But... but... they milk venomous snakes, don't they? ;)
I realize it may just be me, but I have a severely adverse reaction to the concept of chesty nagas/lizardfolk/etc.As a herpetologist, so do I. The physiology Does Not Work. Reptiles are ovoviviparous or viviparous and do not produce milk to nurse their young any more than birds do.
This said, I've also seen avians drawn with bewbage. It's a trope that seems difficult to escape in fantasy art. Bewbs get pasted randomly where it is very silly to paste them, or exposed in situations where it is silly to expose them. Eg, in combat, under a hail of orc arrows. Because everybody knows that lingerie has the best armor class.
Lots of eyerolls and face palming over here.
Or maybe these creatures didn't "evolve" from standard reptiles, but instead were originally mammalian humanoids that turned into reptilian forms, by [divine] magic or some such. There are plenty of stories of humanoids trying to make a more "perfect" being (hell the latest Spider-Man movie was about this). In that case, these can be hold overs from their original forms.
Or Reptilians/Avians evolving to have Mammalian characteristics?
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Re: naga designs, I actually do like the traditional D&D/PF snake-with-a-humanoid-head approach for their nagas, though I also like having options for other configurations of anatomy for half-snake people. Paizo actually shook design up a bit with the Lunar Nagas, with that race edging towards a "humanoid torso with no arms" design, which seems like a neat and a bit of an alien take on them.
And this recent turn has me wondering again about the dating scene in Kaer Maga. Speaking of...and tying back into the thread:
Have we gotten any more clues about just what the Irridian Veil are about?
What do you mean the Options?
Just to say, but if our old cultures had people that displayed their courage by running naked into combat it seems that some pathfinder cultures would have something similar and if they are also more accepting of gender equality it seems odd to suddenly say, "Nope females can't do this."
Gotta Love The Celts, Picts, Nords, & Gauls...
Land of the Linnorm Kings seems perfect for it... Just give them Furs and send them out.
@Mikaze: Would you increase their CR do to them being able to use Weapons?
Nagas in the Oriental Adventures setting, Rokugan, had humanoid torsos and arms, and snake lower bodies, except that the females could shapeshift into fully humanoid figures.
Earlier Editions had a Special Template though that could be added to Nagas to give them Arms & Shapeshifting into a single Humanoid Form.
3.5 was the First Edition that AFAIK never included it. In fact a dev once said they intentionally left it out.
NOTE: The Template was called True Naga. Bad name but was meant to allow real mythological Naga Stories to be replicated in game.
Creative Director
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Earlier Editions had a Special Template though that could be added to Nagas to give them Arms & Shapeshifting into a single Humanoid Form.
3.5 was the First Edition that AFAIK never included it. In fact a dev once said they intentionally left it out.
NOTE: The Template was called True Naga. Bad name but was meant to allow real mythological Naga Stories to be replicated in game.
Are you talking about LotFR? Because until 3rd edition D&D, templates never really even existed in the game.
And while it's true that LotFR added nagas with arms, that's something from LotFR... previous editions of the game's Oriental Adventures didn't use LotFR at all (they used Kara-Tur).
Nagas in the Oriental Adventures setting, Rokugan, had humanoid torsos and arms, and snake lower bodies, except that the females could shapeshift into fully humanoid figures.
Those were Legend Of Five Rings nagas, not native D&D nagas.
3.25e Savage Species had a magic item called Naga Arms. Basically a shirt that gave armless creatures two arms to use.
I am talking about a Supplement for AD&D that had Templates to allow some of the Monsters to be modified into mythologically correct variants. Albeit it did not sell well do to the fact that it required a lot of work for the DM to actually use.
I mean the True Naga was the easiest to use and it caused a lot of changes.
3.5/Pathfinder oddly enough would make it easier to use...
@TanithT: I am not saying how some have them(i.e. Heroes of Valoria's Lizardmen). Just some minor characteristics.
Woad is the Traditional Marking used in Ceremonies and even then it was only for certain people. They normally wore Pelt that covered their Head and Shoulders alongside Boots and Bracers. The Picts weren't wiped out. They were assimilated into other Cultures.
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Because what we are actually seeing is mostly the stupid stuff that doesn't make sense, eg, female 'fighter' in an itsy bitsy teeny weeny chainmail polka dot bikini on a frickin' glacier striking completely improbable poses.
Anybody else immediately picture Psylocke when they read that sentence?
Because what we are actually seeing is mostly the stupid stuff that doesn't make sense, eg, female 'fighter' in an itsy bitsy teeny weeny chainmail polka dot bikini on a frickin' glacier striking completely improbable poses.Anybody else immediately picture Psylocke when they read that sentence?
You know, she used to wear clothes. More than dental floss clothes, even. Clothes with legs and arms.
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This is my first post on these forums so bare with me. It's nice to talk with all of you!
I noticed the topic of conversation had shifted here and there from representations of homosexuality in the worlds 'cannon' to player and character portrayals and the extent with which people are comfortable with those portrayals among other... interesting... little side topics. :P
I want to post this particular idea of mine here because I feel it is an interesting, on-topic, and I would like to think out-of-the-box portrayal of a homosexual character and personal conflict.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the character and whether or not you would allow him to be in your campaign, whether you think the concept of the character is thought-provoking and interesting, and how well you'd imagine the character might be portrayed, especially by a heterosexual male or even a female (someone who might not be of the characters assumed 'playerhood'). Also, whether or not this character is even plausible given the current knowledge of the races/classes/settings/ect in question (I might have taken some liberties). Really, whatever you'd like to say and how it would make you feel as either GM or companion.
The character is meant for a campaign focused on the story elements and progressions of the characters a little more than simple level and/or mechanic progression. The story has what I would consider to be slightly darker elements than most games are used to (though these elements are only implied in back history). For the sake of simplicity I kept some of the unimportant details out.
The character is a young adult male Samsaran by the name of Yulai, likely only (the relative Samsaran age of) eighteen or so. Now I cannot honestly say with certainty how the actual process of Samsaran reincarnation works (whether or not Samsarans occasionally give birth to reincarnated Samsarans or if a Samsaran who dies immediately reincarnates at the same time and location of the previous, only a baby?), I'm going to just have to assume for this character however he was reincarnated again something somehow intervened.
You see, in Yulai's past life he was a female, just a tad younger than he is now and was hopelessly, truly in love with a human male. They had plans for a wonderful and honest life. A simple life, but their love for each other would make up for it.
Inevitably this was shattered when (possibly coaxed by the human's father) a group of Samsaran hating humans hunted down the couple and tore them apart, dragging what they considered to be an unnatural reincarnating Samsaran witch away from her future husband. Though her lover fought back he was subdued, and after what seemed to her like an eternity of humiliation, torture, and brutality (along with whatever dark implications come with that) the young Samsaran was murdered.
Her damaged soul lingered for a short while before being reincarnated into the now male baby Yulai. Something extraordinary happened as well, because Yulai was not reborn alone, but in fact with (what I believe to be) an unprecedented twin brother, Sonin.
As the two brothers grew they began to recall the memories of their past life. While Sonin retained the stability and levelheadedness of his kin, and the kindness of his past life he was able to accept and forgive the Humans for what they had done to his predecessor.
Yulai, on the other hand, could not let it go... That last hour of two of his predecessors life was unnaturally vivid for him. He could recall her pain, physically and mentally, and it tortured him endlessly... The only solace he had from the despair was he could remember the love she shared for her soon-to-be husband. He remembered loving that man...
Inevitably as the two age, Sonin awakens as an Oracle and despite his best efforts to control and calm his increasingly unstable brother, Yulai leaves and soon finds tutelage under a Changeling Witch. She teaches him the nature and power of her craft, and it is not long before his Patron (possibly what separated their predecessor's soul?) of Vengeance comes to him in the guise of an albino bat. He finds his purpose, to enact revenge on those that damaged him in his past life and find the man for whom his damaged mind and soul cannot help but desperately love... It never even crosses his mind that the men that killed her are nearing the age of becoming elderly and the man she loved is at the very least middle aged now and would not recognize him in this new form.
After a (possibly dire) falling out with his teacher he leaves and works to enact his vengeance, doing whatever necessary to hone his skills and learn from other adventurers any clues or advice that might help him in his quest for revenge, and love.
The purpose of the character is to raise questions such as... Is it okay to take vengeance on someone for what they did years ago? What if they regret what they did? Should it even matter to him at all, he is not the same person as she had been? Ect, ect.
The question relevant to this topic is the question of whether or not his love (obsession?) with his past lives lover will end in happiness or (more than likely) tragedy as he comes to terms with the fact he is not the young woman that man had fallen in love with. He's a young man, the other character has aged more and might not be interested, ect, ect.
As GMs and fellow players how would you feel about a character with this motivation and back story? Would you allow it? Do you feel the homosexual element adds or detracts for the overall thing? Do you think it doesn't matter either way and is easily changeable with no effects to the story? Are the implications of Yulai's past live's final moments too dark a tone, treading through waters better left alone? All these things and more I've seen discussed here. :3
Was that before the brainwashing?
Yes, unfortunately. While far from a Puritan, given she's a female character written by Chris Claremont and all, Psylocke generally went around fully clothed and behaving relatively responsibly for years. Then she got body-swapped, brainwashed, and turned into a buttfloss-wearing adrenaline junkie. The process robbed her of some of depth and replaced it with T&A and a thoroughly confusing, angsty mess.
Which means, yes, a relatively grounded white character got turned into a fanservice-oriented Asian girl gone wild. Some of the worst of it happened under later writers, but Claremont did a lot of the same stuff to Storm a decade prior except that Storm.
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Anybody else immediately picture Psylocke when they read that sentence?You know, she used to wear clothes. More than dental floss clothes, even. Clothes with legs and arms.
Even better, she used to wear *armor*, which automatically makes her smarter than any other telepath (or other non-bulletproof superhero) who wanders around combat situations, ever.
Just to say, but if our old cultures had people that displayed their courage by running naked into combat it seems that some pathfinder cultures would have something similar and if they are also more accepting of gender equality it seems odd to suddenly say, "Nope females can't do this."For starters, the Picts were usually smeared thickly with blue mud (aka woad) to insulate against the cold, and felt it would intimidate their foes if they went into battle naked and with an erection.
How well this worked is somewhat debatable. Against English yew bows, probably poorly. The Picts were wiped out fairly early in history, at least in part because naked versus metal armor and arrows is never, ever going to end well for the naked people.
Um...I don't think the picts ever faced the Welch longbowmen as atleast couple of hundred years separeted them. As to how it worked....they did kinda of stopped the Romans. The Romans even built a wall to keep them out. As somebody else pointed out they were assimilated not beaten militarily.
Though I generally agree on female armor...not the skimpy dress...if you don't have to wear armor you should be able to wear what you want. But my god the chainmail biknis have to go. I will admit I did use them in a adventure...it revolved around theme night at a brothel. But outside of that I just don't see it.
Interesting character, could imagine great roleplay with the right group of the "reunion" with his/her former love.
Thanks. :) I intend on fleshing out the whole idea and hopefully playing it sometimes in the near future. But you're right, it might require more than anything the right kind of group.
Um...I don't think the picts ever faced the Welch longbowmen as atleast couple of hundred years separeted them. As to how it worked....they did kinda of stopped the Romans. The Romans even built a wall to keep them out. As somebody else pointed out they were assimilated not beaten militarily.
Although it's probably worth pointing out that the tactic used by the Picts whenever the Romans did get it into their head to do a bit of warring north of Hadrian's or Antonius's Wall was to harass the invading force with hit-and-run attacks and not get into a large battle with the legionnaires - because when they did the Romans would beat them the way they'd done with the Picts' Gallic and Brittanic relatives.
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Um...I don't think the picts ever faced the Welch longbowmen as atleast couple of hundred years separeted them. As to how it worked....they did kinda of stopped the Romans. The Romans even built a wall to keep them out. As somebody else pointed out they were assimilated not beaten militarily.Although it's probably worth pointing out that the tactic used by the Picts whenever the Romans did get it into their head to do a bit of warring north of Hadrian's or Antonius's Wall was to harass the invading force with hit-and-run attacks and not get into a large battle with the legionnaires - because when they did the Romans would beat them the way they'd done with the Picts' Gallic and Brittanic relatives.
Hit and run and surprise were how anyone beat Rome.
I actually liked the changes to Storm. Not so much the actual mohawked punk phase, but the long term arc of it. At least it was actual character development, not body-swapping and brainwashing. She needed to change from the serene Nature Goddess and it made sense that the change would be drastic. She swung hard to the other extreme and then slowly moved back to a balanced character.Was that before the brainwashing?Yes, unfortunately. While far from a Puritan, given she's a female character written by Chris Claremont and all, Psylocke generally went around fully clothed and behaving relatively responsibly for years. Then she got body-swapped, brainwashed, and turned into a buttfloss-wearing adrenaline junkie. The process robbed her of some of depth and replaced it with T&A and a thoroughly confusing, angsty mess.
Which means, yes, a relatively grounded white character got turned into a fanservice-oriented Asian girl gone wild. Some of the worst of it happened under later writers, but Claremont did a lot of the same stuff to Storm a decade prior except that Storm.
Yeah. I meant to say that Storm's transition went much better. Probably in part because Storm never had a nudity taboo so there wasn't a lot of point in taking all her clothes off. Her Mohawk-era costume different from the previous mostly in lacking a cape and tiara. Then I forgot and posted half a post. :)
Not that Storm has never been objectified and knowing Claremont's tastes the mohawk stuff was fanservice for him, but it didn't come with the same sweaty guy leering sense that Psylocke's reboot generated.
The Roman Legionary were easily beaten by Hit-&-Run Skirmishing. But the Roman Marines & Auxilaria... That is a whole different ball game.
@Kajehase: do you mean Gaelic or Gaulic?
I've experimented with fantasy's effects on relationships, sexuality, and families in the past. In the form of NPCs or PCs, I've including things like wizards who are married to their familiars (transmuted into humanoid form), a psychic warrior who was the bastard child of two women, and other unusual things. It's interesting to think about what magic and the fantastic add to the world.
I think things like this can add a lot of flavor to a campaign, invoke interesting concepts and what-if scenarios, and provoke the imagination. And I agree with the staff. It's nice to live in a world where people can be more accepting than in reality. It's somewhat sad that D&D worlds full of violence, conflict, and murderous hobos are ultimately better places to live than our own.
@Kajehase: do you mean Gaelic or Gaulic?
In this context, Gaul tends to basically mean "Celtic people who lived in Western Europe, north of the Iberian peninsula, including present-day France, Northern Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, the British Isles, and Ireland," and Gael is usually used to describe the Celtic people of Ireland, and, after the joining together of the Pictish kingdom(s) with that of the Dál Riata into the kingdom of Alba (which took place more than half a millennia after the Romans evacuated Britain), Scotland - so when I used the word Gallic, I mean Gallic, that is, the Celtic peoples living in the Roman provinces of Gallia Cisalpina, Gallia Narbonensis, Gallia Lugdunensus, Gallia Belgica, and Gallia Aquitania.
Gauls were Germanic not Celtic...
They did have some overlap but not enough.
*facepalm* Really? That's going to be a big surprise to a lot of people.
Maybe you should look deeper into it besides a Wikipedia Article which draws from some of the Most biased sources.
Especially since, while they do share a common origin, they actually are distinct Cultures. The only thing they seem to really have in common is Physical Characteristics.
Ok. Up until last year Celt was considered the Ethnicity. Until Last Year they discovered that their are distinct differences in the Historical meanings.
It is a mistake do to the fact that earlier Historians were basing their information on Roman writings.
But most older historians still dispute it because they deny the fact that they are wrong.
Ironically, they are now calling the Ethnicity Kelt.
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Vive le Galt!
Live the Galt? or do you mean Viva Le Galt meaning Galt Alive?
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I mean "Long Live the Glorious People's Revolution!"
Ok. Up until last year Celt was considered the Ethnicity. Until Last Year they discovered that their are distinct differences in the Historical meanings.
It is a mistake do to the fact that earlier Historians were basing their information on Roman writings.
But most older historians still dispute it because they deny the fact that they are wrong.
Ironically, they are now calling the Ethnicity Kelt.
Fayth, I don't mean any insult, but can I ask where you're writing from? I studied Latin long enough to translate Caesar's Gallic Conquests (that's just Latin 3 in high school, not so grandiose as it sounds) and I always understood the Gauls and Germans as distinct groups, both in the Roman view, and their historical cultures.
Now Germanic Tribes were divided. The region was inhabited by the Gauls and at least 3 other Tribes.
Last Year was when it was accepted. It was proposed and supported back in 2001.
The reason why I haven't posted a link is the fact that you can't access it freely. The only reason why I ca is I help out with some research on Weapons & such.
& You have to remember that Caesar also said they dyed themselves B;ue and charged into battle with erections. Both of which have since been proven false.
Ironically, Caesar called the Gauls and such Barbarians but these so called "Barbarians" viewed the Romans as the savages. I think there are records of a Chief commenting on how the Romans "mated" in the open like Animals.
Just provide the citation, Azaelas (journal name, article title, issue # and so on) and I'm sure someone on here has access and can provide a summary of the research. Or perhaps this was a paper presented at a conference? Which one? By whom?
I must say that my experience of historical scholarship (of humanities scholarship in general) isn't mapping onto what you seem to be describing. Who did the proposing and to whom and in what context?
The resource I have is a encyclopedia specific dealing with the European Cultures Pre-Pike & Shotte Era. The problem I am running into is my laptop is in the middle of updating so I can't access my Client til tomorrow.
Oh, well, that's easy enough then. Just let us know when you can the titles of the encyclopedia and the specific article. I'm sure I can access it through the university.