Nathan Palmer's page

thankyou guys-

sometimes when you argue something again and again and just lay down basic english definitions of whats on the page... and they still disagree- you start to feel like you're in crazy house.

Yes, you can. That's the very reason for the "may make untrained" phrasing in the bardic knowledge ability; why would it otherwise be there?

Specific trumps general.

thanks-

do you (or does anyone else) know of clarification of this? Just because that would help settle a debate going on.

Untrained Knowledge: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.

Bardic Knowledge (Ex)

A bard adds half his class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.

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so with these two things- can a bard make an untrained check if the DC is above 10? We have been arguing about it for 10 minutes- and i want to see your view is.