Assassin: An assassin can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
Shadowdancer: A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Why is the wording between these two class abilities different? Futhermore, why is the assassin better at hiding in the shadows then a master of shadows?
Finding a shadow is far easier than finding dim illumination.
You would have to be standing alone in a large, brightly lit, empty room to not have any shadows anywhere. A pitch black room might get rid of shadows too, though that is debatable (and kind of moot anyways as no one can see anything). A simple chair, a marble on the floor, or even another creature will almost always gives you a shadow to work with.
Dim illumination, on the other hand, only really exists on the edges of light sources (such as between 21 and 40 feet of a torch) or at dawn/dusk/on starry nights/nights with full moons.
Creative Director
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The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
Thank you for the clarification.
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The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
My question is this then, what if a shadow dancer is outside in a bright and sunny day in a field with a single tree, could he use the trees shadow to hide in, by the wording the assassin could.
My question is this then, what if a shadow dancer is outside in a bright and sunny day in a field with a single tree, could he use the trees shadow to hide in, by the wording the assassin could.The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
Absolutely he could. Trees create a shadow. Just pretend the wording on both prestige classes says "needs a shadow OR dim light" to work.
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The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
Thanks for that clarification.
That does help alleviate some of my ten-year hate for the HiPS ability, which previously, may as well as been worded as 'The Shadowdancer always gets to roll Hide if within 10' of any other creature, friend or foe, since he can claim to be hiding inside the shadows behind that person's eyelids'.,or 'The Shadowdancer can always use the Hide skill, even under the light of a thousand Hiroshimas, by simply tossing a playing card onto the floor'.
It doesn't address one of my main objections, of which most responders seem to miss the point, which is;
How can a person claim to be 'hiding in shadows', unless they have to actually walk into, and hide in that shadow?
Shouldn't there have to be a minimum size required for the area of dim light? Surely it should have to cover enough 5' squares(cubes?) to accomodate the creature's base size and height?
I just checked my copy of the PFCRB and in my copy the Assassin's and Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Site abilities are worded the exact same, both say shadow and not dim light.
I always imagined that the Shadowdancer had some mystic connection to shadows, like Jack of Shadows in the Zelazny novel. I guess I would expect the Shadowdancer to be better at using shadows than an assassin.
That would be incentive for the assassin to get on his leotard and dip a few levels of dancer :)
I always imagined that the Shadowdancer had some mystic connection to shadows, like Jack of Shadows in the Zelazny novel. I guess I would expect the Shadowdancer to be better at using shadows than an assassin.
That would be incentive for the assassin to get on his leotard and dip a few levels of dancer :)
Just the one level, actually...
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Per mechanics of D&D everything needs balance, the assassins bread and butter is the death attack. The basic Death attack requires 3 rounds, but now the assassin is not a spell caster by nature so hiding becomes harder. The ability to hide in any shadow is deserved due to how difficult it is to observe someone for 3 rounds (3 rounds of them getting perception checks) for your main class feature.
'Death Attack per d20pfsrd'
If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.
'example with the limit of the shadowdancer on the assassin'
The assassin is in a city mid day and was told he will only have one chance to take his target. looks around no dim light, decides he can not effeciently hide and takes a chance. 1 dead assassin was forgotten today.
Though I was much more sure then, than I am now, I thought it prudent to try and get an answer to Gambit's question above. *FAQ*