Incorporeal undead


Rules Questions


A few tactical questions for dealing with incorporeal undead:

1- Do cure spells (and other spells that use positive energy) do full damage against incorporeal undead? I'm not sure if they are considered to "channel positive energy" or not. To me it seems that if the cleric ability to channel energy does full damage cure spells should too.

2- Some spells list part of the damage as being "divine" (like flame strike) or deal extra damage against undead (like searing light). Do these spells still deal half damage?

3- Can an incorporeal creature be targeted by telekinesis?

4- Can incorporeal creatures be grappled by other incorporeal creatures or creatures made of force.

5- Is it possible to use a spell like "teleport" or "plane shift" to send an incorporeal creature away? I was thinking of using plane shift to send a ghost to hell, plane of positive energy, or plane of fire.

6- If you are under the effect of a polymorph spell and have natural attacks in your new form, do those attacks count as "magical"?

7- Do elemental or celestial creatures count as "magical"? I would think that at least a fire elemental would.

8- Do abilities like "Smite evil" only deal half damage?


Notabrick wrote:
1- Do cure spells (and other spells that use positive energy) do full damage against incorporeal undead?

I don't think so. Incorporeal specifies "except for channel energy" not positive energy.

Notabrick wrote:


2- Some spells list part of the damage as being "divine" (like flame strike) or deal extra damage against undead (like searing light). Do these spells still deal half damage?

Without anything saying otherwise, yes.

Notabrick wrote:
3- Can an incorporeal creature be targeted by telekinesis?

Targeted yes, but I don't think it will have any effect. Telekinesis says "You move objects or creatures by concentrating on them" while Incorporeal creatures "cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions."

Notabrick wrote:
4- Can incorporeal creatures be grappled by other incorporeal creatures or creatures made of force.

"Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled."

Notabrick wrote:
5- Is it possible to use a spell like "teleport" or "plane shift" to send an incorporeal creature away?

Teleport, Target: you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures

Plane Shift, erm, don't know. I could see an argument both ways. I would probably allow it.

Notabrick wrote:
6- If you are under the effect of a polymorph spell and have natural attacks in your new form, do those attacks count as "magical"?

Not if the new form's attacks are normally not magical. (IE: turn into a bear, your claws are not magic)

Notabrick wrote:
7- Do elemental or celestial creatures count as "magical"? I would think that at least a fire elemental would.

Damage Reduction: "Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons... Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

Elementals don't have DR/Magic, so their natural attacks don't strike as magic weapons. Same with creatures that have the celestial template.

Notabrick wrote:
8- Do abilities like "Smite evil" only deal half damage?

Yes, assuming the smite attacks are made with a magical weapon. Smite Evil bypasses DR, not incorporeal.


1- Under the description of "Cure light wounds" it says " you channel positive energy that cures.." Does that count as channeling energy?

2 & 3 - Thanks!

4- Using the same logic, it would seem that incorporeal creatures pass through one another as easily as they pass through physical objects since they are unable to prevent each other from moving.

5, 6 & 7 Thanks!

8- Smite evil is a "supernatural ability" and it says that incorporeal creatures can be effected by supernatural abilities since they are considered magical.


Notabrick wrote:
1- Under the description of "Cure light wounds" it says " you channel positive energy that cures.." Does that count as channeling energy?

When it specifies "channel energy" I believe that is referring to the class ability of the same name.

Notabrick wrote:
4- Using the same logic, it would seem that incorporeal creatures pass through one another as easily as they pass through physical objects since they are unable to prevent each other from moving.

I don't see why not, assuming they're not attacking each other.

Notabrick wrote:
8- Smite evil is a "supernatural ability" and it says that incorporeal creatures can be effected by supernatural abilities since they are considered magical.

While the Paladin cannot activate his Smite Evil ability in an antimagic aura, I don't think it makes his attacks magical/supernatural, it just grants them a bonus.

Either way, it would not grant full damage. It could be argued that a nonmagical weapon being wielded by a smiting paladin would be able to affect an incorporeal creature since the weapon is under the effect of a supernatural ability, or by thinking of the incorporeal creature as having DR */magic or something. I'm not fully convinced, though.

Sovereign Court

#1 Cure spells I would allow as a touch attack, but they have take half damage (and get a save) as they are a corporeal source of damage.

#5 those spells are still from a corporeal source so there's a 50% chance it doesn't work even if you make the touch and it fails the save.

Don't forget Holy Water can be splashed on incorporeal creatures as a touch attack for 2d4 points of damage.

--Vrocky Horror


King of Vrock wrote:
Don't forget Holy Water can be splashed on incorporeal creatures as a touch attack for 2d4 points of damage.

Adjacent only, Ranged touch, no AoO.

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