I posted this originally in the AP31 Product Discussion thread (here) but as its a general rule/errata question and it only got one response I thought I'd try posting it here as well.
Anyway, in KM1 (AP31) there is a creature called "Dweomercat" which has a special ability (spoilered):
Dweomer Leap (Su) When a dweomercat is targeted by a spell or within the area of effect of a spell, it can, as a swift action, choose to teleport to a square adjacent to the spell’s caster, effectively appearing mid-leap and aimed toward the caster. This ability takes effect regardless of whether or not the spell overcomes the dweomercat’s spell resistance. If it chooses, the dweomercat can immediately make a full attack against the spell’s caster as though pouncing. Using this ability does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If there is no safe space adjacent to the caster—or if the dweomercat chooses—the dweomercat can forgo using this ability.
My question:
As I understand it, swift actions may only be performed during the turn of the creature using it. Only immediate (or readied/delayed) actions can be used when it is not the creatures turn. If that is correct, then other than in extremely limited circumstances, isn't this ability basically useless? Or, should this actually be errata'd to have been an "immediate" action and not a "swift" action?
Likely errataed.
Most players I've run into who never dabbled with the XPH Psionics rules where swift and immediate were introduced sometimes don't remember the difference. Espically the limitions on when Swift actions can be used and the fact you can only take either a swift or immidate action in a turn, never both.
Immidate actions are rather rare in the game and I can understand how an authors and even proof reader could blank on it.
I belive that this is not intended as an immediate action. Instead, the spell goes off (missing or hitting or failing to overcome SR) as normal, and then on the cat's initiative, it can perform this special teleport as a swift action. The bit about following with a full attack is a reminder that using a swift action does not prevent the full-round attack action.
The OP claims that if this is the case, the ability is basically useless in all but extremely limited situations. I claim that if this ability is actually an immediate action, and includes a full attack as part of that immediate action, it's too powerful.
I belive that this is not intended as an immediate action. Instead, the spell goes off (missing or hitting or failing to overcome SR) as normal, and then on the cat's initiative, it can perform this special teleport as a swift action. The bit about following with a full attack is a reminder that using a swift action does not prevent the full-round attack action.
I think that...
When a dweomercat is targeted...
is a key phrase.
"when it is targeted"
I can't (off the top of my head) think of an instance where an ability is triggered at one point in a round, but then the response doesn't get to go off until some other point in the round. For example, a monster provokes an AoO on its turn as it is moving past the PC fighter. The fighter doesn't get to take his action later, during his initiative, he takes it immediately.
The OP claims that if this is the case, the ability is basically useless in all but extremely limited situations. I claim that if this ability is actually an immediate action, and includes a full attack as part of that immediate action, it's too powerful.
If you go by your interpretation, if effectively gets a full attack for the cost of a swift action on its turn, and then, can still perform a full attack, therefore getting two full attack actions. I say that because the full attack it gains via the Dweomer Leap ability is executed as a swift action by the wording as is.
Two scenarios...
Caster Wins Init:
In this scenario, the cat has not had its init yet (caster goes first).
1) Spellcaster targets Dweomercat with Spell. Resolves spell (pass/fail irrelevant)
2) As an immediate action, upon resolving any spell effects, the Dweomercat Dweomer Leaps adjacent to the caster and claws the bajeezus out of caster (as if pouncing).
3) Later in the round, on the cats initiative it takes its actions as normal (yes, possibly resulting in two full attack sequences, one as a result of the freebie from Dweomer Leap and one from normal initiative.)
Cat Wins Init:
In this scenario, the cat has already acted in the round.
1) Spellcaster targets Dweomercat with Spell. Resolves spell (pass/fail irrelevant)
2) There is no 2) as the cat can't take advantage of the ability if it has already acted.
Is this how you believe it is supposed to work? Or, is it more likely that the designer(s) inadvertently said "swift" when they meant to say "immediate"?
Edit: Ninja'd by James Jacobs. Good thing too, because it seems I'm wrong !
So the full attack is part of the immediate action ? That's the most powerful immediate action I've ever seen. Nasty cats !
jreyst, I'd still point out that if the caster wins initiative he can get away with one spell before getting mauled. The cat can't use an immediate action if it hasnt acted itself in the combat yet (is still flat-footed).
jreyst, I'd still point out that if the caster wins initiative he can get away with one spell before getting mauled. The cat can't use an immediate action if it hasnt acted itself in the combat yet (is still flat-footed).
Agreed.
I posted this originally in the AP31 Product Discussion thread (here) but as its a general rule/errata question and it only got one response I thought I'd try posting it here as well.
Anyway, in KM1 (AP31) there is a creature called "Dweomercat" which has a special ability (spoilered):
** spoiler omitted **
My question:
As I understand it, swift actions may only be performed during the turn of the creature using it. Only immediate (or readied/delayed) actions can be used when it is not the creatures turn. If that is correct, then other than in extremely limited circumstances, isn't this ability basically useless? Or, should this actually be errata'd to have been an "immediate" action and not a "swift" action?
This is by no means official, but I think it should have been an immediate action.
PS: I was supposed to advance some of these and use them, but I forgot. My players will be thanking you, well not really, but I thank you.