|
Hi folks, my first time posting here and I have a question. I have a player that wants to create magic items that provide feats. There is no costing for or rules that go into this and the only magic item that gives a feat provides alertness. Does anyone have any insight into this? I think the potential for affecting game balance is huge.
Developer
|
Hi folks, my first time posting here and I have a question. I have a player that wants to create magic items that provide feats. There is no costing for or rules that go into this and the only magic item that gives a feat provides alertness. Does anyone have any insight into this? I think the potential for affecting game balance is huge.
Try to limit crafting to items that exist. The rules for creating new stuff are guidelines for pricing treasure you create, not for PCs to run rampant with.
Honestly, see the impact of the bonus based on how it performs in relation to other existing items. Add more if it grants access to other feats in a tree. Add more if those feats are powerful. Add even more if those feats have qualifications that are hard to meet.
This item should not be cheap, depending on the feat. If you get an item that grants Deadly Stroke, you're risking breaking your game. Skill focus: Profession Librarian... not so much.
Use your judgment. This are guidelines for you, not constraints. The player's do not have a right to create new items unless you expressly let them. Honestly, I wouldn't, not unless you have a very good handle of the impact.
It seems to me you have balance concerns. The default items PCs can craft are those that are spelled out in books. They do not have a right to invent their own. Don't give it to them, especially not in situations not really covered. You let him do this, you're begging for a headache down the road. That's my advice.
Hi folks, my first time posting here and I have a question. I have a player that wants to create magic items that provide feats. There is no costing for or rules that go into this and the only magic item that gives a feat provides alertness. Does anyone have any insight into this? I think the potential for affecting game balance is huge.
Perhaps the city's taverns have rumors about what happened to the last mage who discovered how to create magic items that provide feats?
- He is now a captive of an evil cult, slaving away in a dungeon cell to equip their leaders.
- He went mad after a dream about how to create an item that provided a new feat of creating feat-providing items better. His journal is difficult to read but hauntingly describes his increasing obsession and starvation during the subsequent week.
- He discovered that an ancient Archmage has long ago used a Wish spell to stymie such efforts. Any feat-granting magic item provides a random, often nonsensical feat, which Dispel Magic or similar effects re-randomizes. The "Bracers of Ruining Perfect Pitch 30' Radius" only get you kicked out of concert halls. The "Headband of Greater Flatulence" is indeed useful for avoiding Attacks of Opportunity, but the resulting Gust of Wind spell ruins your pants.
After considering your dilemma, I think the way I, personally, would handle it ...
1) A PC could not possess any more than one item that grants a single feat.
2) If an item grants a feat that is used as a prerequisite, and the item is lost or destroyed, the PC loses access to all the feats affected by the loss of that prerequisite until a time the prerequisite is regained.
3) Expensive, expensive, expensive with at least one very rare component.
I encourage my PCs to come up with new, exciting, and unique items, and everything should be possible ... with a price tag to match the situation (not always in gold).
Hi folks, my first time posting here and I have a question. I have a player that wants to create magic items that provide feats. There is no costing for or rules that go into this and the only magic item that gives a feat provides alertness. Does anyone have any insight into this? I think the potential for affecting game balance is huge.
Paizo does not like items the give feats, and it was an easy way to get kicked out of RPG Superstar. There are no guidelines for it so you have to give it your best guess.
The general rules, as far as I can remember, from 3.5 were basically 10k for a feat with an additional 10k for each prerequisite feat the feat has.
So, something like Alertness, just costs the listed 10k. Cleave, on the other hand, would be 20k, since it requires Power Attack to work. Arcane Armor Mastery would be 30k. You still have to meet all other prerequisites for a feat to function. So, taking Power Attack by an item, you still need STR 13 to use it.
As far as crafting, I'd take a page from some of the skill boosting items and require that the crafter actually have the feats desired to create the item of them. So getting Skill Focus (Arcana) might be fairly easy to get from an NPC crafter, while getting Whirlwind Attack would be much harder (as most martial classes who'd have invested in that chain don't bother crafting).
|
Developer
|
Here are some examples if you decide to go through with this. These are not RAW, as there is no RAW. I made these up.
Iron Will = 8,000gp. A +2 resistance bonus to saves is 4k, iron will is untyped, so I doubled it.
Dodge = 12,000gp. This is a point of touch AC, 2,000. It stacks with everything, so I double it. It is the prerequisite for many, many feat trees, so I mutiply the doubled cost by 3. The item isn't worth it's bonus, true, but given what it unlocks it seems more balanced.
Weapon Focus = 10,000. Bracers of Archery give a typed bonus to attack of 5,000, but apply this to all bows. 5,000 seems a good starting point. The item has a BAB prereq, but it's low, so not much of a price concern by the time you can afford this thing. It opens up some nice feat trees though. Dazzling Display and Specialization, but these trees are rather limited to the fighter in their upper reaches, so I only multiply by 2.
People may argue these prices. That's fair, I made them up. Just look for items of similar function, and see how the feat is more or less powerful. Adjust from there. There should not be a straight formula for it, as feats differ widely in function or power. I just gave these as an example to the type of thought process you'll need to let items like this into your game.
One thing I will caution is allowing the class only feats, like weapon specialization, or anything too far down the line of a feat tree. Deadly stroke is disgusting, and getting it on gloves without having to be a level 8 fighter with all the prereqs is just too much.
I don't know, it seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth.
Would you allow the feat chosen from the item to be a prerequisite for other feats? If so, what happens if you lose the item or it becomes destroyed? Would that cause a 'daisy-chain' of feats unusable (all linked from the prerequisite item feat)?
If the character is a non-fighter, would it outbalance the fighter class in regards to bonus feats?
This is just my opinion, but I feel that is more trouble (and powerful) than it's worth. I feel the amount of feats Pathfinder allows, especially with classes that have bonus feats, is a good balance. But if you are willing to still go along with it, then just be wary on what could lead in the extra power of the character. I feel the suggestion of allowing only one feat item is a good one.
.......
........
As far as crafting, I'd take a page from some of the skill boosting items and require that the crafter actually have the feats desired to create the item of them. So getting Skill Focus (Arcana) might be fairly easy to get from an NPC crafter, while getting Whirlwind Attack would be much harder (as most martial classes who'd have invested in that chain don't bother crafting).
I agree. It should not be possible to craft this kind of item without knowing the feat beforehand.
|
From what I recall version 3.0 and 3.5 (someone like to call Pathfinder 3.66 like we do in my group?) had some intelligent item giving feats, but that ability was removed by Pathfinder.
There was some example in modules/dragon and other official but not widely diffused supplement, generally the items had a high cost for limited benefits.
Generally the feat was a prerequisite to make the item, so you needed an helper with the feat or to have the feat yourself. With the new magic item creation system that requirement has been lessened as you can bypass it with an increase in the creation DC of +5.
As a houserule I would allow it only for very basic feats and without the possibility to use the items as prerequisites for other feats, classes and so on.
An acceptable example would be a weapon that give the Martial Weapon Proficiency for that kind of weapon only. A shield or armor giving the feat needed to use it (with the light proficiency counting as 1 improvement, medium as 2 and heavy as 3, so it would be hideously costly).
I don't remember any other appropriate feat.
...what happens if you lose the item or it becomes destroyed? Would that cause a 'daisy-chain' of feats unusable (all linked from the prerequisite item feat)?...
I mentioned something along those lines in a previous post ...
If an item grants a feat that is used as a prerequisite, and the item is lost or destroyed, the PC loses access to all the feats affected by the loss of that prerequisite until a time the prerequisite is regained.
This in itself is a nice 'balancer', since it makes the item a liability in some instances. Anti-magic, rods of cancellation, or similar magicks would really be intimidating, if the PC used the granted feat as a prerequisite for several other feats.
Could be some very interesting role-playing opportunities coming out of it.
:)
I totally agree that the creator of the item would need to either have the feat or enlist someone who does, similar to enlisting a spellcaster for spells not known for other items.
I say go for it, just be sure to make it balanced, or even a bit too expensive, depending on the granted feat.
Hi folks, my first time posting here and I have a question. I have a player that wants to create magic items that provide feats. There is no costing for or rules that go into this and the only magic item that gives a feat provides alertness. Does anyone have any insight into this? I think the potential for affecting game balance is huge.
Rather than allowing feat-items; offer to have the party go on a subquest or story arc that ultimately grants all the characters a wish. Then allow a wish to be spent to gain an additional feat.
A balance consideration for feats, as stated by the developers: a feat should be worth about 8000gp. Some feats, like crafting feats and leadership obviously break that wide open.
...what happens if you lose the item or it becomes destroyed? Would that cause a 'daisy-chain' of feats unusable (all linked from the prerequisite item feat)?...I mentioned something along those lines in a previous post ...
Yes, but my questions were directed towards the OP and was curious how he planned on or would handle it.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that.
I found an Ioun Stone that gives you Endurance (a no-prereq feat). It is priced 10.000 gp, but since it is slotless, the price for an item that gives you feat but takes an slot should be 5000 gp