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I love the idea about haunts, but even after reading the rules in GMG about how they work, I'm a bit baffled about the following things:
1) Can you harm a haunt after the surprise round? The book seems to imply that you can use positive energy *only* during the surprise round, and after that it's futile. How about persistent haunts... can you harm them on any round after the haunt manifests?
2) Is the haunt's effect instantenous (on init count 10) and then just *spoof*... the haunt vanishes? If so, can you harm it when it's "gone"? Or do the visual/auditory manifestations remain (i.e. walls keep bleeding and so on) even if the haunt's effect doesn't?
3)Yet about the effect... I can understand how a haunt that "casts" an instantaneous spell works, but what about a haunt using something with a longer duration? Say, 'Bestow Curse' or 'Feast of Ashes'?
4) Does the "primary effects are fear-based" mean that there's always a save against fear involved, even if the haunt's true effect is as a different type of spell (such as 'Fireball')?
5) Do you gain XP from falling victim to a haunt, just as you would if you trigger a trap? Or only if you permanently destroy it by fulfilling the conditions?
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I just ran the haunts recently in RotR game and came across this post from James Jacobs where he discusses converting haunts before the GMG came out. I think it may help answer some of your questions.
I know that on question 5, the answer is the party receives XP for triggering a haunt.
Although you won't see it for some time, I'm the author of the upcoming Haunts article supporting Mike Korte's Haunting of Harrowstone in the Carrion Crown AP, so after tackling two dozen of these critters, I think I can clarify a few things for you where I understand them. Morning is early and no coffee yet, but I think I can get my brain working. Now if only the ouija boards in my bedroom will stay quiet long enough...
1) Can you harm a haunt after the surprise round? The book seems to imply that you can use positive energy *only* during the surprise round, and after that it's futile. How about persistent haunts... can you harm them on any round after the haunt manifests?
You can only harm a haunt after the surprise round if it is a persistent haunt, and even then for only as long as the haunt is manifesting. Positive energy always works for as long as the haunt is present, which can only be for the single surprise round for normal haunts, or multiple rounds for persistent haunts. Non-persistent haunts manifest in a brief flash of horrific gore and vanish back into the ether. Persistent haunts hang around and continue their effects on a loop. If they are manifesting, that's the only time they can be harmed (as opposed to blasting off positive energy in the room where you saw them five minutes ago). To damage a haunt if you missed your chance, you'll have to wait for it to reset. Of course, GMs may rule that ethereal characters or feats like Ectoplasmic Spell will let PC reach-in-and-grab-them when they aren't manifesting, but that's up to the GM.
2) Is the haunt's effect instantenous (on init count 10) and then just *spoof*... the haunt vanishes? If so, can you harm it when it's "gone"? Or do the visual/auditory manifestations remain (i.e. walls keep bleeding and so on) even if the haunt's effect doesn't?
Haunts exist for at least a full surprise round before vanishing (where it can no longer be harmed), and visual leftover effects are up to the GM. Here's the "life cycle" of a haunt's combat rounds: On a surprise round, all haunts begins to materialize at the beginning of the round, and the PCs have a Perception check to notice oddly swirling air, blood bubbling from the floor, etc. Canny PCs may realize they're up against a haunt, and if they perceive it, AND beat it on initiative on the surprise round, they have a chance to stop it before it manifests fully. On segment 10 (or 0 for slow haunts), the haunt manifests fully and the spell effect triggers. The haunt remains for the rest of the surprise round. If it is persistent, it sticks around and repeats the process on the next round, otherwise it vanishes after the surprise round is over, and you lose your chance to harm it. The GM may decide that lingering visual effects continue for flavor, such as bleeding walls, etc, but according to the rules the haunt is no longer present to be destroyed unless it is persistent or you wait for it to reset.
3)Yet about the effect... I can understand how a haunt that "casts" an instantaneous spell works, but what about a haunt using something with a longer duration? Say, 'Bestow Curse' or 'Feast of Ashes'?
I mulled this one over a lot myself, because the GMG rules don't address this, other than to say "how the haunt's effect manifest are up to you to determine." With that in mind, I would let some effects persist. Bestow curse would be a good one. Or hold person, with a sort of "frozen with fear" vibe. There is a certain cinema involved there. Other effects might not make as much sense. depending on how you see it, though. In any case, the haunt has a caster level, so durations can be determined easily.
4) Does the "primary effects are fear-based" mean that there's always a save against fear involved, even if the haunt's true effect is as a different type of spell (such as 'Fireball')?
You are correct. All primary effects of a haunt are mind-affecting fear effects. They are born out of a haunt's ectoplasmic fortitude to intrude on the living, and not from a haunt's innate ability to cast a spell. The haunt's effects are always mind-affecting fear effects for this reason, even though they may manifest as bursts of fire or streaks of lightning. BUT, secondary effects are not. This could be, for example, objects thrown at a character by a haunt manifesting telekinesis. Those objects are quite real. A haunt may trigger earthquake, and you'd better get moving, because there isn't anything innately fear-based about falling rocks and sundering ground.
5) Do you gain XP from falling victim to a haunt, just as you would if you trigger a trap? Or only if you permanently destroy it by fulfilling the conditions?
Tricky tricky. An easy haunt, with the weakness to be damaged by normal weapons, that resets every 10 minutes, would become replenishing XP pool for canny players, wouldn't it? According to GMG page 243 (under XP), haunts should be treated as traps in this regard, and if they either trigger it and survive OR defeat it, they get experience for a haunt of that CR, BUT GMs should rule that any given haunt can only award XP once. You can't sit there and beat up on this poor reseting spirit over and over and expect the "infinite coins" Mario Bros. effect. =-)
I hope that helps!
-Brandon
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Thanks, Tordek and Brandon -- I think your replies answer all my questions! :)
And cool to hear that your work will appear in 'Haunting of Harrowstone', Brandon -- if I were excited about this Ustalav AP before, now I'm doubly so! I just love the ideas of haunts as "hazards", and my only major gripe with them has been the lack of ready-to-run haunts and concrete examples of the mechanics! Two dozen of them? Pure awesome! :D
Generally, I believe that Knowledge checks count as "Not an Actions" when identifying monsters, hence why you can roll multiple knowledge checks at once (I think). After all, recalling something you know or have learned should be instantaneous. So the way I see it, you can roll your knowledge check the second you encounter it.
As for when to roll for Perception... that's really up to your PCs. I suspect that Haunts are a little difficult to detect compared to traps.
I have 1 more question that came up. So, channel energy is all well and good for shoving positive energy into a haunt. Its Aoe, so you don't really need to worry about where the haunt is. How do other divine casters deal with haunts? Disrupt Undead is ranged touch, CLW is touch. How do you know where to hit the haunt?
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I have 1 more question that came up. So, channel energy is all well and good for shoving positive energy into a haunt. Its Aoe, so you don't really need to worry about where the haunt is. How do other divine casters deal with haunts? Disrupt Undead is ranged touch, CLW is touch. How do you know where to hit the haunt?
According to the haunt rules in the GMG, it has AC 10 for spells requiring an attack roll.
--Vrocky Horror