|
A couple weeks ago, I was reading monk build thread and someone made the comment fighters would probably be better and unarmed combat. This thread is not a discussion about whether or not that statement is true, but how a fighter could be effective fighting without steel(or in some cases wooden) weapons.
Here is what I came up with for a 4th level fighter using the 25 point buy. If the fighter is human, he gets one more feat, and I was thinking either Dodge, Toughness or Improved Initiative.
****************
Str 16
Dex 18(15+2+1)
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10
Feats
Level 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter Bonus 1: Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)
Fighter Bonus 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 3: Double Slice
Fighter Bonus 4: Weapon Specialization(Unarmed Strike)
*****************
At 4th level, that makes his Unarmed Strikes look like this:
Unarmed Strike(1d3+3+2, x2, B)+8
or
TWF Unarmed Strike
Unarmed Strike(1d3+3+2, x2, B)+6
Unarmed Strike(1d3+3+2, x2, B)+6
If we take this all the way to 20th level, what feats would you pick, what woundrous items(other than the Amulet of Mighty Fists), armor, and ranged weapons? What Weapon Groups?
Thanks in advance for participating in this thought exercise!
Well, if you keep on increasing Dexterity, Weapon Finesse will be a nice boost. I think it's madatory to take all the TWF feats.
Two Weapon Rend and Power Attack will add some nice damage. Stunning Attack may be a bit weak at upper levels comparing to a monk.
Maybe a little dip in Barbarian for fast movement and the bite attack power could be good.
|
|
The Dex only needs to go up by 1 to get the final TWF attacks. After that it might be better to get Str boosting items, which would make Weapon Finesse a bad choice.
Of course, if you have Weapon Finesse and a high Dex, boosting that Dex will increase your Attacks(melee and ranged), your Reflex saves, and your Armor Class.
Power Attacking with a light weapon and two-weapon fighting will make things harder to hit. I'm no expert in increasing Attack and Damage Rolls, but a -1 to hit for a +1 to damage(-6 +6 at level 20) doesn't seem like a good idea except against weak minions and underlings.
The Barbarian dip would help get him around the field of battle, increase his HP, and help off set the -2 from TWF with a +4 to Str.
|
What are the sources used?
Because you can take:
Improved Unarmed Strike - Tome of Battle
Hands as Weapons - Arcana Evolved (enchant unarmed strike)
Shadowblade - Tome of Battle (dex to damage, req: another feat)
Plus the weapon focus/specialization tree
Amulet of fists for increase blunt weapon critical
Critical feats
Plus there's a feat that lets you change the damage type between slashing, piercing, blunt
Yeah, I made a lvl 20 write up of an unarmed fighter but not for Pathfinder. I'll go look for it.
I would probably build him with more emphasis on Strength and less Dexterity.
Str 19 (16+2+1)
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10
This gives you an attack sequence of
+9 1d3+6
+7/+7 1d3+6/1d3+6
This is +1 to hit and damage (and another at level 8, when the strength bonus increases). To qualify for the higher level TWF feats, you would aim for belts of +2 strength and dex (and later a +4 version.)
Expected wealth at level 6 is 16k, so a belt of +2 dex is expensive but not outrageous. At level 11, 40 for the +4/+4 belt is about half your wealth, but barely a quarter by level 13.
Power attack is a viable feat for the character. The -1/+1 trade off is only for offhand or secondary natural attacks; light weapons in the primary hand still get -1/+2. With power attack, this character would attack at
+7 1d3+10
+5/+5 1d3+10/1d3+8
I would build him into a grappler. The fighter weapon training in unarmed would then apply, giving him bonus to hit and damage (some argue this point, I have not seen it resolved). The fighter would qualify for greater grapple 3 lvls earlier than a Monk (6 instead of 9. Why its not on the monk bonus feat list I have no idea).
I think instead of Unarmed strike using the Cestus would be a good choice. It gives the better critical rate, and the option of piercing or buldgeoning damage.
Having run the math if you take the Dex up to a total of 24 and go with mithral full plate and a dancing shield your damage from two weapon fighting with unarmed strike will be a bit behind the monk's but still rather reasonable and your AC can be just as good (if you take the two shield focus feats -- otherwise you're 2 points down at 49 max instead of 51).
This changes drastically if both the fighter and the monk have means of enlarging themselves -- the monk's extra damage goes up much more quickly in such cases.
Power Attacking with a light weapon and two-weapon fighting will make things harder to hit. I'm no expert in increasing Attack and Damage Rolls, but a -1 to hit for a +1 to damage(-6 +6 at level 20) doesn't seem like a good idea except against weak minions and underlings.
I would like to point out that power attack, at 20th level will be -6 to hit and +12 to damage.
Something to consider is disarming and it's related feats.
If you disarm someone while your hands are free, you end up with the weapons in your own hands, if you so desire.
|
|
True, but trying to disarm while unarmed imposes a -4 penalty to the check. This can be off set by Improved and Greater Disarm, but it may be better to just get a weapon with the disarm trait for that, or get a guantlet.
Now what about items? Without having to buy weapons like swords or axes, the unarmed fighter has a little more gold to spend. If he gets an amulet of mighty fists though, he'll have less.
So does he get the Amulet or go for belts and ranged weapon enhancements?
A Monks Robe seems like an abvious choice.