There is a thread for the Magus Arcanas, and one for Spellstrike Ideas. I figured I'd make one for Spell Combat as well just to put it all in one place. I believe it was Mr. Fishy who suggested that the magus takes a hit to ac rather than hit while using spell combat, or something to that effect, kind of like rage. I rather like that idea.
i really like the spell combat ability. i think if it was cut and pasted to 4th level it would be more feasible.
put arcane weapon in at 2nd level to take it place will give a decent melee buff early on.
Supplement combat spell with another ability that adds a bonus to concentration such as 1/2 caster level.
I'm rather partial to my flurry of blows like idea personally but Mr. Fishy did have a nice take too.
Ah... spell combat as the arcane version of rage.
Spell combat as a stance that can be maintained for a number of rounds equal to 5 + the magus's Intelligence modifier. At each level beyond 2nd the magus can use his spell combat stance for an additional 2 rounds. While maintaining this stance the magus can make a full attack and cast a spell in the same round, taking a -4 penalty to hit and a -2 penalty to his Concentration checks. He can also add his Intelligence modifier as a bonus to attack and damage rolls, and can add his Strength modifier to his Concentration checks (whether or not he attacks and casts a spell in the same round). At the end of the stance, the magus suffers magical fatigue and takes a -2 penalty to his caster level for 1 minute.
The spell combat stance can then improve at later levels, gradually removing the penalties while retaining the benefits.
I think Spell Combat would be OK as is, if they just reduced the penalty to -2 instead of 4.
With the two weapon fighting feat, -2 is the penalty if the off hand weapon is light, and I can't think of anything lighter than energy ;)
I think Spell Combat would be OK as is, if they just reduced the penalty to -2 instead of 4.
With the two weapon fighting feat, -2 is the penalty if the off hand weapon is light, and I can't think of anything lighter than energy ;)
The idea is that your vigorous movement with your caster hand is making it more difficult to attack.
Oh no, metaphor time!
Look at spell combat like this: you are juggling in one hand and hammering a nail with the other. You have to pay more attention to the juggling (casting), because it is the harder thing to do. Otherwise everyone would be doing it, like fighters or barbarians, er, I mean contractors and truck-drivers. You devote less attention to your hammering, because, well, anyone can pick up a hammer and still hit the nail once in a while. Hammering is easier and much more straight-forward. You need less skill because you are bound to hit the nail some of the time, but if you don't give the juggling enough care you end up dropping your balls, usually in a puddle of what should be a foe's blood but ends up as your own.
That is why melee needs a -4, and Concen checks only get-2.
One suggestion I really like is flipping the levels of Arcane Weapon and Spell Combat. The weapon bond goes a long way towards mitigating the penalties of SC better, and I don't understand why a Magus needs to wait until lvl 20 to add a +5 to their weapon.
Spellstrike could also turn into some more like:
As a full round action, the Magus may make a single attack against a foe with a melee weapon. If the attack hits, the Magus can cast one spell with a range of touch against the target of their melee attack. The spell automatically hits, dealing damage normally in addition to weapon damage.
It is Spell Combat, doing two things at once, where you are actually doing two things at once. In a limited capacity.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I've seen various suggestions to fix this ability by playing with the penalties to concentration and attack rolls. One thought I had was having the type of spell cast affect how the ability works. For example, if the spell is a personal spell, like shield, then you don't need to make a concentation check at all, or get a significant bonus to it, if it's a touch spell, you get a modest bonus (either for a buff like bull's stength or a melee touch spell like shocking grasp), if it's a ranged touch spell/ray, you make the check at normal DC, and apply the existing penalty if it's another type of spell.
Range Concentration Check mod
Personal +6
Touch +2
Ranged touch 0
Other as listed (-2 at 2nd level and 0 at 8th)
Spellstrike and Spell combat, seem to be the two weak areas, in the opinions of many....so I have been looking at those two abilities and trying to determine what I would like to see.
IF...spell combat was handled more or less like this....
Spell Combat (Ex): At 2nd level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons effectively at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the offhand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free, while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty.
He can also cast any spell with a casting time of 1 standard action from the magus spell list. He must cast this spell
defensively, and he takes a – 2 penalty on the concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still suffer the –2 penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks if he has more than one attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The magus must have one hand free to use this ability, even if the spell being cast does not contain somatic components.
Improved Spell Combat (Ex): At 8th level, the magus’s ability to cast spells and make melee attacks improves.
When using the spell combat ability, he may make one additional attack with a light or one handed melee weapon he is wielding.
Greater Spell Combat (Ex): At 14th level, the magus gains the ability to seamlessly cast spells and make melee
attacks. Whenever he uses the spell combat ability, the penalty on his attack and concentration rolls is reduced to 0.
.....then I think Spellstrike works fine.
I'm rather partial to my flurry of blows like idea personally but Mr. Fishy did have a nice take too.
I actually find that I like this idea a lot better. It's quite enjoyable. My buddy is doing a campaign and letting me add some variations to the magus and some unique arcanas. I think I might try the flurry of blows thing out.
After sleeping on it, I have shifted my suggestion a bit.
It seems to me that the concentration check is the proper place to put the majority of the penalty, as that is what is being attempted with the off-hand while swinging a weapon around.....
Spell Combat (Ex): At 2nd level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons effectively at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the offhand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free, while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty.
He can also cast any spell with a casting time of 1 standard action from the magus spell list. He must cast this spell
defensively, and he takes a – 4 penalty on the concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still
suffer the –2 penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but he cannot cast the spell
between weapon attacks if he has more than one attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The magus must have one hand free to use this ability, even if the spell being cast does not contain somatic components.
Improved Spell Combat (Ex): At 8th level, the magus’s ability to cast spells and make melee attacks improves.
When using the spell combat ability, the penalty on his attack rolls is reduced to 0 and the penalty on his concentration checks is reduced to -2.
Greater Spell Combat (Ex): At 14th level, the magus gains the ability to seamlessly cast spells and make melee
attacks. Whenever he uses the spell combat ability, the penalty on his concentration check is reduced to 0.
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If we assume for a moment that the Magus is to be thought of much in the vein as an APG class and we feel comfortable with some complicated interactions I offer the following suggestions:
Give the Magus Combat Casting at level 1. This is more useful (but more complicated) than reducing/removing the Spell Combat concentration penalties (as you can cast defensively in other situations not involving Spell Combat) and the scaling "relief" of greater versions of Spell Combat remain thematically and mechanically in play. This part can be taken or left behind.
My main suggestion is this: Remove/scale the need for a free hand. Spellstrike already gives a mechanism by which the free hand is not needed for the delivery of spells with a range of touch and so it feeds the idea that Magus is at home with weapons in his or her hands as she casts and "magics it up".
Then you can play a sword and board Magus and be more defensive or you can play a two-hander / two weapon Magus but are behind the curve on to-hit without some serious buffing but can still henchman grind and cast other weird stuff in the background. Legislate game balance issues with rules and the broader ability to play different types of Magi (Maguses?) takes the sting off the mechanical penalties.
If as nighttree suggests, the Concentration check should be the main penalty attached to the ability then make it -2 with one hand free, -4 with no hands free and – 6 with two weapons or something (thus ensuring that it is exceedingly rare to buck the action economy so dramatically) or do some sort of mix of attack and concentration penalties the more complicated the outfitting of the Magus like stacking TWF penalties with SC penalties or some such thing.
My main point is that I feel like penaltiy/scalability feels "ok" but taken with the thematic and mechanical limitation of needing one hand free suddenly a myriad of character concepts are taken off of the table, something that I feel can be handled with a more nuanced (and I understand more complex) version of Spell Combat that I think will ultimately feel more rewarding even if it has steep penalties.
I feel Spell Combat would be fine if you were allowed to choose not to cast defensively. Every other spellcaster can choose to simply risk the AoO, rather than being forced to try to cast defensively.
So, change Spell Combat to say "Any Concentration checks made while performing Spell Combat has a penalty of 2. In addition, any attacks of opportunity against you get a bonus of +2 to the attack roll."
That way, it is at least up to the Magus himself if he wants to risk losing his spell due to trying to cast defensively, or due to taking damage from the AoO.
Spell combat simply needs to go from -4/-2 to -2/-2. Most of the misses I'm seeing when GMing are very slight misses. Make it 0/-2 at 8th, and 0/0 at 14th.
Basically I think the concentration penalty is fine where it is. I'm not seeing the level 4 magus in my game having any problem making his concentration checks with a +3 int modifier. It's attacks that are suffering. You can intentionally cast down a couple levels so that the concentration DC's go down. You cannot lower the enemy's ac very easily. The magus is missing a significant number of his attacks right now. -4 is just too much penalty on a character who already is on 3/4 BAB.