bardic knowledge untrained

[Nathan Palmer]

Untrained Knowledge: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.

Bardic Knowledge (Ex)

A bard adds half his class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.

--------------------------------

so with these two things- can a bard make an untrained check if the DC is above 10? We have been arguing about it for 10 minutes- and i want to see your view is.

[stringburka]

Yes, you can. That's the very reason for the "may make untrained" phrasing in the bardic knowledge ability; why would it otherwise be there?

Specific trumps general.

[Nathan Palmer]

stringburka wrote:

Yes, you can. That's the very reason for the "may make untrained" phrasing in the bardic knowledge ability; why would it otherwise be there?

Specific trumps general.

thanks-

do you (or does anyone else) know of clarification of this? Just because that would help settle a debate going on.

[Dragonslie]

There will not be a thread on clarification because the wording is clear.

If there is a knowledge check and he has no ranks... he can make a roll. basically he treats all knowledge checks AS IF he were TRAINED even if he isn't. ( minus the +3 bonus of course)

[Dragonslie]

"may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained." -- This is a class feature.

by saying he can't REMOVES the class feature. (BAD DM)

[Nathan Palmer]

thankyou guys-

sometimes when you argue something again and again and just lay down basic english definitions of whats on the page... and they still disagree- you start to feel like you're in crazy house.