Hello, I was hoping someone could clear something up. On pg. 549 of the Pathfinder rpg book, there is a section on reducing the cost of magic items by placing restrictions upon them. These limits being such things as only certain classes, alignments, etc can use the item.
Now, this seems like a loophole that players can use to make/purchase items at MUCH lower rates by having the item function with, say, only chaotic good fighters (for a chaotic good fighter in the campaign). If this were the case, wouldn’t entire organisations (eg. church cults) make all their magic items and equipment function for followers of said deity (ie. alignment-specific)? Why waste resources if it’s cheaper to make/purchase magic items this way? Thus, the likelihood of finding a magic item that matches up to the PC is remote to say the least.
I’m not sure who it was (perhaps Monte Cook), but long ago a game designer suggested to eliminate this cost reduction because it’s really not a limitation as it works for the PC and others can’t use the item against you. I just want people’s opinions on how this particular section was MEANT to be used – as flavour (eg. holy avenger, dwarven thrower) or a loophole for PCs to purchase items with restrictions for everyone else but themselves thus reducing the price significantly but getting full use out of the item.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
If this were the case, wouldn’t entire organisations (eg. church cults) make all their magic items and equipment function for followers of said deity (ie. alignment-specific)?
Followers of the same deity do not (always) have the same alignment. It's really hard to institutionalize the specific drawback to anything but the most obscure cults and smallest organizations. The only things listed in that section are restricting based on skill, alignment, or class.
Class is a hard sell because most NPCs don't have PC classes in the first place, but the magic item creators probably do. That means it's an object that either the creator cannot use or that only the creator can use.
Alignment is a hard sell because there are very, very few mono-alignment groups. Even paladins belong to churches, and churches are administered by clerics, and clerics can be a minimum of 3 different alignments for even the strictest deities. That means no matter who makes the item, some of the clergy won't be able to use it.
Skill is a hard sell because, for one, it's really not much of a restriction against having it be used against you, and for two, you're again facing the problem of having it be used FOR you by everyone relevant. Not even all clergymen have Knowledge: Religion.
Hello, I was hoping someone could clear something up. On pg. 549 of the Pathfinder rpg book, there is a section on reducing the cost of magic items by placing restrictions upon them. These limits being such things as only certain classes, alignments, etc can use the item.
Now, this seems like a loophole that players can use to make/purchase items at MUCH lower rates by having the item function with, say, only chaotic good fighters (for a chaotic good fighter in the campaign).
This is why the game has a GM. The magic item creation rules are just a roadmap so the GM can get a general idea of what to price things. Look at the last chapter on that page. "Not all items follow these formulas... the price of an item may be modified based on it's actual worth. [/i]The formulas only provide a starting point[/i]."
It's all up to the GM. If your wizard makes a pair of boots for the parties rogue that gives a +5 to stealth but only if the character has 10 ranks in stealth and is a chaotic neutral elf who worships Calistria, you are perfectly justified telling them it costs exactly what elven boots cost.
If you think it's cheesey or a loophole feel free to tell the players "No". In particular magic item pricing is GM's judgment, which is why they are guidelines and not rules.
Edit: the discounts for race/ skills are there for GMs or people who want to make more general use items, not so players can make discounted items.
Edit 2: Bring on the cheese lords!!
Now, this seems like a loophole that players can use to make/purchase items at MUCH lower rates by having the item function with, say, only chaotic good fighters (for a chaotic good fighter in the campaign).
Generally, I agree. If the restriction doesn't restrict the PC, it's not a restriction and should be worth no discount. It's a principle I picked up from point-based games like Champions.
I'm believe the major use for that rule is for DMs to give slightly better gear to their NPCs without giving too much money to the party. Look at the drow of 2nd edition and earlier, as they followed a similar model by having their equipment literally turn to dust if they left the Underdark.
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Hello, I was hoping someone could clear something up. On pg. 549 of the Pathfinder rpg book, there is a section on reducing the cost of magic items by placing restrictions upon them. These limits being such things as only certain classes, alignments, etc can use the item.
In 3.5, the FAQ made it clear those were for DM use only. In short, it was intended to be used to limit the price to SELL the item, but the price to MAKE the item was still the normal market price. So it was either 1) a failed item creation a PC tried or 2) an item found in a dungeon.
In 3.p, you still have the item creation rules the same as 3.5 rules. Basically the cost to create items are set by the DM, so it isn't like the player can say "here look at page 549, I can make it for this cost" because the player doesn't have the right to use that rule without DM authorization first.
It isn't like the kind of freedom the player has in other rules (like taking Power Attack, class levels in Druid, etc.)
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A player of mine just asked this exact question the other day.
My answer was that to qualify for a restriction, it had to thematically make sense for the item being created.
In other words, I would not allow an item to be made with restrictions that had no bearing on the functioning of the item or the "purpose" it was created for.
So making a ring of protection that was only usable by CN sorcerer elves with 5 ranks in diplomacy just to get a discount. No.
Gloves of lock picking, with restrictions to rogue class and/or disable device? Yes.
When he argued further I pointed out that if that wasn't agreeable to him, I would make sure that most of the magic items the party would find in the future would adhere to his idea on how to implement this rule. With everything they found being tuned to the creature employing said magical items.
Funny, but he came around to my thinking...
Cheers