If a character works for the Society, why doesn't he get paid? Right now the Society just provides chances for pathfinders to kill other people, loot them & fence the stolen goods while doing the Society's dirty work.
Edit: If pathfinders don't do the whole killing, stealing and fencing the goods thingy, they don't get any gold while working for the Society. Is this really the way Pathfinder Society should be run?
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Except, you know, roleplaying the character in question. The supposition is that you are playing a Pathfinder that is a member of the Society. You aren't playing a mercenary that the Pathfinders picked out of the street and hired to do X or Y. You actually work for the Society, and as I said above, who knows what happens off screen.
You might be the toast of Absalom for recoving X, or you might be persona non grata for months after failing to do Y, but you are still a member of the Pathfinder Society, and to an extent, that is your career, not your job.
But I'm sure others see things differently than I do.
You're still missing the point.
* The Pathfinder Society is a heavily gamistic game-environment.
* Insubstantial rewards have no place in a rules discussion.
* "Roleplayers ROLE-play their rewards and the rule-mongers are just out to min-max" is still a straw man -argument.
* Implying that people interested in rules don't role-play their characters is borderline insulting.
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I agree with both the Fins & KnightErrantJr. Navdi & Deussu are correct to feel like it's a disincentive when win or lose, its all a wash in the end. There are no in-game consequences, good or bad, for failing to accomplish a mission. On the other hand, I agree with KnightErrantJr that in-character the PCs should want to serve the Society to the best of their abilities--even putting aside their factional rivalry to accomplish a Society mission. I enjoy how the Pathfinder Society introductions put aside the whole, "So you're all sitting in a tavern having a drink when in walks a young boy with a message in his hand. He comes over to your table and asks you your name. When you respond to him, he gives you Player Handout #1". Players in the Pathfinder Society are not mercenaries. It is assumed they accept any mission they are given because of a desire to advance the Society's agenda (and their own standing).
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I'll rephrase my argument from an in-game perspective:
"So, we get to loot, kill and explore (e.g. "adventure") while risking life and limb in the service of your organization and all we're getting is free room and board and all traveling expenses paid? When we succeed at what you send us out to do, we get nothing extra. When we fail at what you send us out to do, nothing happens. Interesting."
The point is: If a substantial part of the reward hinged on success or failure, the characters would try harder to succeed, which makes for far better drama.
I agree with both the Fins & KnightErrantJr. Navdi & Deussu are correct to feel like it's a disincentive when win or lose, its all a wash in the end. There are no in-game consequences, good or bad, for failing to accomplish a mission. On the other hand, I agree with KnightErrantJr that in-character the PCs should want to serve the Society to the best of their abilities--even putting aside their factional rivalry to accomplish a Society mission. I enjoy how the Pathfinder Society introductions put aside the whole, "So you're all sitting in a tavern having a drink when in walks a young boy with a message in his hand. He comes over to your table and asks you your name. When you respond to him, he gives you Player Handout #1". Players in the Pathfinder Society are not mercenaries. It is assumed they accept any mission they are given because of a desire to advance the Society's agenda (and their own standing).
Maybe another route is that in addition to your Prestige within your faction, there should be a route to advancement (or better treatment) by the Pathfinder Society.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but here in Illinois the Living Greyhawk association really got into the ROLEPLAYING aspect. They put together all kinds of what they called meta-organizations. These were in-game organizations (like a group of rangers who protected the forests, or mounted border guards, or even a semi-criminal "family") that had membership requirements, and some form of tithing attached. In return for an expenditure of time and in-game gold, these organizations would provide limited benefits to their members. (Like a +2 circumstance bonus when dealing with other members of the organization that might appear in the module, or a minor discount on non-magic, non-masterwork equipment).
The more these organizations were made part of the storylines, the more people would work to advance their role within the organization, and it became a source of great pride to have "rank" in a meta-org. It greatly enriched the play experience beyond the "Smash/Kill/Loot" approach.
I believe that Pathfinder RPG would be well served by such a feature within Golarion.
For example, the Druids of Cheliax in-game organization could require a tithe on all member (call the first level of membership Supplicant) earnings. Say, 5%. In return, they might be able to purchase blood-red leather armor with oaken studs. <currently unavailable>. The use of such armor would be contingent upon good standing within the organization. After 1 year of service in the society, the character might be eligible for a second tier of membership (Overseer), which would require a higher tithe (say 10%). In return for this, the character would receive a +2 circumstance bonus when dealing with rangers or druids, and the ability to purchase some other minor item.
Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea.
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I'll rephrase my argument from an in-game perspective:
"So, we get to loot, kill and explore (e.g. "adventure") while risking life and limb in the service of your organization and all we're getting is free room and board and all traveling expenses paid? When we succeed at what you send us out to do, we get nothing extra. When we fail at what you send us out to do, nothing happens. Interesting."
The point is: If a substantial part of the reward hinged on success or failure, the characters would try harder to succeed, which makes for far better drama.
The way I see it, it's not even about drama. It's simply about actions and consequences. Failure has no consequences. To me, this makes no sense, and it hurts the verisimilitude, already tenuous in the highly abstracted organised play environment.
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The way I see it, it's not even about drama. It's simply about actions and consequences. Failure has no consequences. To me, this makes no sense, and it hurts the verisimilitude, already tenuous in the highly abstracted organised play environment.
haven't been in an organiced game...
but certainly I gave my players consequences for failing or succeding... within MY OWN game...but certainly there is a need to feel real advancement... i know you get prestige from YOUR faction... but what do you really win from the Pathfinder Society? besides more calls...
I agree with crmanriq in that other organizations of something specific for the factions...
still... yes I find troublesome the need to rob the bar for my money, what if I play a paladin or a LG cleric... so I won't earnnothing for roleplaying my character correctly?
nothing against you Louis, justbeing curious about this whole situation... yes I have seen the Society gatting advantage of what its members do... and the factions too... but really besides some loot and some 2ndary recognition... why would the players be interested in playing acordingthe rules of the Society instead of... well just being mercs?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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If succeeding in the adventure had rewards (either monetary or the Society analogue to Faction Points) then I suspect people would spend less time on trying to rob seedy taverns, and faction missions would diminish in relative importance.
And I think both of those are good developments.
Honestly, right now: if it came down to a clear choice between (a) achieving your faction goal and earning prestige, or (b) accomplishing the scenario mission, which would you choose?
Accomplishing your mission currently earns you Prestige Awards that allow you to buy better and better items from your faction as you gain in prestige. Failure means you're not gaining prestige and not gaining access to better items. Your motivation to succeed, out of game, should be to gain access to better items. The current system is a placeholder, I should add, for a new system that will be implemented in Season 1. I don't want to spill the details yet, but there will be a more tangible (and player-decided) reward for prestige and mission accomplishment once we've launched under PRPG.
The Pathfinder Society doesn't pay Pathfinders for their work. Why? Because the Pathfinder Society provides maps, travel, lodging, safe haven, research, etc. for free and rarely requires Pathfinders to return from missions and adventures and give the Society everything they find. Often the Society is after one item for the vaults and the rest of the treasure is for the Pathfinders themselves.
I appreciate the frustration with the encounter that gives the PCs to choose between robbing the drug den or not robbing the drug den--I didn't expect everyone to make the same choice. I like that it adds a small element of roleplay to the scene as the PCs have to make a choice between honesty or their (potential) mercenary ideals. Not every scenario will have that choice (I can only think of two right now).
For the future, keeping discussions about what works and doesn't work within the scope of polite discussion is preferred to declaring something we've decided to do is "stupid." I'm much more inclined to listen to you when you present your arguments rationally and politely than when you start yelling for everyone to hear. I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of this, just making that blanket statement for season 0 and the PFS playtest.
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The Pathfinder Society doesn't pay Pathfinders for their work. Why? Because the Pathfinder Society provides maps, travel, lodging, safe haven, research, etc. for free and rarely requires Pathfinders to return from missions and adventures and give the Society everything they find.
Don't forget about the superb legal representation too! My tables seem to end up connected to all kinds of murders, robberies and public mayhem yet by the start of the next adventure everything's been cleared up. You gotta love that kind of protection! ;)
Don't forget about the superb legal representation too! My tables seem to end up connected to all kinds of murders, robberies and public mayhem yet by the start of the next adventure everything's been cleared up. You gotta love that kind of protection! ;)
That too! :-)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Accomplishing your mission currently earns you Prestige Awards that allow you to buy better and better items from your faction as you gain in prestige. Failure means you're not gaining prestige and not gaining access to better items. Your motivation to succeed, out of game, should be to gain access to better items.
Josh, correct me if I'm misunderstanding the system here. Let's say a Venture-Captain assigns the party to uncover the Enigma of Tupprance. As an agent of Taldor, my faction assignment is to alter the engravings on the Scarlet Whimsey. I had understood that I would get a reward (Taldan faction prestige) for altering the engravings, but no reward for uncovering the Enigma.
Is your note above implying that, to get Taldan faction prestige, I would have to complete my faction assignment and also make sure the party completes the Venture-Captain's mission?
If so, then I'm afraid I've misunderstood that aspect of organized play.
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Accomplishing your mission currently earns you Prestige Awards that allow you to buy better and better items from your faction as you gain in prestige. Failure means you're not gaining prestige and not gaining access to better items. Your motivation to succeed, out of game, should be to gain access to better items.Josh, correct me if I'm misunderstanding the system here. Let's say a Venture-Captain assigns the party to uncover the Enigma of Tupprance. As an agent of Taldor, my faction assignment is to alter the engravings on the Scarlet Whimsey. I had understood that I would get a reward (Taldan faction prestige) for altering the engravings, but no reward for uncovering the Enigma.
Is your note above implying that, to get Taldan faction prestige, I would have to complete my faction assignment and also make sure the party completes the Venture-Captain's mission?
If so, then I'm afraid I've misunderstood that aspect of organized play.
QFT (Quoted for truth). I had my eyebrows raise in confusion. Possibly a misconception?
Okay, okay, fine. We can't seem to discuss the issue on these forums since either we just get people aggravated or our point is ignored altogether. Besides it doesn't take much work to alter gold earned from the grit den (75 gp/259 gp) to come from the Society, making it a Holiday Bonus or whatever. A simple solution to a simple question, yet I felt a responsibility to inform you of the matter. Whether you choose to act is up to you.
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aye, indeed. when is your next PF Scenario Louis?No sweat Montalve. All the PFS writers write to specific guidelines. That said, looks like Josh provided the answers!
nothing against you Louis, justbeing curious about this whole situation...
Well, the next thing I have coming out with Paizo won't be a PFS, but I'm not allowed to talk about it yet...*shifts eyes left and right***
psst...
Did I get you? :^)
Accomplishing your mission currently earns you Prestige Awards that allow you to buy better and better items from your faction as you gain in prestige. Failure means you're not gaining prestige and not gaining access to better items. Your motivation to succeed, out of game, should be to gain access to better items.Josh, correct me if I'm misunderstanding the system here. Let's say a Venture-Captain assigns the party to uncover the Enigma of Tupprance. As an agent of Taldor, my faction assignment is to alter the engravings on the Scarlet Whimsey. I had understood that I would get a reward (Taldan faction prestige) for altering the engravings, but no reward for uncovering the Enigma.
Is your note above implying that, to get Taldan faction prestige, I would have to complete my faction assignment and also make sure the party completes the Venture-Captain's mission?
If so, then I'm afraid I've misunderstood that aspect of organized play.
Re-read my post as "Accomplishing your faction mission..." and it should make better sense. I should've included that word for clarification. You get prestige from your faction. If you fail the venture-captain's mission but survive and accomplish your faction mission, you get your prestige award.
Okay, okay, fine. We can't seem to discuss the issue on these forums since either we just get people aggravated or our point is ignored altogether.
This seems rather melodramatic. I, for one, read every post on the Pathfinder Society boards and I try to address the key issues of each thread and not ignore what I feel is a pretty hardcore group of Pathfinder Society players and GMs. (And I mean hardcore in a good way, by the way.)
So if you feel other participants are ignoring you--that may well be. But I'm not and I run the thing so there you go. :-)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Re-read my post as "Accomplishing your faction mission..." and it should make better sense. I should've included that word for clarification. You get prestige from your faction. If you fail the venture-captain's mission but survive and accomplish your faction mission, you get your prestige award.
Thanks, Josh; that's what I'd originally thought.
The issue at hand, as I understood it, was the current lack of any motivation to complete the venture-captains' missions. Your post seemed to address that, and I was confused.
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From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!
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Contributor
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From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!
Many people enjoy my phat-lewt.
I'm just sayin'.
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From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!Many people enjoy my phat-lewt.
I'm just sayin'.
I wasn't saying that I don't enjoy it. :)
For me the main point of contention is that there are no consequences for failing or succeeding in scenarios beyond missing out on phat-lewt. As NiTessine said this hurts versimillitude and as Navdi says it also reduces the drama. For some, like me, that is enough to encourage us to do our best in the scenarios.
The thing is, if we assume that my characters are members of the Society they must've been aware before they signed up that they wouldn't be getting paid directly by the Society and that their main source of income would be the spoils of war collected by killing people and taking their stuff. Things being the way they are it makes no sense for a character to be in the Society for the moneys, but for the thrill of adventure, because the Society is such a good place to find adventure. Unfortunately, those players who don't want to play mercenary characters that loot everything that isn't nailed down after an encounter (a phenomena which we in Finland have come to call "Pathfinding") will suffer because their characters will lag behind on gaining monetary rewards.
Because of this I feel that the system for gaining money in the Society should be made more abstract: the money gained for encounters shouldn't just reflect stuff stolen from enemies but partial rewards from the Society. What this means is that a group who manages to beat all the encounters will get the full monetary reward for the scenario without the players having to explicitly tell the DM that they're looting everyone's corpses.
This will hopefully satisfy everyone: those calling for versimillitude will be satisfied as they'll now only gain monetary rewards for succesful scenarios (i.e. ones where they managed to beat all the encounters, no matter what means they used to get through them), the hardcore roleplayers can still roleplay out their loot as whatever they like and us, well, I don't wish to use the word power-playing but admittedly more competitive-minded players will still get our phat-lewt.
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From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!Many people enjoy my phat-lewt.
I'm just sayin'.
I wasn't saying that I don't enjoy it. :)
For me the main point of contention is that there are no consequences for failing or succeeding in scenarios beyond missing out on phat-lewt. As NiTessine said this hurts versimillitude and as Navdi says it also reduces the drama. For some, like me, that is enough to encourage us to do our best in the scenarios.
Ah, my new friend. You missed my little joke. I was making a pun and using "phat-lewt" in a completely different way.
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Ah, my new friend. You missed my little joke. I was making a pun and using "phat-lewt" in a completely different way.From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!Many people enjoy my phat-lewt.
I'm just sayin'.
I wasn't saying that I don't enjoy it. :)
For me the main point of contention is that there are no consequences for failing or succeeding in scenarios beyond missing out on phat-lewt. As NiTessine said this hurts versimillitude and as Navdi says it also reduces the drama. For some, like me, that is enough to encourage us to do our best in the scenarios.
...you dirty man...
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...you dirty man...Ah, my new friend. You missed my little joke. I was making a pun and using "phat-lewt" in a completely different way.From a completely gamist point-of-view I see it like this:
1) You get a mission from the Society. Whether you fail or succeed at the mission has no consequences, the mission is just there to provide you with encounters which provide phat-lewt.
2) In addition to your "official" mission you also have a mission from your faction. This mission will not provide you with any extra phat-lewt, but if you succeed you gain prestige within your faction which you can later use to gain phat-lewt.
3) ????
4) Profit!Many people enjoy my phat-lewt.
I'm just sayin'.
I wasn't saying that I don't enjoy it. :)
For me the main point of contention is that there are no consequences for failing or succeeding in scenarios beyond missing out on phat-lewt. As NiTessine said this hurts versimillitude and as Navdi says it also reduces the drama. For some, like me, that is enough to encourage us to do our best in the scenarios.
Now you're grokking me! I feel...known.
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Did I run the same mod all of you did?!
Slave pits was about as tough as overcooked ramen. All of 2 baddies with an AC over 11, and most attacks did less than 1d6 damage!
When I first read this thread I thought I'd be running slave rebellions when the party was captured. Then I read the mod and thought, 'well they have numbers I suppose...'.
After running (twice), I know I screwed one group out of loads of GP by asking if they wanted low tier, and fairly certain the other (mostly first) wouldn't have fared too badly either.
But I should start in Act 1. Both groups came, saw, and conquered the druggies without problem, and in fact pathfind the junkies! Given that they all sell whatever they find at the end of an adventure they're all now drug dealers. In one of the two runs a pair of new players joined us, one of which an andoran paladin that earned the nickname Captain Andoran by shield bashing the junkies.
Act 2 diverged greatly between the two groups. First group misunderstood my description and yelled out 'slave riot!' causing, well, y'know. Group 1 came back early the next day to break in, and extracted the information through quick diplomancy from a Fredrik disguised bard. They also free some slaves (into chelaxian clutches) to the chagrin of the chelaxian wanted some freebies (though he had fun at the market).
Second group bashed down the door, set the lvl 1 sorcerer to guard the door, and beat the information out of Pildapush as he cried for the guard, freeing any slaves they have access to. Rummaging through Pildapush's papers they find his ledgers, understanding he could be charged with tax evasion without them. The group, including a pair of halflings (former slaves) KO'd Pildapush... a few times over. They contemplated torching his place, till they understood a good portion of the district is wood, and the guard is incompetent. Bloodthirsty lot there were.
Acts 3-5 were Dominated by the players, the biggest difference being that group 1's bard shocks the surprise round out of the halfers in act 3 as a bet (on Fredrik's health) is settled. No really, you could've given them +5 PC's Bane weapons and at most 2 people out of the two groups (9 total) might've been downed.
I had fun, and so did my groups, but everyone who GMed this was nonplussed by the... everything. Unarmored junkies is one thing, but sailors and thugs too?
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Did I run the same mod all of you did?!
Slave pits was about as tough as overcooked ramen. All of 2 baddies with an AC over 11, and most attacks did less than 1d6 damage!
When I first read this thread I thought I'd be running slave rebellions when the party was captured. Then I read the mod and thought, 'well they have numbers I suppose...'.
After running (twice), I know I screwed one group out of loads of GP by asking if they wanted low tier, and fairly certain the other (mostly first) wouldn't have fared too badly either.!
Ah. In some ways, it sounds like it ran as expected, though in others you seem to have had an innovative party
The junkies are designed as a pushover encounter. Your party is meant to have fun whomping-butt, taking names and feeling generally badass; so that by the time you reach the main junkie, you have no qualms being rough with him. Many an investigative piece of an adventure dies because the party comes to an interrogation too quickly. They haven't felt their oats yet and don't quite get its ok to smack the puss off some tool to get answers. Letting the party have some fun and get their blood up feeling badass helps to prevent that kind of lag. And its fun to get your blood up and -- what did he do? -- shield bash a bunch of grit den addicts in the puddles! Awesome.
Act 2 is a chance for rogues and for the clever to shine. It pits them against the unbeatable establishment and rewards them with a pushover Pildapush. He's not intended for a combat challenge. I love that your first group could use diplomacy to bluff out a solution and at the same time the second group could simply storm the castle -- and still get a solution. That means the encounter fit more than one play style.
I wrote some unofficial material (didn't make the original cut because it didn't fit the design goals of a PFS) that had the slave revolt you expected, a mega battle in a completely non-canon slave pits, and Vudran monk bodyguards for Pildapush. It's on my blog, so as to keep it separate from all official material. If you want to run that kind of thing outside of the PFS for fun, its here: RPGAggression, just check the back posts and you'll find it.
Act III and Act IV can get very tough - especially if they bleed together. If the party gets caught in the ambush (which as a straight up fight can be easy), then involve the sailors on the boat, this creates a lot of pointless chaff (sailors) in the way, distracting the players from the two BBEGs.
Those who found it tough found themselves in a situation where the trip attacks from the gnolls, the fight with the sailors, and the halflings' ambush all went down at the same time -- just as the party boarded. They wound up with players falling between the ship and the dock and drowning, pronto.
From a design perspective the idea is to reward parties that maintain good discipline: scouts out, approach cautiously, etc. While careless parties find they've wandered into a sort of encounter net wherein they can accidentally pull so much onto themselves they create a difficult tactical environment that kills them handily -- even though many of the individiual combatants seem to be softies.
Parties that take care and handle this right can isolate each encounter group, take them piecemeal, and then have an easier (though, I think, no cake walk) time with the Gnolls.
Parties that wind up tackling the sailors and the halflings at the same time? That can get ugly fast.
If you run this again and would like it to play more toughly, consider careful use of terrain features and advantages (higher ground - sailors have a lot of that too, including the gangplank - hiding, cover, concealement) and the trip attacks near the edge of the dock.
Hope that shares some insight. All in all, sounds like your people had a great time and rocked it out.
- Lou
PS Its neither here nor there for the Society, but the unofficial expansion (for home use only) on RPGAgression goes about act IV more elaborately. NOT appropriate for Society play, but you might enjoy.
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I enjoyed it overall, but do think I cheated some good guys out of the GP.
Though I suppose between mil-spec and gygax-era gamers any mod without APL+4 encounters will not be a challenge.
Something I forgot in my after action report was that whips don't really make for effective weapons unless you are a shackled slave.
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I enjoyed it overall, but do think I cheated some good guys out of the GP.
Though I suppose between mil-spec and gygax-era gamers any mod without APL+4 encounters will not be a challenge.
Something I forgot in my after action report was that whips don't really make for effective weapons unless you are a shackled slave.
How'd the trip attempts work out?
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I have to agree with the previous poster: The encounters are easy if the party has at least one brain among them. If not, well... This is what happened when I ran this at a convention for a group of three walk-ins (Brd1, Bbn1, Rgr1) and member of the local gaming group (Rog1/Sor1):
After the fight with the halflings the Ranger was almost out of hit points and the party's only means of healing was 1 potion of CLW, so he decided to take a breather. The Rogue/Sorcerer decides to talk his way onto the ship and gets a critical success. The crew take him to meet the captain. At the same time the Bard decided a sneak aboard while the Ranger engages the two crewmen on deck with some distracting banter. The Half-orc Barbarian gets bored and heads of to a tavern for a pint or two.
The Rogue/Sorcered discovers the captain's a gnoll, but still continues with his bluff. The Bard is spotted by the other gnoll while sneaking in and the alarm is raised, casting suspicion on the Rogue/Sorcerer, who is put under guard while the two gnolls investigate the ruckus among the slaves. The barbarian returns with his ale and decides to rush aboard the boat. The ranger decides to attack the crewman on deck using his bow.
The Bard is found and promptly killed. The Rogue/Sorcerer tries some sneak attack shenanigans and gets hammered for his troubles. The Barbarian rushes in and gets cleft in half by the first mate. The Ranger follows a round or two later with similar results. The Rogue/Sorcerer smartens up and retreats.
In conclusion: No plan, nor group effort. Result: three dead Pathfinders out of four.
Although I have to admit I had a blast running this module. Again. The players had a ball as well, even though it got quite gruesome.
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I ran this last Tuesday, and overall it went pretty well. The party make up was as follows:
Human Cleric, level 3
Human Monk, level 3
Half-Orc Barbarian, level 1
Human? Bard, level 3
Elven Ranger, level 2
Elven Rogue, 1evel 1
The players mostly enjoyed the scenario, especially since the first two acts were resolved completely without violence, thanks to some good diplomacy rolls, and a judicious use of charm person.
My favorite part was the initial bar-room brawl they walked in to. They got Fredrik out without a spot of violence, thanks to a natural 20 the monk rolled.
The whip worked fine for me, for both Gnolls. The first one, Snarl?, grabbed the cleric and dumped him overboad, but didn't drown thanks to an animate rope spell. The BBEG also used his whip effectively. Both only used it once, according to the stats.
The biggest complaint my players had about the scenario, was how did Pardu make it to the ship before them? They had gone straight there from Pildapush's Chattel. But, the party had been distracted due to the puddlejumpers' ambush, so I reasoned he could have slipped on board.
I don't want to say that the scenario was a cake-walk, but the combat encounters were pretty easy for them, thanks to the three level 3 PCs. Hopefully soon we'll be able to get into the next tier, and provide a nice challenge.
Overall, I liked this scenario. Good work, Lou.
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I ran this last Tuesday, and overall it went pretty well. The party make up was as follows:
Human Cleric, level 3
Human Monk, level 3
Half-Orc Barbarian, level 1
Human? Bard, level 3
Elven Ranger, level 2
Elven Rogue, 1evel 1The players mostly enjoyed the scenario, especially since the first two acts were resolved completely without violence, thanks to some good diplomacy rolls, and a judicious use of charm person.
My favorite part was the initial bar-room brawl they walked in to. They got Fredrik out without a spot of violence, thanks to a natural 20 the monk rolled.
The whip worked fine for me, for both Gnolls. The first one, Snarl?, grabbed the cleric and dumped him overboad, but didn't drown thanks to an animate rope spell. The BBEG also used his whip effectively. Both only used it once, according to the stats.
The biggest complaint my players had about the scenario, was how did Pardu make it to the ship before them? They had gone straight there from Pildapush's Chattel. But, the party had been distracted due to the puddlejumpers' ambush, so I reasoned he could have slipped on board.
I don't want to say that the scenario was a cake-walk, but the combat encounters were pretty easy for them, thanks to the three level 3 PCs. Hopefully soon we'll be able to get into the next tier, and provide a nice challenge.
Overall, I liked this scenario. Good work, Lou.
Awesome, and thanks! I'm really glad everyone is having fun with this - that's the point, afterall. :^)
Josh Frost had a strong hand in this one, so save some kudos for that badboy too. ;^)
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I ran this over the weekend at the our local gameday. I have to say it was a lot of fun.
I especially liked the NPCs. They were fun to role play and they really added to the atmosphere of the module. It also kept an element of roleplaying in a pretty combat heavy module.
The only real problems I had were...
The ineffectiveness of the weapon choices on the part of the enemy combatants.
I ran this at the low tier. Even so, the party had no problems making short work of all their opponents. It really wasn't much of a challenge.
The Puddlejumpers with their 1d4-1 damage were laughable. Even though they handily got the jump on the party, not being rogues their ambush was pretty ineffectual.
The sailors aboard the No Return, while able to take quite a bit of damage, were equally laughable with their 1d4 light hammers. I think this is the first time I have ever actually seen those used in melee. Clubs or scimitars might have made them a little more fierce.
Arming the STR 19 gnolls with whips and hand axes was a bit disappointing. The module artwork shows a gnoll wielding a fearsome looking axe and looking truly dangerous. The reality fell short.
But other than that, it was a fun module to run and the players had a really good time.
The players commented that the NPCs seemed tailor-made to my style of GM'ing. Good times. Kudos to you Mr. Agresta!!
CJ
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Contributor
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I ran this over the weekend at the our local gameday. I have to say it was a lot of fun.
I especially liked the NPCs. They were fun to role play and they really added to the atmosphere of the module. It also kept an element of roleplaying in a pretty combat heavy module.
The only real problems I had were...
** spoiler omitted **But other than that, it was a fun module to run and the players had a really good time.
The players commented that the NPCs seemed tailor-made to my style of GM'ing. Good times. Kudos to you Mr. Agresta!!
CJ
Awesome, glad you liked it! Thanks for the good words.
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Hey, sorry for the questions all over the board, but I'm GMing my first time on Thursday and a little nervous :P
Anyways, I've selected this scenario to run, and I'm wondering if it has a 'bonus' encounter. One that we play through if time permits. From playing a few others, it seems like this is the trend of PFS scenarios, but I can't for the life of me find anything in this one's PDF that makes mention of "If there's enough time, do...." or something along those lines.
Again, sorry for the question-spam. I'm sure I'll have more soon, though :/
Thanks in advance! :D
The optional encounters started with #29.
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The optional encounters started with #29.
#1 Silent Tide had an optional encounter ;-)
Have optional encounters become a regular feature since #29? Sounds like a good idea because:
1) we often have trouble playing a scenario within a four-hour timeslot;
2) Guide to Organised Play 2.1 increased Pathfinder Society sessions to four-to-five hour timeslots - though we'll probably continue to run them as four-hour slots so we can fit three sessions (morning, afternoon, evening, with half-hour breaks for food) per convention game day - though inevitably sessions run through our meal-breaks anyway :-(
3) hopefully it encourages players to focus so they make time for themselves to play the bonus encounter!
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Well I DMed this last night and it went pretty well, all things considered. The encounters were all easily completed, and we finished in about 2.5 hours.
APL -
- 5 first levels
- 1 second level
- Average = 1.167
- Six people +1
- APL = 2.167
- Sub-tier: 1-2
Three PCs barged through the front door, while one PC took each of the back doors they found by checking out the place before entering.
Upon entering, the front PCs attacked the grit thugs. They pulled out weapons, but one PC entered behind Elo and bonked him over the head before he could call Slobber to attack.
The PCs almost engaged the guards in a fight to gain entrance to the Slave Pits, until I described their armor and weapons well enough that one PC calmed the rest of the party down. The guards were paid off a total of 8gp. The party immediately set eyes on the Pildapush sign, and headed over. The party rogue immediately opened the lock with a nice natural 20. Pardu was obviously angry, and threw insults at the PCs until two fighter-types set him straight with nice intimidate checks.
One or two MORE intimidate checks later, and the PCs had access to anything they wanted in his office. (Really, with his intimidate DC at 15, if I calculated correctly, nobody failed a check.) The slaves were set free, some paperwork was taken, as well as the coins in Pardu's pocket.... and his chair, which was left in the middle of the Slave Pits area for some mysterious reason :)
The PCs approached the docks, and spotted two or three small halflings in the crowd, who ran towards the ships as soon as the party got near.
As the party was coming upon the front-most buildings on the docks, two arrows came out of nowhere, hitting the unstealthed rogue and completely missing a fighter-type. (Our casters seemed to all be Small, and behind our larger fighter-types and the rogue.) The rogue sustained 3 hp damage, and the halflings were quickly dealt with. At that point...
...The party caught sight of sailors on the ship, hollering at the party. ("Aww that fight was too quick!", "Come on, WE could do better than those weak halflings!")
I made the gangplanks double movement to slow the party down SOME. The alchemist took out one sailor right away, the other threw his javelin horribly, and got hit with a Fascinate and got tied up. The first-mate gnoll jumped down from the crow's nest at the first chance he got, and moved to take out the bomb-wielding Alchemist, but was tripped by a Summoned creature as he reached the gangplank. I rolled a Reflex for the gnoll, and said he grabbed the top of the gangplank instead, so he could simply be prone on the gangplank instead of holding onto a rope on the side of the ship.
One of the quickest fights: a fighter-type double-moved to Bonegather, while the rogue sneaked to get his sneak attack damage, and the Alchemist bombed him right before the rest of the party was in splash range. I threw two sailors in the Captain's Room behind the party, but one was set on fire with a flask of Alchemist's fire, and the other was sliced in half with a greatsword crit (if I remember correctly...).
And that was that :)
My thoughts: fun scenario, definitely a good one as a first-time DM, but the combats are incredibly easy as the creatures are still 3.5. I think if I DID have a bit more experience in the DM's seat, I may have been able to make some minor on-the-fly adjustments to ramp up combat, while also making some players feel more useful (The majority of combat was taken care of by our Alchemist, fighter-type, and wizard.)
The PCs likely wouldn't know the rule. I'd give them a DC 15 Knowledge (local) to see if they'd heard of the bar and it's rule. Keep in mind, though, that the place is in a full on brawl when the PCs arrive, so a roll might not actually be a good idea here if you want to get the PCs into the thick of things.
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I was actually surprised to read this post, because I've always ran that encounter with Elo yelling a warning "Oi! No weapons in this bar!" before moving in to confront up anyone who draws a weapon.
But on reading the encounter again, I now realise that was just an impression I was left with, it's implied, but not specifically written that way.
Though there's no harm in running that way, it's worked for me. It also allows PCs to make a choice, rather than being randomly attacked by the barkeep without knowing why - whether to wade into the fray with weapons and face the consequences, or to drop their weapons and find other (unarmed) means of resolving the situation - which isn't a bad option, it's not a difficult fight, but PCs tend to become a little too dependent on their weapons, their weapon defines some characters, so it's good to shake their routine up a bit.
Another option could be allowing a DC15 Perception check to notice a "no weapons" sign nailed to the wall among the shelves of bottles and other clutter behind the bar.
