RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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or the classic "I now ask all the questions on your page that we have not yet asked... cause my character is much better at this and knows more than I do."
Ha! I've never encountered this one before. Might have to try it. ;)
Personally, I've never had an issue with the mission briefings. I mean, gathering a group of unrelated Pathfinders for a mission is kind of the Society's standard operating procedure, so I would presume that any given Pathfinder (even a freshy, seeing as they had to complete some level of training before their first assignment) would accept the group of strangers assigned to the same mission as being the norm, with no explanation needed.
The thing that does baffle me, though, is how I'm never sure when or how the PCs receive their faction mission papers. Does a separate party of errand-boys descend upon the the PCs the minute they step out of the Grand Lodge (while everyone somehow continues to presume that all the faction-y stuff is covert)? And how the frick did all our faction heads know where we were going before we did?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My suggestion is to treat the introduction (and any read-aloud text) as an example of what to say, and paraphrase it however you feel works best for your style of GMing.
For the briefing just make sure:
One thing you might consider is the possibility of making hand-outs in the style of a mission brief which is handed to the players when they come into the room.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My problem is when I'm on the other side, when I'm the player and the DM says "Any Questions" and guards that info like it's under lock and key and I need the Disable Device roll to get it. No, that's not right, I need to find the spot, point at it and say "I make a Knowledge Nobility roll to see if I know what color socks the Paracountesses last vict... ah, guest had on." Please! I need to know this, it helps UNDERSTAND the mod, even if I don't need it to PLAY.
I sympathize. Often after a mission briefing the GM says "Any Questions", and I have nothing beyond a blank stare for her.
Often GMs try to run the module fairly literally and question/ answer sessions have fairly specific questions in them. Perhaps the questions in scenarios should be more general, or just broken down into general categories.
"If the players ask about potential threats..."
"If the players ask about potential allies..."
The problem with that is it eventually leads to generic formula based roleplay as the players figure out the formula. I think perhaps the solution is to just put everything relevant in the briefing and skip the questions entirely :D
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I never liked the idea of GMs passing out the secret missions as part of pre-game prepwork, before stitting down and giving the VC's presentation at the very start.
Sure it gets stuff out of the way, but just seems so very wrong in character that the secret societies are so all-knowing that they not only know all about what missions a PC is doing before a VC can even brief them.. they know it with such lead time that they have time to A) Decide how they feel the VCs mission offers the secret faction opportunities, B) Decide which opportunities they want to task the PC with, and C) make all the necessary arrangements for to prep the faction mission, to include find and brief the PC.
All of this before a PC can even hear 'oh hey, the VC wants to see you guys in the Briefing Room.'
So anyway, not only does it imo suspend disbelief, it also often is difficult to even understand the secret mission until you've had the context of seeing what the public pathfinder mission is. I feel so strongly about it that when I play, I don't even bother reading the slip of paper until after getting through the VC briefing.
I feel all clever and righteous about 'preserving the roleplaying experience' by bucking what I saw as merely a sloppy GM habit born of convenience.
Then comes my discovery in a scenario (won't be named to prevent spoilers) where the secret mission gives credit for doing something during the frikking VC briefing!
When I GM this one I'll have to do that 'sloppy, suspension-of-disbelief-ruining', common practice of doling out secret missions prior to revealing the public missions.
Sigh. I'll probably end up becoming one of those 'sloppy, suspension-of-disbelief-ruining' GMs, myeself :}
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I never liked the idea of GMs passing out the secret missions as part of pre-game prepwork, before stitting down and giving the VC's presentation at the very start.
Sure it gets stuff out of the way, but just seems so very wrong in character that the secret societies are so all-knowing that they not only know all about what missions a PC is doing before a VC can even brief them.. they know it with such lead time that they have time to A) Decide how they feel the VCs mission offers the secret faction opportunities, B) Decide which opportunities they want to task the PC with, and C) make all the necessary arrangements for to prep the faction mission, to include find and brief the PC.
All of this before a PC can even hear 'oh hey, the VC wants to see you guys in the Briefing Room.'
So anyway, not only does it imo suspend disbelief, it also often is difficult to even understand the secret mission until you've had the context of seeing what the public pathfinder mission is. I feel so strongly about it that when I play, I don't even bother reading the slip of paper until after getting through the VC briefing.
I feel all clever and righteous about 'preserving the roleplaying experience' by bucking what I saw as merely a sloppy GM habit born of convenience.
Then comes my discovery in a scenario (won't be named to prevent spoilers) where the secret mission gives credit for doing something during the frikking VC briefing!
When I GM this one I'll have to do that 'sloppy, suspension-of-disbelief-ruining', common practice of doling out secret missions prior to revealing the public missions.
Sigh. I'll probably end up becoming one of those 'sloppy, suspension-of-disbelief-ruining' GMs, myeself :}
I personally have done the faction handouts both ways. If the slot has started nicely on time, I tend to have quick roleplay encounters where the faction missions are got to the players. A quick overview;
Andoran - a halfling or a servant either 'reverse pickpockets' the PC or 'accidentally' runs into them and offers them the 'scroll they dropped'. I've also done the shoe-shine urchin slipping a bit of paper under the Andoran's boot and tipping them the wink.
Cheliax - Sometimes an imp appears with a scroll that's almost more than they can carry. I've also started having a wolf-like creature with human hands in place of paws and a human head pad out of a nearby alley and offer them their mission.
Osirion - Something spookily mystical, generally. My favourite was having a small sarcophagus shaped like a cat turn to the PC and say 'Open me'. They found their mission inside...along with a mummified cat.
Qadira - Something actually spy-like. An exchange of code phrases, asking them to inspect a particular type of rug and finding the mission slipped into it, etc.
Taldor - An invitation to a party, bill for the dry cleaning, the balance of that debt that they owed you. Something up-front, but masking the true intent of the meeting.
I'm afraid I've not really run enough with the new factions to have a framework for them yet.
I will also counter this by saying that if I'm tight on time, the cool ways in which people receive their missions are the first thing to go. The last con I was at I just had to hand them round and jump right in. It happens, and that's unfoirtunate but there isn't much you can do.
And yeah, I also winced a bit when I ran the scenario where the mission is during the VC briefing. Talk about being thrown in at the deep end!
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My biggest issue with the mission briefings is that too many of them start by dragging you out of bed in the middle of the night to attend an emergency briefing for a mission that they have known about for days. Frequently there is a ship waiting at the docks which is expecting you. If they knew to get the ship's crew ready, why didn't they bother to tell you before 2:00 AM? It prevents last minute shopping as well as trips to the library or bars to gather additional information about the people and places involved.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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My biggest issue with the mission briefings is that too many of them start by dragging you out of bed in the middle of the night to attend an emergency briefing for a mission that they have known about for days. Frequently there is a ship waiting at the docks which is expecting you. If they knew to get the ship's crew ready, why didn't they bother to tell you before 2:00 AM? It prevents last minute shopping as well as trips to the library or bars to gather additional information about the people and places involved.
So just announce you're going back to bed and flip Valsin the bird on the way out. ;)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Ninjaiquana,
I do something similar. I ask players what their character's day jobs are, and I encourage them to explain how they get their mission through that. For example, one PC was a librarian for the Grand Lodge. He would get his faction mission between pages 102 and 103. A street peddler had a customer who would pay for a fish with five copper pieces which gave him his mission through a magic mouth. And so on.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Ninjaiquana,
I do something similar. I ask players what their character's day jobs are, and I encourage them to explain how they get their mission through that. For example, one PC was a librarian for the Grand Lodge. He would get his faction mission between pages 102 and 103. A street peddler had a customer who would pay for a fish with five copper pieces which gave him his mission through a magic mouth. And so on.
So my baker notices the taste of burned parchment in his cake, realizes he must have been slipped a mission note and missed it, and then runs off to his faction head to ask what it was.
Or something like that.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Or something like that.
(nods) Something like that. Maybe there's a note in one of his bags of flour. Or a customer accidentally leaves a package at the counter when buying a dozen scones.
I wouldn't use a written note in a cake, in any case; that's what icing is for. Or, that's another great use for a magic mouth.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I wouldn't use a written note in a cake, in any case; that's what icing is for. Or, that's another great use for a magic mouth.
Customer: Um, Cledwyn, sir? My waffle is... asking for you.
Cledwyn: Oh! Must be important. Thanks, your next one's on the house!
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I wouldn't use a written note in a cake, in any case; that's what icing is for. Or, that's another great use for a magic mouth.Customer: Um, Cledwyn, sir? My waffle is... asking for you.
Cledwyn: Oh! Must be important. Thanks, your next one's on the house!
Could be a problem for my Concert Hall owning bard...
Lady Morilla: "Ah, excellent! I see you got our message."
Luther: "Well, yes..but isn't singing my faction mission instead of the aria kind of a breach of secrecy? Not to mention it simply ruined the second act!"
Come to thing of it, that's something I could see the late Baron Dalsine doing, twerp that he was.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm getting visions of Get Smart (Agent 86), in a PFS setting.... and the Cone of Secrets.
I've been waiting for inspiration to strike for a new character. Thank you, sir...
To speak to the original post:
Well, after a brief aside...I have one player who, after everyone has asked a few questions upon getting the briefing, raises his hand, adopts a very serious mien, and says, "Is there anything else we need to know?" Makes me laugh every time, and I usually give them the remainder of the information under "possible questions."
Back on task.
I agree with what Ogre said. I think most of that information can be given out during role playing. The exact question does not need to be asked, and there is zero reason for a VC to hold back information that may save the party. For instance, in one module you end up on the top of a mountain in an arctic environment. Why in the world would the VC not prepare his team for that just because they didn't ask about it?
Also, someone mentioned the timing on faction missions. I never hand out missions before the briefing. I always give them out as they prepare for the task. Taldorans will often get them along with a farewell toast from fellow Taldorans. Andorans will have some waif approach them in the street and hand them a slip of paper with a heartfelt, "For Freeedom!" Chelaxians will receive some present from the Paracountess. And so on...
I would suggest that these parts of the adventure are where the GM can make his mark. Conform each adventure's opening to your own style, much like Dream Daemon did. People will remember you for it, and you will acquire your own set of "fans."
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Drogon - are you one of my judges? it sounds like you judge for my son and I, except we normally will say "Is there anything else we forgot to ask about?"
Dunno. I have a few father/son teams in the store. Do you play in Denver? I don't recognize your character names.
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In many ways Role Playing takes a back seat because of time restraints. The way the pathfinder breifings seems to be set up is to encourage people to ask questions and use their knowledge skills. Otherwise it seems people just want to participate in the battles, find their faction mission, and dam the rest.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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In many ways Role Playing takes a back seat because of time restraints. The way the pathfinder breifings seems to be set up is to encourage people to ask questions and use their knowledge skills. Otherwise it seems people just want to participate in the battles, find their faction mission, and dam the rest.
Very true. This is why GMs should bully this section of the modules into line, and make it matter. It can be handled pretty quick, when done correctly, and time is saved by punting the question and answer/dice rolling aspects.
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In many ways Role Playing takes a back seat because of time restraints. The way the pathfinder breifings seems to be set up is to encourage people to ask questions and use their knowledge skills. Otherwise it seems people just want to participate in the battles, find their faction mission, and dam the rest.
Not all PFS play is at CONs. My longest ever briefing session took 1 1/2 hours of heavy role-play. It was Slave pits of Absalom and a mainly roleplaying group.
It stared with an abrasive Venture Captain that i played as written - when nobody had any questions they got dismissed quickly. Only to find out they had no clue what to do (partly due to chatter at the table) and in character didn't dare to go back to the VC.What followed was more than one hour of roleplaying - moving around Absalom with the bits of partial knowledge they pieced together to hope they could manage to find out what to do without going back to the VC. I nearly had them boarding a ship to Cheliax (and this would have been game over).
I loved it when they finally came back to the Venture Captain and she asked - have you done the job? They got a good telling down - several hours had passed - and I remind them at every act when they arrived too late - well - you wasted a few hours wandering the streets. Seems you are too late again.
It went very smoothly from there onwards.
I wouldn't be able to do that at a Con - but I didn't feel I should go soft on them just because nobody had paid attention.
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In case anybody cares, I've uploaded what I've done to Google Docs. Again, it's very simple, but the players seem to like it.
However, because I'm an over-preparer, I don't think I would be successful in running a scenario cold, so that is a definite weak spot for me.
Most excellent - I'll be using this idea immediately.
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We are then told we have "an hour" to do any last minute shopping. I ask about "Gather Info" rolls (Kn-local or Diplom) and am told there is no time for that. I think I'm prepared at that point (did all my shopping already), and say "I'm ready to go and will wait here for everyone else to get back from shopping then" at which point I am told that unless I go shopping I do not recieve my Faction Mission brief (I personally know that a friend of mine at the table is the same faction, so this is not likely to be a problem... but that's meta-gaming... and the judge did not know that, so I didn't get that little slip of paper).
This annoys me .. I don't believe there is anything in the rules that states that a player has to go shopping, or fullfill criteria X before getting their faction mission. While it can be a nice flavor component it's not necessary .. it should have been easy for your faction contact to find you leaning up against a wall and slip your mission in your back pocket.
Have you talked to the organizer for this game to ensure that the judge is spoken to about this kind of thing? They may not realize that there are issues with what they are doing.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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So back to the original post.
Why can't Mission Briefing be more ... realistic? or more like the movies? Or at least more FUN?
Can we as Judges "fix" this? and do you have any ideas that would help?
Well, a lot of the scenario briefs are just that - brief. They're light on description, detail and color, and it's the judges responsibility to have prepared the scenario to know what details they should add and what points they should emphasize. Of course, if the judge was running the game on the spot (with no prep), then he's hardly to blame for missing somethings. I've been found guilty of mulling over some key plot point and then telling my PCs something along the lines of "actually, there was one more thing the VC said to you before you left..."
Ultimately, IMO, judges should feel free to use the text-blurbs as a "go-to" but not as what you are required to read. I've found that it's more interesting to get the message across through a series of Q&A with the party (i.e.: "you there, pathfinder, what do you know about the undead?") as I present the scenario, allowing them to make knowledge checks mid mission briefing. Any diplomacy checks made can easily be flavored as "they asked other pathfinders around the lodge before suiting up," so I don't require my PCs to "go shopping." If they are pressed for time, there is at least one game where it explicitly says "do not let the PCs make gather info checks, they don't have the time," then they don't get to make the lengthier checks. But such cases rarely come up.
We are then told we have "an hour" to do any last minute shopping. I ask about "Gather Info" rolls (Kn-local or Diplom) and am told there is no time for that. I think I'm prepared at that point (did all my shopping already), and say "I'm ready to go and will wait here for everyone else to get back from shopping then" at which point I am told that unless I go shopping I do not recieve my Faction Mission brief (I personally know that a friend of mine at the table is the same faction, so this is not likely to be a problem... but that's meta-gaming... and the judge did not know that, so I didn't get that little slip of paper).
This annoys me .. I don't believe there is anything in the rules that states that a player has to go shopping, or fullfill criteria X before getting their faction mission. While it can be a nice flavor component it's not necessary .. it should have been easy for your faction contact to find you leaning up against a wall and slip your mission in your back pocket.
Have you talked to the organizer for this game to ensure that the judge is spoken to about this kind of thing? They may not realize that there are issues with what they are doing.
Yeah, this part is a bit odder. Handing out faction handouts is never really discussed in detail from a "rules perspective." My understanding is that they PCs just need to have them before the "actual" game starts. If your judge flavors it up by saying while your shopping person X gives it to you, then fine. But if you don't go shopping he should just change his plan, and state that person X runs up in a huff to you while you're waiting.
"Oh jeez, *pant* there you are! I've been looking all over! Here's the thing about the thing"I don't think there's anything you can do as a player to prevent you from getting a handout at the start of the game (unless you're switching your faction perhaps?).
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Having run this one myself and adapted the introduction slightly, I strongly suspect that it is
One thing to note is that each adventure introduces the box text with "Read or paraphrase the following to get the adventure underway," with the bolded text being my emphasis. A GM can certainly adapt intro text to best suit the group (s)he's with, but the push for speed often telegraphs an important concept: control of information.
For adventures given by Amara Li (Bard 10), for example, the players might just want her to make the introductory knowledge checks for them. When there is a rush to begin the adventure, it gives the Venture-Captain an excuse not to give away all of the upcoming scenario information to a 2nd level party. When adapting a scenario's intro text, make sure that some degree of this "no freebies" concept is preserved. Information not covered in these introductory knowledge checks or in the Venture-Captain's question and answer session is probably not information that the players should be starting with.
I tend to give the Venture-Captain an excuse not to stick around. "I do admit that I am pressed for time, so take a little time to research the trials ahead. I must pursue parallel business of no less importance here in Goka. In parting, I would simply recommend..."
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Keep in mind, many briefings occur in a Pathfinder Lodge - often the Grand Lodge in Absalom. There's no reason for characters to not stop by the library and ask good old Thaddeus Lamplighter, Pathfinder Chronicler, for some background. In fact, I've started building this into my briefings, and handing out a "Take Ten" sheet of background knowledge. Remember, anyone can do Knowledge checks untrained if the DC is 10 or less, and with a big library that's something like +8 on their roll, so I just give it to them. And sometimes if the information is critical, I give them the higher-DC information as well. No one ever complains that they had too much information going into a scenario!
I have a bunch of sheets like Dream Daemon's as well, here are the ones on Google Docs already:
#3-07 Echoes of the Overwatched
#0-06 Black Waters - rule cheat sheet
#0-51 & #0-52 City of Strangers - Kaer Maga backgrounder
#3-09 Quest for Perfection Part 1
#3-11 Quest for Perfection Part 2
#1-33 Asssault on the Kingdom of the Impossible
I'll upload more when I have a minute.
(And yes, Thaddeus Lamplighter is my character, Cleric-6 (of Shelyn)/Pathfinder Chronicler-2, almost all with GM credits. I built him specifically to have an in-game persona to use to hand out briefing information to players.)
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For once I would like get a briefing kind of like in the movies.
For my home game, I do mission briefings exactly as you state in your examples.
Yes, they're more interesting and realistic. They're interactive and I get to showcase the personalities of the mission briefer. And often they're a lot of fun in their own right and custom made.
The PROBLEM with these custom mission briefings, is that they take a long time, sometimes as long as 20-30 minutes. Home games can go overtime, when you're in a little 4 hour time slot, that just won't do and your time is better spent on the scenario. And sometimes it goes on too long and it becomes a drag before you know it. It's really hard to find a balance and I'm still working on it.
I agree, mission handouts are helpful! I recommend all GMs create them for their players. It helps a lot if people are late, people weren't paying attention, and to summarize what the PCs are meant to do. This is especially important with complex missions, or missions with many names.
I let my players make all relevant skill (knowledge) checks without them having to ask. I figure if the PC knows relevant information about the location or NPCs, he either knows it or he doesn't, and if he does know information it makes sense to tell the player about it. :)
I also agree, some of the questions that are supposed to be asked by the PCs should probably be included in the initial mission briefing. It makes sense that important details would be covered by the initial mission briefing. I also think that would reduce word count.
I think they put additional information in question format, so that the mission briefing is a little more interactive and the players eyes don't glaze over from a long speech from the GM.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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wow... got it in two. it was the Gods one.Can you give us a hint as to the scenario? That way we can identify whether it's a scenario problem or a Judge problem?Guess one: To Scale the Dragon
Guess two: Among the Gods
Yea, I'm pretty awesome. But realistically, I ran Among the Gods a few weeks ago and felt similarly that the motivations presented to the PCs are lacking. I lied to them and hinted that another other shadow group (Aspis perhaps) were after the same thing that the PCs were after, which spurned them on in a race-like fashion. Even though they never crossed paths with said shadow group, it helped provide the catalyst for the actual plot.