Barring the non-OGL iconics like the kuo-toa, umber hulks, illithids, and such...
...what do you think should be included in a campaign primarily in the Dark Down Under?
What kind of settings?
What kind of creatures?
What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
Gugs and ghouls.A race of Koa-toan like creatures who worship the Burrower below. Sort of like deep ones from H.P. Lovcraft but more about the Darklands than the sea.
Check.
I've always found the Morlocks from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine to be a great concept which was rather bland and underdeveloped in D&D. A reimagining of those creatures would be a fine addition to an undercrawl.
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I've always found the Morlocks from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine to be a great concept which was rather bland and underdeveloped in D&D. A reimagining of those creatures would be a fine addition to an undercrawl.
I totally concur. D&D has a strong tradition of using "variants" of surface creatures in Underdark settings such as drow, derro/duergar, svirfneblin, etc. I would like to see Paizo's take on a human "variant" based in the Underdark.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I've always found the Morlocks from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine to be a great concept which was rather bland and underdeveloped in D&D. A reimagining of those creatures would be a fine addition to an undercrawl.
This was discussed in this week's chat, actually. I think most people agreed that there should be Morlockishness, even though grimlocks and other D&D monsters sort-of-but-not-quite fill that role.
vegepygmies!Are they edible? do they cause hallucinations if ingested?
That would be an interesting aspect, especially if it was addictive. There could be a clan of junkie bugbears who get really, really bent out of shape when adventurers come clunking along and start to hack up their "stash"...
I totally concur. D&D has a strong tradition of using "variants" of surface creatures in Underdark settings such as drow, derro/duergar, svirfneblin, etc. I would like to see Paizo's take on a human "variant" based in the Underdark.
This was discussed in this week's chat, actually. I think most people agreed that there should be Morlockishness, even though grimlocks and other D&D monsters sort-of-but-not-quite fill that role.
I'm rather partial to derro, myself, and have used duergar as foes as well. The drow are indeed the epitome of the evil underground dweller, but I've been burned out on them for years.
The only time I've seen any sort of degenerate subterranean human races were in Grayhawk, with Suel refugees that remained in the tunnels under the mountains after the Rain of Colorless Fire. They really weren't utilized or developed, however.
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Creative Director
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There are a lot of degenerate underground humanoids that fill the morlock role in D&D. Grimlocks, meazels, gibberlins, mites, snyads... the list goes on. Maybe these guys are, as a group, categorized under the "MORLOCK" heading?
Funny Trivia Moment: In the 1st edition Monster Manual... there actually IS a morlock. It's the morkoth, on page 71. Check out the first sentance of its description:
"The morkoth, or morlock, is a dim, shadowy monster often referred to as the "wraith of the deep."
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That would be an interesting aspect, especially if it was addictive. There could be a clan of junkie bugbears who get really, really bent out of shape when adventurers come clunking along and start to hack up their "stash"...vegepygmies!Are they edible? do they cause hallucinations if ingested?
I was thinking more along the line of Trogladyte's that breed the little pygmies and when they get old (read : Ripe) they are harvested for "medicinal purposes."
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Funny Trivia Moment: In the 1st edition Monster Manual... there actually IS a morlock. It's the morkoth, on page 71. Check out the first sentance of its description: "The morkoth, or morlock, is a dim, shadowy monster often referred to as the "wraith of the deep."
Yeah but does it have a squid like head with a bird's beak and butterfly like wings with tentacles for appendages?
Please say that you are not going to have mushroom men. PleaseWe DO have fungus people in our Darklands. Lucky for you, the myconids aren't open content: vegepygmies!
I met a Myconid once. He was a real FUN GUY!!!
Wesley: Ummm...check what? Gugs? Deep Ones? Both? WHAT?!
There are a lot of degenerate underground humanoids that fill the morlock role in D&D. Grimlocks, meazels, gibberlins, mites, snyads... the list goes on. Maybe these guys are, as a group, categorized under the "MORLOCK" heading?
I've always been fond of the meazels. I've used them quite a bit. (I always thought that the 3E Choker was simply an evolutionary step for the meazel, so it wouldn't have to go around with a garrote any more...)
The rest of the "small, obnoxious, but not overly dangerous" fare that spawned from the Fiend Folio just never seemed that appealing...except for the jermalaine. I loved those little guys almost as much as my players hated them.
Funny Trivia Moment: In the 1st edition Monster Manual... there actually IS a morlock. It's the morkoth, on page 71. Check out the first sentance of its description:
"The morkoth, or morlock, is a dim, shadowy monster often referred to as the "wraith of the deep."
*goes to doublecheck* By George, he's right!
Speaking of degenerates, a cult of Jubilex would work well in Second Darkness.
One of my favorite underdark adventures was "Night Below" in 2nd ed. One of my players' most memorable encounters from that game was the abandoned temple of Jubilex. There was a near TPK in that area, with all the various oozes that attacked them. It shook them up so badly that they never went back, even after they'd taken out everything else in the adventure...aboleth savants, a pit fiend, a 17th level derro savant...and they were more than twice the level they were when they first went there.
I even asked them, "Do you want to hit that temple on your way out?" The resulting answer was a "Hell no!" in unison. Oozes really creep my players out.
Awesome. The mention of morlocks makes me think of Descent. Which inspires a mental image of a morlock Mammy Graul.
I need to go take an aspirin now. ;(
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What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
Gratuitous minecart chase sequences! With lava.
Other than that...
Building up a neutral or even benign underground society of Ooze Creatures(from Advanced Bestiary) has been on my list of things to do for my setting for a while. Those are open content I believe.
Which inspires a mental image of a morlock Mammy Graul.
I am so angry with you right now.
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Barring the non-OGL iconics like the kuo-toa, umber hulks, illithids, and such...
...what do you think should be included in a campaign primarily in the Dark Down Under?
What kind of settings?
What kind of creatures?
What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
I just ran an underground adventure involving lavatubes, firenewts and striders.
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I dont have my note with me right now but I had plotted out a underdark campaign adapting the FR mega adventure "City of the Spider Queen". At first I thought that this adventure was more or less a massive dungeon crawl but after reading it I saw alot of potential for some really great roleplaying as well.
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Barring the non-OGL iconics like the kuo-toa, umber hulks, illithids, and such...
...what do you think should be included in a campaign primarily in the Dark Down Under?
What kind of settings?
What kind of creatures?
What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
Periods of claustrophobia (tight, dark tunnels that twist so you can't see what's coming, but carry echoes of hideous portent from unknown distances)...
The occasional huge cavern, eerily lit by luminescent fungi clinging to the ceiling far above. The open space allows stirge-like flying critters to come at you in a blood frenzy...
Black lakes connected by completely submerged tunnels, bathed in impenetrable darkness. An aboloth plots below and sends slimy two-legged servants that stink of decaying fish to crawl from the water and stare coldly at every form of mammal life...
Aberrations that are so large and other-wordly that they ignore the adventurers, like busy adults ignore ants and just go about their incomprehensible business...
An abandoned city of weird geometries, 'traps' that are only dangerous because their alien function is unknown, and desperate scavengers looking for a meal...
Psionics...
Intelligent insects (especially those with a hive mind)...
Non-humanoid golems/living constructs...
1-3 survivors of a lost surface expedition who SEEM normal, but are either 1) dangerously mad from their ordeal, 2) under the influence/control of something sinister and local...
(NO dragons, liches, PC races, fey, or surface animals sporting underdark dress-up!)
Bah.. you're all nuts. All you need is hot female drow in leather that want to make your their submissive plaything and your underdark campaign is set. :)
Hmmm...I like the way you think.
Barring the non-OGL iconics like the kuo-toa, umber hulks, illithids, and such...
...what do you think should be included in a campaign primarily in the Dark Down Under?
What kind of settings?
What kind of creatures?
What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
Periods of claustrophobia (tight, dark tunnels that twist so you can't see what's coming, but carry echoes of hideous portent from unknown distances)...
The occasional huge cavern, eerily lit by luminescent fungi clinging to the ceiling far above. The open space allows stirge-like flying critters to come at you in a blood frenzy...
Black lakes connected by completely submerged tunnels, bathed in impenetrable darkness. An aboloth plots below and sends slimy two-legged servants that stink of decaying fish to crawl from the water and stare coldly at every form of mammal life...
Aberrations that are so large and other-wordly that they ignore the adventurers, like busy adults ignore ants and just go about their incomprehensible business...
An abandoned city of weird geometries, 'traps' that are only dangerous because their alien function is unknown, and desperate scavengers looking for a meal...
Psionics...
Intelligent insects (especially those with a hive mind)...
Non-humanoid golems/living constructs...
1-3 survivors of a lost surface expedition who SEEM normal, but are either 1) dangerously mad from their ordeal, 2) under the influence/control of something sinister and local...
(NO dragons, liches, PC races, fey, or surface animals sporting underdark dress-up!)
Awesome ideas. Especially that survivors thing. That's just inspired.
...Has there ever been a published adventure with a morkoth? I mean, ever? As far as I know, it's the only 1E MM monster that was never used.
Barring the non-OGL iconics like the kuo-toa, umber hulks, illithids, and such...
...what do you think should be included in a campaign primarily in the Dark Down Under?
What kind of settings?
What kind of creatures?
What kind of exotic anomolies that make the subterranean adventure different from a normal one?
What do you think about the Basilik (see R.A Salvatore books) ? Or the Hydre ?
What do you think about the Greek mythology (Hades) and the Cerber (A moloss with 2 heads) ?
Geological formations filled with myriad of crystals, instead of pelrinage of pagan and abandoned gods.
Titanic caves filled with salt lakes containing worms. Ancient creatures from another age(wink to JRRT).
Passages choking and poisoned by the sufur and the lack of oxygen.
You probably don't want to write this one with me in mind. It's very unlikely that I'll run an underdark campaign. I'm most likely to plunder it for encounter ideas.
Since you asked, my essential element: Do not make me embarrassed to buy the thing. Avoid all Drizzt connotations, but do make it so that I don't feel morally icky that the most popular black-skinned fantasy race is the evil one. (When I played a Drow, I'd periodically turn to PCs who disagreed with my character and say, "It's because I'm black, isn't it?" Good times.) Have the society make a lick of sense. If the society's matriarchal, have the illustrators make the male drow wear the uncomfortable, revealing clothing and impractical footwear, not the women.
lol
...Has there ever been a published adventure with a morkoth? I mean, ever? As far as I know, it's the only 1E MM monster that was never used.Shackled City AP, Foundation of Flame has a half-fiend Morkoth.
Silly me. Of course it'd be Paizo that'd rectify the lack. :)
I'd like to get a party into the Darklands right away. Like at 1st level. I thought of a scenario where they're hired by a merchant who's a known thrill seeker and risk taker. He's discovered an old ruined tower with a dungeon level that has an entrance to the Darklands. He hires the party to clear out the tower of "squatters" - namely goblins. Afterwards he retains them as added muscle for his venture.
Long story short...some sort of cave-in separates the PCs from the rest of the group and they have to make it on their own.
Besides the obvious (goblins, jermlaine, vermin, green slime, darkmantles) what are some good low-level challenges for a Darklands campaign?
Terrain, followed by more terrain. Really gives the feeling of lost to have to overcome basic climbs, swims, and jumps. Also reminds players that a character's life is more than defeating monsters. But just before that gets boring- albino crocs in the river, swarms of spiders in the chasm, and dire bats in caves on the cliff.
Evidence of the mines that were the purpose of the tunnels connecting to the surface, containing the restless dead forms of the trapped miners.
A normal village in a cavern- with no signs of residents or how the village got here. But indications that the villagers just left.
Shackled City AP, Foundation of Flame has a half-fiend Morkoth.
Hehehe...yeah. When that thing actually came out of the water after them, my players sh...er, defecated building materials.
Because they've been so overdone and done badly so often I've thought about having a "no drow" campaign and just using other Darklands critters.
But I think my own group would start chanting "Blasphemy!" and begin chucking stones at me.
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In a way Drow are an iconic underdark race. I dont think that you can think about the underdark without thinking (wether you love em or hate em)about drow. Really I have mixed feelings about them. On the one hand their wicked cool villians, but on the other they are really over used and everyone knows more or les what to expect from them. Im really hoping in this AP that the drow will have some kind of twist or special to reinvigorate such a classic race.
Please say that you are not going to have mushroom men. Please
I actually like them, with butter & garlic, of course!
Please say that you are not going to have mushroom men. PleaseI actually like them, with butter & garlic, of course!
I thougt you talking about the drow ! :-)
In a way Drow are an iconic underdark race. I dont think that you can think about the underdark without thinking (wether you love em or hate em)about drow. Really I have mixed feelings about them. On the one hand their wicked cool villians, but on the other they are really over used and everyone knows more or les what to expect from them. Im really hoping in this AP that the drow will have some kind of twist or special to reinvigorate such a classic race.
In one of my home-brewed worlds I replaced the drow with a different race of subterranean elves. They were tall and pale. One would think they were albinos like most cave-species, except that their eyes were pools of darkness.
I kept the spider affinity, and a goddess that had some similarity to Lolth, but gave them a taste for necromancy and a habit of raiding surface settlements for subjects to experiment on, then releasing the ones that "survived" back on the surface. My players seemed to hate them appropriately, so I call it a success.