curious what people think
Casting from a spellbook: A wizard can spontaneously cast a spell from a spellbook as long as they have an appropriate spell slot open. This takes more time then casting a prepared spell. Spells with a casting time of a standard action take a number of rounds equal to its spell level. Spells that are one or more rounds take that many additional rounds. Spells with casting time measured in minutes or hours are unaffected. While casting a spell in this manner the wizard cannot cast defensively, and is considered to be flatfooted.
I've modified wizard and sorcerer somewhat, Sorc gets new spell levels at the same rate as the other casters, and its bonus spells at the first level it learns a new spell level, wizard has the ability to spontaneously cast from their spell book per the above, and their bonus spells work like they did in standard 3.5.
well ya see the prep time to memorize the spell is really casting it. You just leave the last line off..kinda hanging there in air. So casting it from the book would take the same amount of time it does to memorize it.
True, but I've never seen any information on how long an individual spell takes to prepare. I don't think there are numbers for it, so I made something up. ;p
The book says minimum of 15 minutes
*ponders* I had forgotten about that. I think I may change that though. I want lower level spells to be less complex than higher level ones, and take less time. Hmm, I'm rather ok with minute or more casting time for any spell cast from the book. I must think upon it.
Anyone else have ideas?
The book says minimum of 15 minutes
That is assuming that a wizard spell needs to be prepared in order to be cast. While the text does not elaborate one way or another, it could be possible that the 'preparation-to-cast-it-later' part of preparing a spell takes time in its own; time which the wizard could bypass if he was casting the spell directly from the spellbook. This is totally in the field of houseruling, but not so far-stretched.
Vancian magic often describes prepared spells as 'timed-bombs'. To keep the same analogy, it may take 15 minutes to make the bomb and attach a timer, but it may be quicker just to make the bomb and set it off immediately.
At any case, casting a wizard spell directly from a spellbook should always be impractical at best in a rushed or threatening situation (such as combat); otherwise there would be no need for spell preparation. 15 minutes may be a bit too harsh. 1 full round (plus 1 standard action to get the spellbook itself) isn't too bad IMO.
'findel
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It would radically change the way that wizards work and would honestly seem to aim more at making it so wizards didn't have to think so hard about what spells they take as opposed to a system that would reward them into taking an interesting in going on and what they're doing and actually taking the time to prepare properly.
Plus there already is the arcane bond freebie..
It would radically change the way that wizards work and would honestly seem to aim more at making it so wizards didn't have to think so hard about what spells they take as opposed to a system that would reward them into taking an interesting in going on and what they're doing and actually taking the time to prepare properly.
Plus there already is the arcane bond freebie..
Radically? I wouldn't say that. IF the wizard kept a 3rd level spell slot open, THEN he could spend 3 rounds (or 4 if his spellbook isn't at hand) to cast a fireball... at which point the opponent is most likely already dead. As far as combat goes, the wizard is still reliant on his prepared spell.
There are a few situations where it would enhance the efficiency of utility spells. Didn't prepare wizard's lock? You could cast it if you left a spell slot open...
This is already legit by RAW if you are willing to spend 15 minutes to cast a spell. The only new aspect that the OP is bringing is a quicker casting time for 'unprepared' spells.
The book says minimum of 15 minutes
Yes, but a maximum of one hour.
So, a 1st level wizard with a 20 INT can prepare 4 first level spells in one hour. That works out to one spell every 15 minutes (the minumum time) or one spell every 150 melee rounds.
His dad, a 20th level wizard with an INT of 30 can prepare 249 spell levels in the same 60 minutes. That's 4.15 spells per minute, or just about 1 spell every 15 seconds, or one spell every 2.5 melee rounds.
That's quite a difference.
Sure, there's also quite a difference in their level and their intellect, so one would expecte quite a difference.
A complex system that allows a wizard to cast from his spellbook would take these complexities into consideration. However, if you use the numbers I presented, that means your level 1 wizard will have to spend 150 melee rounds casting Magic Missile while his dad would only need 3 rounds to cast Magic Missile and only 23 rounds to cast a Wish. That would feel awkward.
If you simplify it, then all bets are off. The minimum and maximum spell preparation times won't have anything to do with the simplification you choose.
The book says minimum of 15 minutesYes, but a maximum of one hour.
So, a 1st level wizard with a 20 INT can prepare 4 first level spells in one hour. That works out to one spell every 15 minutes (the minumum time) or one spell every 150 melee rounds.
His dad, a 20th level wizard with an INT of 30 can prepare 249 spell levels in the same 60 minutes. That's 4.15 spells per minute, or just about 1 spell every 15 seconds, or one spell every 2.5 melee rounds.
That's quite a difference.
Sure, there's also quite a difference in their level and their intellect, so one would expecte quite a difference.
A complex system that allows a wizard to cast from his spellbook would take these complexities into consideration. However, if you use the numbers I presented, that means your level 1 wizard will have to spend 150 melee rounds casting Magic Missile while his dad would only need 3 rounds to cast Magic Missile and only 23 rounds to cast a Wish. That would feel awkward.
If you simplify it, then all bets are off. The minimum and maximum spell preparation times won't have anything to do with the simplification you choose.
Again, that's IF you assume that in order to be cast, as spell requires to be prepared...
As for me, I would abuse this system.
My wizard would get up in the morning and prepare just a few spells, using a proportional fraction of his hour (per the rules on page 218). I would probably only prepare just a few combat spells and nothing utility at all.
If we run into a fight, I should have enough combat spells to handle it, then, after the combat, I would prepare a few more spells to replace the ones I had cast.
And so it would be throughout the day.
But when I encountered something that wasn't a combat, say a door I wanted to unlock or a magic item I needed to identify, or a language I needed to translate or a reason to teleport somewhere, or whatever, I would whip out my spellbook and cast as needed.
This would take me from being very versatile with the challenge of having to predict the day's needs to suddenly being immensely versatile with almost no limitation.
A god among mages.
(yes, this post is a bit simplified, my approach would be a little more complex, but it boils it down to a nutshell)
Again, that's IF you assume that in order to be cast, as spell requires to be prepared...The book says minimum of 15 minutesYes, but a maximum of one hour.
So, a 1st level wizard with a 20 INT can prepare 4 first level spells in one hour. That works out to one spell every 15 minutes (the minumum time) or one spell every 150 melee rounds.
His dad, a 20th level wizard with an INT of 30 can prepare 249 spell levels in the same 60 minutes. That's 4.15 spells per minute, or just about 1 spell every 15 seconds, or one spell every 2.5 melee rounds.
That's quite a difference.
Sure, there's also quite a difference in their level and their intellect, so one would expecte quite a difference.
A complex system that allows a wizard to cast from his spellbook would take these complexities into consideration. However, if you use the numbers I presented, that means your level 1 wizard will have to spend 150 melee rounds casting Magic Missile while his dad would only need 3 rounds to cast Magic Missile and only 23 rounds to cast a Wish. That would feel awkward.
If you simplify it, then all bets are off. The minimum and maximum spell preparation times won't have anything to do with the simplification you choose.
Of course. It wasn't my assumption, I was just responding to the first few posts. And, I did include that part about all bets being off if you simplify it (read that as: don't depend on the minimum or maximum preparations times because you wouldn't be preparing the spells).
As for me, I would abuse this system.
My wizard would get up in the morning and prepare just a few spells, using a proportional fraction of his hour (per the rules on page 218). I would probably only prepare just a few combat spells and nothing utility at all.
If we run into a fight, I should have enough combat spells to handle it, then, after the combat, I would prepare a few more spells to replace the ones I had cast.
And so it would be throughout the day.
(...)
I don't have the Pathfinder version, but unless it changed from 3.5, preparing a spell takes a minimum of 15 minutes, even if a wizard can prepared all his spell within 1 hour.
I'm curious 'though. Are there any counter-indications in the RaW that prevents a wizard from partially preparing his spell slots in the morning?
Would the 15 minutes per spell (assuming the wizard has at least 4 spell slots) cast directly from a spellbook be legit by RaW?
'findel
This idea could be summed up in this...
Exit Wizard... enter slow ass sorcerer. Might as well just dump both classes and use the Arcana Evolved magister and be done with the slow creep.
At the moment, the wizard is already a slow ass sorcerer, only it take 24 hours to 'spontaneously' cast his spells.
I'd see this as a tool for players to participate in the effort against the 15 minutes day...
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It's the player's responsibility to deal with that particular problem, not the DM's responsibility to house rule things to make it easier for them.
So this is wonderful, we've got one thread saying that wizards are so extremely more powerful then sorcerers, and we've got another thread saying that they want wizards to be more like sorcerers.
I'd take a look at the Pathfinder version of the class, things are a lot different for wizards.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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curious what people think
Casting from a spellbook: A wizard can spontaneously cast a spell from a spellbook as long as they have an appropriate spell slot open ... number of rounds equal to its spell level.
Bad idea
Also, it is currently possible anyway but requires 15 minutes to learn the spell in a slot.
Casting from a spellbook: This type of casting is more diffucult than have a spell prepared. Wizards attempting this should only be doing this in an emergency. To cast a spell from a spellbook requires a Spellcraft check DC = 20 + 3 times the spell level. The casting time is a full round action. The caster is vulnerable to attacks of opportunity, to which it is impossible to use the casting defensively option. A caster can never take 10 when casting in this way and may only cast from his/her own spellbook. Also, no metamagic may be applied to spells cast in this fashion.
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What our house rule has been is to treat spells in a spell book as a scroll. We have changed the costs accordingly to correspond to scroll prices. This allows a Wizard who is in a dire situation or a Sorcerer who wishes to, to make a decision to use up that spell. Poof it goes away you can’t learn it tomorrow or sell that spell from that spell book at market. But if you really need just one more fireball, well there you go.
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My Beloved Spouse (... where's those dang Kobolds?) has houseruled that a Wizard can cast from his spellbook. As though the book is a scroll of his Caster Level. Thus, the spell being so cast is GONE once it's cast.
This added to a very dramatic scene wherein a Very High Level Wizard and his apprentice were in a clearing with a Sphere of Annihilation. To get away, the High Level Wizard burned his copy of Gate from his book. The Gate + the Sphere = Crazy Delicious.
And I'll say again before I read this message board, I've never ever heard of the 15 minute day. Closest I had to that was running old school first level characters.. but not even then and definitely not today.
At the moment, the wizard is already a slow ass sorcerer, only it take 24 hours to 'spontaneously' cast his spells.I'd see this as a tool for players to participate in the effort against the 15 minutes day...
And until last week, I'd never heard of deep fried cool whip. Turns out, it's yummy - and it's been around since before I was born.
The 15-minute adventure day is just a term. It doesn't literally mean the adventuring day is exactly 15 minutes long.
What it does mean is that PC resources, like spells and HP, are limited. Once gone, the PCs need to withdraw from danger and rest. Any further typical encounters at this point would most likely result in many deaths, even a TPK. These resources tend to run out very early in an adventuring day (at least in some situations), so it seems like adventurers only spend about 15 minutes a day, at least in those situations, adventuring, and they spend the rest of their day recovering from those 15 minutes.
Dungeons are the biggest culprit. Since most fights take less than 1 minute, a group of PCs could easily wander through 7 or 8 rooms in a dungeon, including 4 reasonably tough encounters, in around 15 minutes. Yes, I know it would take a bit longer if they are thoroughly searching each room, but many rooms need little searching. So a party might wake up, walk into the dungeon around 8am, and by 8:15, or thereabouts, they have already had 4 encounters, used up most of their spells and are all somewhat wounded, and now it's time to withdraw and set up camp to recover.
Might is the keyword.
And it's rarely exactly 15 minutes.
But really, even if it's two hours, still, the idea applies that the party adventures for 2 hours then recovers for 22 hours - hardly sounds heroic.
And yes, sometimes this doesn't happen. Wandering through a big forest a party might get the same 4 encounters spaced throughout the whole day, rather than all frontloaded between breakfast and brunch.
But it can happen. And it does happen.
Hence the term "15-minute adventuring day".