I couldn't remember if you had said this before or not, but what are you using to make the maps?
maptools. It's a program from rptools and they even produce tutorials to teach you how to do lighting, move objects, duplicate objects and even more advanced things too. You can even use it to run games online through maptools but setting up a server, but I don't know how ot do it and I'm more comfortable just taking pictures of the maps and putting them online.
It also had token tools which is what I used to grab your avatars and then pull a copy into the token tools winow to make you custom tokens just so that you guys can tell who you are apart from one another and the NPCs.
If it's the Kingmaker map, I just basically take the map and black out the areas you havn't been yet if that's what you meant.
Cool, I'm gonna check out rptools, it seems to do a good job.
I've been meaning to ask; does Oleg have any masterwork armor/shields? I intend to buy both sometime in the future.
Cool, I'm gonna check out rptools, it seems to do a good job.
Yeah and some of those maps I don't even try. there's loads of places to download images for monsters and ect.
I've been meaning to ask; does Oleg have any masterwork armor/shields? I intend to buy both sometime in the future.
You can special order them and he'll have them for you next week, provided you have the money of course.
Just looking for a little insight on multiclassing. I'm torn between rogue and inquisitor for later levels. I know I'll stick with ranger for at least 6 levels but I don't quite know where to go from there. Either would work well enough with Ganit's character as far as I'm concerned. I've never played an inquisitor but rogue has always been a blast. Suggestions, team?
I don't know much about it, but I think Inquisitor as a caster-ish class isn't very good for multiclassing. Rogue looks awesome, but I think for a ranged character the Sneak Attack will be very difficult to pull off beyond the first round of combat.
If you go rogue, I think you should go for at least 4 levels (you only lose 1 BAB and gets 2 rogue talents). One more level will net you +1d6 SA but -1 BAB, though.
I myself am struggling with this issue. I always envisioned this character as a 1st level bard going cavalier all the way, but am thinking about going straight bard or at least Bard X/Cavalier 1 for the cavalier Mount and skills. Any suggestions?
Every time I start planning out a character to multiclass I end up tweaking things here and tweaking things there, and end up with a base class for 19 or 20 levels and maybe a dip into another class for 1 level.
As easy as it is to multiclass in Pathfinder, the negatives to your main class almost always seem to outweigh the benefits of the secondary class.
That said, I think it's all about the roleplaying anyway, and if your character wants to do rogue things, by all means, they should be able to :).
@ ganit I dont know how you would justify being an inquisitor anyways but theres that for rouge while it could work taking rouge levels just to get sneak attack damage kinda boring
@Browyn personally? I like the idea of battle herald and your character really seems to fit a bard cavalier either way either one level of bard or multiple seems fine by me your character is a blast to read about.
Cambyl that's probably the biggest thing I want from multiclassing to rogue. I played Ganit under the trapper archetype for a bit but the sacrifices just seemed a bit steep. I'll prolly just take a little dip into rogue for some skill points and the fun sneaky stuff.
Tholamin - I was mostly interested in the witch hunter archetype from UC and so it isn't a religion dependent thing. It just stinks that they lose monster lore which is a major hook for me. It's also not unheard of to have characters devoted to ideals rather than a deity so that was my other option.
Cambyl have you taken a look at the prestige class Chevalier? Looks like it would fit your character perfectly - at least roleplay wise.
Heh, I had not seen that one, but it does fit my character pretty well :)
It's something to keep in mind for sure.
lol u all have so many choices to make at future levels. i like the idea of Bronwyn multiclassing as equal parts Bard and Cavalier. However, I have the easy-hard job of simply going straight Summoner. every level makes Drakor stronger and bigger and that's all i'm rly going for. lolz well whatever u guys decide it should be fun.
I just saw the Samurai class and it screamed Swaney - at least the philosophy and details of it... not the actual Eastern gidup they got goin on. I know what class I am changing to at level 2 that is unless DM Aron lets me change my character around like he did for Cambyl =)
DM Aron, do you allow for 1 retraining of a skill, feat, etc when we level? My local DM allows for it and it helps a bunch since you never know how useless a skill or feat may be until you play it out. It is no fun picking something that is horrible. Plus it makes some sense for roleplaying because people always forget and learn new things.
Yeah he allowed it cause he wasnt doing anything but heal and was switching so he could heal more effectively. Also that retraining is a class skill for fighters why would it be allowed for everyone? plus allowing a class switch once is fine but if we start down this slippery slope soon everyone will just want to switch over to something else. Plus think of your back-story man your a regimental fighter and now your a regimental samurai jeeze man sorry just saying ill abide by whatever gm allows
Yeah he allowed it cause he wasnt doing anything but heal and was switching so he could heal more effectively. Also that retraining is a class skill for fighters why would it be allowed for everyone? plus allowing a class switch once is fine but if we start down this slippery slope soon everyone will just want to switch over to something else. Plus think of your back-story man your a regimental fighter and now your a regimental samurai jeeze man sorry just saying ill abide by whatever gm allows
I only allowed Cambyl's chance because he REALLY wanted the change and it was early in the game. I'm generous that way as some DMs would've disallowed Cambyl from changing and forcing him to stay as an Oracle, wherehe had felt that he was useless as he couldn't channel energy like a cleric to give healing to the party in desperate situations.
I don't allow these things too often though as tholamin rightfully said, if you let people go mad with changes then one moment someone's a fighter, the next a barbarian the next a different kind of fighter and it just goes insane and out of control.
The Samurai, as peole have said is kind of a carbon-copy of the Cavaler. Also, I can't remember if I allowed UC or not, but I certainly don't want to allow a switching of feats and skills in the way you described. It sounds pretty broken if you ask me.
Being a fighter you get a large selection of feats no one else can get. things that branch off from Weapon focus like Weapon Specialisation or stuff that branches off of Shield Focus.
Samurai are more Eastern with tradition and as I said, they're kind of a copy of Cavaler. Cambyl it was understandable because his backstory was very easily alterable and the change in character class wouldn't be so jarring, however changing from a Fighter to a Samurai is quite jarring and hard to fit into the group. Sorry I just don't feel comfortable about that change and I think Swaney fits in perfectly as a Fighter, not ot mention he's great at combat.
@Sir Bron- It's your choice, but again, you can keep going down the arcane duelist route which can go very well with your story, especially with Oratory as being a inspiring speech and Cavalar would suit well too as your character might want to take on a more realistic look of a noble in combat, but it's your decision.
I'm pretty sure a fighter can exchange his feats after level 4. It would only be one at a time though.
Bron - Arcane duelist is a pretty neat class. If you plan to multiclass out of it you may want to wait until about level 6. Blade thirst is sure to be helpful in a game where equipment is going to be so expensive and loot is cut 6 ways. The arcane bond will also give you a chance to boost your equipment and close the gap from the 3/4 BAB.
bwahahahahaha! i cannot believe Zayne got that hit lolz. XD lolz sorry little victory for the guy with the LEAST amount of combat experiance.
No need to jump down my throat fellas.
DM Aron, sounds like you are extremely opposed to the 1 aspect change (feat, skill, whatever) when we level (pending DM approval) so I wont bother explaining it further.
You don't have to sell me on the fighter or my character. A simple 'no' would have sufficed. I'm not here to cause trouble. I was just excited to see a re-working of the cavalier that wasn't horrible, and to be honest, would have been something I would have really considered playing if it had been released to the PFSRD when we started. I apologize that my excitement started so much discontent.
Also, I think I am just a bit sore on how mounted combat is working at the moment. Horses are large creatures. They take up 10ft of space - meaning 4 squares in combat situations because you need to manuever them. I'm not sure if you intentionally house-ruled that they can fit within a 5 foot square or not, but it would have been nice to know sooner.
Blade thirst is sure to be helpful in a game where equipment is going to be so expensive and loot is cut 6 ways. The arcane bond will also give you a chance to boost your equipment and close the gap from the 3/4 BAB.
Actually the loot thing you won't have to worry about as I have increased all tresure by 50%. For instance, Happ's bow was origonally just a masterwork longbow. Not composite with +2 str bonus. Also. The board quests have been increased too. So it shouldn't be a problem.
No need to jump down my throat fellas.
DM Aron, sounds like you are extremely opposed to the 1 aspect change (feat, skill, whatever) when we level (pending DM approval) so I wont bother explaining it further.
Sorry, sorry. I've just been having a really exhausting week and I accidently blew off my frustraition in a rant.
The course I'm on is basically, as the saying goes "Teaching your grandmother how to suck eggs" meaning, it's telling me stuff that the last 3 courses I've taken have told me so I flew a bit off the handle.
Now I look back Cavaler wouldn't but that much of a change actually. They're usually loyal to the leaders like Lukan clearly shows in his Lawful way of acting. I still see Samurai as a more eastern thing, but to be honest I haven't really checked it out myself.
Again, sorry if you felt like I exploded then. We're not even that deep into the game so I guess it's alright, though my problem is the whole TWF thing changing which is what I had assumed and jumped the gun on.
Ok heres my thing I hate this eastern mixing s@*~ sorry I gotta rant ninja and samurai s@&+ is wasted in my opinion, switching from fighter to cavalier great but freaking samurai? If you want to be a samurai lukan go join a jade regent AP thats what its meant for. I was so glad when I read this recruitment that we weren't allowing UC and thats why me and my brother applied. S~!@ I might as well ask hey can I switch my class totally? Like say Magus? I mean aint that far off magic magic. I mean hell why dont we all switch over Im tired of this why cant we just make a character and actually work with it. If you wanted to play samurai you should've waited till it was out and joined a game then.
Thanks Aron for clearing that whole phrase up for me. I always thought it was disturbing and/or suggestive and I couldn't afford to let my girlfriend find "grandmother suck eggs" in my google history so a super high-five to you for that.
Most games I've played have allowed characters a grace period to touch up or finalize their characters. Basically by the third session you'd better be happy with you PC or wait for some catastrophe to roll up a new one. Granted these were home games with a limited amount of available players and sessions are something that actually exist so the PbP standards don't apply. So if people aren't entirely happy with the mechanics of their PC's they should totally have the right to ask for permission to as long as the changes are reasonable.
I agree with Tholamin about not having Ninja/Samurai in this game, although they do look fun :).
Obviously, I have no issue if someone wants to change, and Aron is ok with it, although I wouldn't have wanted my change to cause stress for other people in the game. I would have just multiclassed in the first place except Oracle has huge drawbacks from lvl 1 that only go away at higher levels, so having only one level is all bad :).
If I were to suggest a course for Lukan, it would be to keep the first level of fighter, as that will not hurt anything about being a cavalier, and just start Cavalier at lvl 2... I think we can work this in storywise pretty well too :).
I do think we should put the time/money into getting our horses battle trained, as well as use the large size for when we are mounted, just so it's not confusing. I'm not sure if that makes the maps harder to do?
Ok heres my thing I hate this eastern mixing s@@# sorry I gotta rant ninja and samurai s%&* is wasted in my opinion, switching from fighter to cavalier great but freaking samurai? If you want to be a samurai lukan go join a jade regent AP thats what its meant for. I was so glad when I read this recruitment that we weren't allowing UC and thats why me and my brother applied. S@%* I might as well ask hey can I switch my class totally? Like say Magus? I mean aint that far off magic magic. I mean hell why dont we all switch over Im tired of this why cant we just make a character and actually work with it. If you wanted to play samurai you should've waited till it was out and joined a game then.
I don't know where this is comming from, but I do not appreciate it. You were downright disrespectful and condescending. You need to read and understand what people write, and if you have an issue with what was written then respond in a constructive and respectful manner. Either the samurai was not released when I joined this game - or I did not see it - which I said earlier. While I understand you have a personal opinion about mixing East vs. West, this is a fantasy game. It is about having fun and being 'creative'. The class description mentions nothing about the samurai originating from a specific region. The description is very generic, and I assume it is for the purpose of being able to introduce a character who has samurai values into any campaign.
Anyways. lol, Ganit, I hate google search history. I think Dane Cook did a bit on it in one of his routines. I couldn't have explained the mechanics change system better - you did a great job. I would think we were around the 2nd or 3rd session in this game if it were played over a table top.
Cambyl, I'm glad you were able to make the changes you need to. Being a first level Oracle and multiclassing would hurt immensly. I think you are right about the cavalier - the ability to hand out teamwork feats to a group of six would be awesome. Then again, I wouldn't want to take anything away from Bronwyn. My decision to go cavalier would reside with where he wants to go with his character.
DM Aron, I apologize again for any aches and pains I may be causing you. I'm really enjoying the game so far, and I was just a little upset with how the mechanics were working out. Like Ganit said, its tough to tell how things will play out at first.
I too, am enjoying how things are going immensely, and I hope everyone doesn't take things too seriously and remembers to have fun :)
I like all the characters in the group and look forward to every post that comes.
I don't know much about it, but I think Inquisitor as a caster-ish class isn't very good for multiclassing. Rogue looks awesome, but I think for a ranged character the Sneak Attack will be very difficult to pull off beyond the first round of combat.
If you go rogue, I think you should go for at least 4 levels (you only lose 1 BAB and gets 2 rogue talents). One more level will net you +1d6 SA but -1 BAB, though.
I myself am struggling with this issue. I always envisioned this character as a 1st level bard going cavalier all the way, but am thinking about going straight bard or at least Bard X/Cavalier 1 for the cavalier Mount and skills. Any suggestions?
Meta-gaming is fun =)
I took a quick look at your sheet and noticed your charisma is super high. I think it would be better if you went straight bard. You would reap the monst benefits doing this. The spells alone are worth it. I'm not sure if going cavalier for the mount would be worth it. The mount is slightly weaker than a heavy warhorse at level 1.
Hehe, I'm not trying to convince you to ditch cavalier so I can shamelessly take it =P Nope, sure ain't.
By the way, I took a look at the Battle Herald prestige class. That is such an awesome prestige class. Even though Lukan has 8 charisma, I think he might start to head down that path =). It just fits his character design so well. Charisma is for the duration of things anyway, and his CHA can be boosted magically. The only ochie moment would be when he multiclasses into a bard for a level - and I think the performances wouldn't stack? Hehehe, that would be really fun to roleplay. I can see Sir Raslov teaching swaney how to be a bard in order for him to be a better leader. - Grooming Lukan for a leadership position once the kingdom is founded.
EDIT: Actually now that I looked further into it, your bard would make an awesome battle herald with 1 dip in cavalier. The bonus from your bard levels to inspire courage would be incredible. You could give the group DR 4/- and plenty of saves at +4. Not to mention full BAB and 2 good saves. Your character would be awesome as 1Cav/9Bard/10BattleHerald. I concede to you, oh great leader. I think Lukan will be the one teaching Bronwyn about soldiering =).
On the mounted vs not mounted issue, I'm ok with a simplified version of mounted combat for now.
If we go with how we've played so far, we could say that the horses are trained enough to not be frightened in combat, but not enough to attack themselves, or provide us the bonuses while mounted. When we train them up, that would be the case.
As for the size we take up while mounted, My only question is if it's difficult to do on the map software or not. If so, I'm ok with making it as easy as possible for the GM :). If it's not to bad, though, the larger size while mounted would be more realistic.
Just my 2 copper...
On the mounted vs not mounted issue, I'm ok with a simplified version of mounted combat for now.
If we go with how we've played so far, we could say that the horses are trained enough to not be frightened in combat, but not enough to attack themselves, or provide us the bonuses while mounted. When we train them up, that would be the case.
As for the size we take up while mounted, My only question is if it's difficult to do on the map software or not. If so, I'm ok with making it as easy as possible for the GM :). If it's not to bad, though, the larger size while mounted would be more realistic.
Just my 2 copper...
Yeah, I could've made them large, though what I should've done is perception checks to see if you guys notice the Kobolds first, giving you time to unmount and meet them on the battlefrield, so to speak.
Yeah, I could've made them large, though what I should've done is perception checks to see if you guys notice the Kobolds first, giving you time to unmount and meet them on the battlefrield, so to speak.
That would have worked too. :)
So, just to clarify. If we want mounted bonuses (+1 attack) we will need to make ride checks on frightened mounds. If we want to avoid penalties (frightened mount), we need to dismount which we could do if we prepare, or which take a move action.
All, of course, until we train them up to not freak out in combat.
That was me posting, in case anyone was confused :)
Lolz i really was confused i was going back and forth through our past postings going "Who the heck is this guy? Do we have a silent party member? I swear we only had a set number!" then i clicked on the picture and saw his alias XD my bad
So, which direction are we heading?
So, which direction are we heading?
I was about to suggest grid coordinates, but that would still be a bit confusing with a hex map.
Cambyl's plan sounds as good as any. We are headed to (from what I can make out) the hex fourth down, two from the right (southeast of the spider nest). Then up to 3 down, 1 from the right (East of spider nest). Then 2 down along the right edge (East of Bokken's).
Why all the traps now?
So, which direction are we heading?I was about to suggest grid coordinates, but that would still be a bit confusing with a hex map.
Cambyl's plan sounds as good as any. We are headed to (from what I can make out) the hex fourth down, two from the right (southeast of the spider nest). Then up to 3 down, 1 from the right (East of spider nest). Then 2 down along the right edge (East of Bokken's).
I'll wait for a few more members to say they agree, but I assume no one has any problems.
oh yeah plan is fine tholamin is just looking for fey lol
oh yeah plan is fine tholamin is just looking for fey lol
Be careful what you wish for *grins*
Oh come now the fey love me
*famous last words*
DM Aron, will you allow equipment from Paizo published sourcebooks? The "Elves of Golarion"Pathfinder Companion has a bunch of alchemical arrows I would like to build/buy. While on the subject, how do you feel about the Adventurer's Armory?
DM Aron, will you allow equipment from Paizo published sourcebooks? The "Elves of Golarion"Pathfinder Companion has a bunch of alchemical arrows I would like to build/buy. While on the subject, how do you feel about the Adventurer's Armory?
Adventurer's Armory I'm fine with and other source books are fine imo. I'm hoping to buy the one with new traits for all the other races like tieflings and ect. Surprised no one wanted to play one of those races, oh well.
Ok for loot my vote is for if there is a really nice item that makes sense for the character and gm agrees your character forswears the rest of the loot so it can be divided among the rest equally since they do not have access to this one item we have found.
As we are all working together, and that is likely to continue, there are really only two ways to handle items we want to keep, in my humble opinion.
The method Ganit put forth is exactly fair to everyone. We don't lose any money, but people get to keep items they want and there can be no hoarding or anything of the kind. This method results in the total value of all treasure being distributed equally.
The other method I like, is that if someone is going to use an item, they just get it, and we move on as if it wasn't even part of the treasure. They still get a cut of whatever we sell as normal. Whatever they replace with the new item can go into the treasure pool as well. I believe this is also perfectly fair, as no one is ever force to chose between cash they're saving for that new +3 sword Oleg happened to find, and the perfectly useful but not as spiffy ring of deflection we just found that no one else wants to use. This method results in maximized value of treasure kept (as we sell it for only half), but not necessarily equal distribution if people get greedy. It does rely a bit on "well I got the ring of +2 deflection, you can have the amulet of +2 natural armor."
If people care a great deal about the loot they want, I think the first way is best. If people don't care as much, and just want to keep the cool stuff we find we can use, then I think the second is better.
I think I fall into the second category :)
So, for example, using my second method on this last treasure we found... whoever's keeping them, the scroll, and two wands, and book leave the treasure pool. If anyone uses a dagger for their melee, or has one for backup, they can have the MW dagger.
The ring is apparently mundane and not an item for the story, so we can sell that and split it six ways. Tholamin will copy the spells he wants from the book and we can then sell that and split the cash.
Using Ganit's method that we have used so far, and given some made up prices because I do not have them figured out at the moment we would have:
MW dagger 300
Ring 75
Scroll 200
Wand 100
Wand 300
Book 500
The total is 1475 split 6 ways is like 246. That means to keep the dagger you'd have to put 54 gold into the pool so everyone still gets their cut. To keep the two wands and scroll you'd have to put 354 into the pool so people get their cut.
I don't really like that idea, as I'd rather we had the scroll and both wands to help us and don't want to force people to "buy" them.
I suggested my method so that everything gets split equally. Best example would be the party finding a treasure that has a total sales value of 600gp. We split that equally so everyone gets 100gp. "Billy" wants the widget that's worth 5gp so he takes that widget and 95gp, a total value of 100gp. Now "Tommy" wants that extra special pogo that is worth 250gp so he subtracts his share of 100 and is left to pay the remaining 150 out of his own pocket. Names and items are entirely arbitrary.
That method ensures that no one person gets an unfair amount of loot during our adventures. At the moment, Ganit still owes a bit of gold to the rest of you for Happs' Bow. It's not glamorous but it guarantees equal distribution.
I've played most games with Cambyl's system but there always comes a point during looting where we each argue over who gets what. My only issue with it is the room it leaves for discord and debate.
I agree, discord is to be avoided :).
a masterwork dagger, a silver ring worth 75 gp, a scroll of shocking grasp, a wand of burning hands (CL 2, 4 charges), a wand of grease (CL 1, 15 charges) and a wizard's book, mostly decayed but with still some legable spells.
Mwk Dagger - 151gp (302/2= 151)
Silver Ring - 75Scroll of shocking grasp - 12.5gp (25 new)
Wand of Burning Hands, CL 2; 4 Charges - 60gp (1*2*750= 1500. 1500/50= 30. 30x4= 120. 120/2=60)
Wand of Grease,CL 1; 15 Charges - 112.5gp (1*1*750= 750. 750/50= 15. 15*15= 225/2= 112.5)
Spellbook, 5 1st level spells - 25gp(5*10=50. 50/2=25)
Total Sell Value = 436.
Everyone's cut: 436/6= 75.7gp
My last thoughts on the issue.
I'm fine with Ganit's method, particularly as it's simplest to let one person handle all the loot prices and tell us what gold we get and how much we have to give to keep items. If we can agree on that, I'm fine with it.
That said, as a GM in my home game, I am frequently annoyed that my PC's take the treasure I took the time to build, convert it all to cash and move on without thinking :). Granted, this little treasure is unlikely to make a huge difference, but I would urge everyone to keep treasure they think they will use, as it's always better to keep than sell for half.
For example, 4 charges of burning hands would be nice to have in a kobold nest... ;)
I couldn't agree more with you Cambyl. Whenever my shift comes up to DM for a few sessions I tend to sprinkle treasure that will be useful in later situations. Personally I'm of the "Never Ever Discard a Wand" school.
Obviously I keep my vote for my system, I am after all monstrously egotistical so why wouldn't I? I'm happy to vote on the subject though. We are a team and should act accordingly. If the majority of us fell that this socialist loot division is too complex or otherwise unfavorable we should change.
Also to be considered, this is our first of three days away from Oleg's so we won't get any gold from these items for a bit. There should be room for us to get more if we're (un)lucky enough to get get caught up in something.
I agree with the loot system, but in some cases I think a couple items could be exempt from the division; such as the wand we got. If character X gets it, he doesn't have a permanent upgrade of personal power; he has a "cannon" that can be used to increase the entire party survival chances (by dealing a lot of damage to a lot of enemies). I myself probably wouldn't buy this wand with mine own gold even if I was capable of using it, but using something like that efficiently can sabe lives, while selling it nets so little gold to everyone that it's kindda sad. Potions fit this bill easily; if I buy myself a 300 gold potion, tomorrow there's a good chance I'll use it to keep Cambyl alive (and that would save the entire party).
tl;dr: Most charged items should be considered a party resource, and not sold for gold division.
Also; can anyone link me the IC thread? I'm on vacation and not on my computer, and can't seem to find it.
You make a good point Bron. That Grease wand could be used by you, Tholamin and/or Zayne. Just like a CLW wand could used by you, Cambyl and/or myself. Either of those things could be pretty helpful in a given situation. With permission by our peers, I will remove wands from the burn pile. What say YOU, team?
Btw, definitely going with Rogue much later down the line. Acrobatics, Disable Device and Use Magic Device as class skills is enough to sway me; everything else is just a bonus.