While I didn't think I would run another 3.5 campaign until 4E arrived, I'm sick of waiting and I'm digging Pathfinder so much. Hook Mountain totally put me over the top!
Anyway, if I do run another 3.5 campaign, I want to shake things up, and I don't mean just add a bunch of new classes.
I will definitely add an action point system, probably replace the druid with the PHB2 variant, and use some kind of variant casting system (spell points, Arcana Evolved, etc).
So what variant rules are people using for their Pathfinder campaign?
I've allowed my players to use the Midnight heroic paths (I think thats the name). Basically each level they get a special ability. Just had to be careful they are the more balanced ones with the class they take (ie A monk cant take the speed path). So far it has given some fun moments of intrest but nothing balance breaking. It was great when Old Scarzenti was talked down using Rational Discourse.
I have about 10 pages of house rules:
http://www.mindflayer.de/kaeyoss/RPG/Houserules.pdf
I'm using the following:
Crafting Points: from Unearthed Arcana.
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Sorceror and Wizards: (Various alterations taken from a thread on Paizo boards)
1d6 Hitdice
Skills are 4+ Int
Base Attack Bonus of 0-15
May take a Bonus Feat instead of Summon Familiar
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Sin Wizard Specialization: (Availabel to PCs and NPcs)
The Deadly 7 Sins (Descriptions taken from blog entry on Paizo.)
Note: The abilites are of my own design and I may make alterations as I see them worked out. But as it stands so far, they are working well and have not come across anything gamebreaking/overpowered as of yet.
Envy Focused on the suppresion of magic other then your own.
Specialization: Abjuartion
Prohibited School: Evocation and Necromancy
Level 1 2+ saves vs magic and spell-like abilities, DR 5/Magic
Level 5 2+ caster level to Abjuration spells.
Level 10 Additional 2+ caster level to Abjuration spells.
Level 15 May re-roll the result the die roll of an abjuration spell. Second roll stands. (re-roll Dispell Checks, Spell Turning, Prismatic Wall, etc.)
Level 20
Sloth Focused on calling agents and misions to perform your deeds for you, or use magic to create what you need as you need it.
Specialization Conjuration
Prohibited School Evocation and Illusion
Level 1 Duration of Conjuration spells are doubled.
Level 5 Summoned Creatures have an additional 2+ HD.
Level 10 Summoned Creatures have an additional 4+ to Str, Dex, and Con scores.
Level 15 Summoned Creatures have an additional 4+ bonus to Attacks Rolls, Damage Rolls, and Saves.
Level 20
Lust Focused on using magic to control and dominate others to force them to satisfy your desires.
Specialization Enchantment
Prohibited School Necromancy and Transmutation
Level 1 2+ saves vs mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities. 2+ Caster level to enchantment spells.
Level 5 2+ DCs to enchantment spells.
Level 10 Additional 2+ saves vs mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities.
Level 15 2+ DCs to enchantment spells.
Level 20
Wrath Focused on the destructive powers of magic, and the use of magic to channel destructive forces.
Specialization Evocation
Prohibited School Abjuration and Conjuration
Level 1 May re-roll 1's on the results of Evocation spells. The second roll stands.
Level 5 2+ DCs to evocation spells.
Level 10 May re-roll 1's and 2's on the results of Evocation spells. The second roll stands.
Level 15 2+ DCs to evocation spells.
Level 20
Pride Focused on using magic to perfect your own appearance and your domain through trickery and illusion.
Specialization Illusion
Prohibited School Transmutation and Conjuration
Level 1 2+ DCs to Illusion spells.
Level 5 Duration of Illusion spells are extended by half. Does not stack with Extend Spell feat.
Level 10 2+ saves vs mind-affecting spells and spell-like abilities.
Level 15 2+ DCs to Illusion spells.
Level 20
Gluttony Focused on the use of magic to manipulate the physical self in order to maintain an unending thirst for continued life.
Specialization Necromancy
Prohibited School Enchantment and Abjuration
Level 1 2+ saves vs Death Affects and Poisons
Level 5 Undead under the control of the Sin Wizard of Gluttony have a bonus 2+ to Attack Rolls, Damage, and Saves.
Level 10 Undead created by the Sin Wizard of Gluttony have max HP/HD.
Level 15 May re-roll 1's on the results of Necromancy spells. The second roll stands.
Level 20
Greed Focused on the use of magic to transform things into objects of greater value or use, and to enhance the physical self.
Specialization Transmutation
Prohibited School Enchantment and Illusion
Level 1 Duration of Transmutation spells extended by half. Does not stack with Extend spell.
Level 5 2+ caster level to Transmutation spells.
Level 10 2+ DCs to Transmutation spells.
Level 15 A failed Transmutation spell may automatically be re-cast the following round with a successful Concentration check as a standard action.
Level 20
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Bonus Feat Progression: Level: 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20 (This idea was also taken from a thread on these boards.)
General Feats
Acrobatic
Agile
Alertness
Animal Affinity
Armor Proficiency Light
Armor Proficiency Medium
Armor Proficiency Heavy
Athletic
Deceitful
Deft Hands
Diligent
Endurance
Great Fortitude
Investigator
Iron Will
Lightning Reflexes
Magical Aptitude
Martial Weapon Proficiency
Negotiator
Nimble Fingers
Persuasive
Self-Sufficient
Shielf Proficiency
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Stealthy
Toughness
Item Creation Feats
Brew Potion
Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Craft Rod
Craft Staff
Craft Wand
Craft Wonderous Item
Forge Ring
Scribe Scroll
So what variant rules are people using for their Pathfinder campaign?
Nooo! He asked. Must. Be. Strong. Resist.
....
....
....
No....
Must....
Resist....
I'm a weak, weak man.
I eagerly implemented J.J.'s use of giving a free feat at first level (as was noticed when looking at the crunch behind the icons).
I apply "eschew materials" to all spellcasting completely and automatically, regardless of the *cost* of the material.
All characters gain a free rank in Knowledge Local (I separate by cities) *and* a skill of their choice.
All spellcasters can craft potions, items, scolls, and constructs so long as their spellcraft has sufficient ranks to yield a successful roll, and the character in question has sufficient gold/ supplies.
For Turning, I allow the characters divine level to add to the number of Turns per day.
In determining the results of Dispel Magic, I also factor in the appropriate ability modifier to the roll.
I allow for feats such as Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Fortitude, and Improved Initiative to stack.
After 3rd level, characters can ignore how many rations, water, ammunition they carry and just deduct a monthly sum. (If they come across special ammunition such as adamantine arrows, they *always* need to keep track of these.)
I try to create a special effect as appropriate to every character. For the most part, it's after a certain event in the game is triggered. I'm slowly revealing that Valeros has a weapon of legacy. Kyra has gained the Paladin ability of Aura of Courage, Merisiel has a dagger that became a bane vs. Undead, and I need to come up with something for Seoni (maybe after she tangles with the Dragon).
I try to make all of my characters witness first-hand the repercussions of their actions. If they constantly act heroic and pre-emptively perservere against otherwise impossible odds, they continue to become shrouded with whispers of their legend and doors open with contacts and aid.
I'm going to be using a number of classes from Arcana Evolved and I will probably mine that source for a few of the tweaks to the combat, feat and skill systems.
For example: Tumble is an opposed roll vs. an attack roll, Trapfinding isn't limited to Rogues, two-weopon fighting is a bit different, Escape artist ignores size mods, etc.
I will be using Action Points too.
Unlike some other posters, no one has expressed an interest in changing the magic system, so any spellcasters will be using 3.5 rules.
I'm going to be using a number of classes from Arcana Evolved and I will probably mine that source for a few of the tweaks to the combat, feat and skill systems.
For example: Tumble is an opposed roll vs. an attack roll, Trapfinding isn't limited to Rogues, two-weopon fighting is a bit different, Escape artist ignores size mods, etc.
I will be using Action Points too.
Unlike some other posters, no one has expressed an interest in changing the magic system, so any spellcasters will be using 3.5 rules.
I like the tumble idea. In your game for that useage, do you have that option as a readied action, an action they can only use once/ attack round, once/ target, or as their only action to avoid all attacks (essentially their roll either substitutes or adds to their AC vs. *all* rolls)? If someone attempts to tumble, is that used instead of their AC regardless of the roll?
So what variant rules are people using for their Pathfinder campaign?
Here are mine optional rules and houserules:
Character Creation: 35 point-buy. Standard races / classes (PHB, DMG) only but with racial substitution levels from Races of books (other classes possible such as swashbuckler). Starting HP are Class's Hit Die roll result + Constitution score to compensate for not having "fun" at low levels 1 to 3 (HP at higher levels are at -1 to compensate for this advantage up to a level equal to starting CON-score). Higher level characters start at 1/2 level lower than still existing group member.
Critical Fumbles: Natural roll of 1. Confirm by "missing" again. If confirmed something happens (usually loosing next move action, falling prone, loosing weapon, etc.)
Death Threshold = negative of CON-score (max. -20)
Stabilization chance = CON-score %
Natural Recovery Rate = + CON-modifier (min. 1 point)
Massive Damage Saving Throw = 10 + 1 per 5 points of damage taken
Enahnced Syngery Bonuses: rank 5-9 +2, rank 10-14 +4, rank 15-19 +6, etc.
Tumble past opponents is opposed tumble vs. "REF-save" (tumbling through opponent square +10 bonus to REF
Save or Die effects lessened. No instant death but character drops to -1d20 hit points (i.e. death or unconscious and dying)
From UA: Flaws, Traits, Power Components
From Rules Compendium: Aid Another Expert Assistance. "Taking 10"
I'm very likely to play the "Book Game" with my players.
I've found a real problem running non-WotC adventure paths: the adventures are generally limited to OGL materials plus a smattering of other monsters/feats/etc. If the entire WotC library is opened up to the players, they have thousands of options that the enemies can't or don't use and the adventures don't contemplate (such as swift actions, unlimited per-day abilites per the warlock, etc.). I know I can "update" my villains and encounters with the shiny new stuff, but that's not why I run adventure paths: I run adventure paths to make things easier for me as DM.
The "Book Game" is when we sit down at the beginning of the campain, and each player picks a book that all the players can use in the campaign beyond the PHB, DMG, and MM (and Pathfinder Player's Guide, in this case). If it isn't in one of the 5-7 books they pick, no player can use it at all in the course of the campaign. There is a great deal of discussion and negotiation among the players about their book selections. At least one of the spellcasters generally takes the Spell Compendium, and people otherwise pick books based on a class they want to play (such as PHBII or Complete Warrior) or a "theme" they want (such as Heroes of Horror or Draconomicon). I'm free to also take bits out of the player's books, but I'm unlikely to do a lot of that (if a player picks Heroes of Horror, I may use taint rules, for example).
The "Book Game" also makes packing for the game much easier on the shoulderbag, too, for when we don't play at my place.
I like the tumble idea. In your game for that useage, do you have that option as a readied action, an action they can only use once/ attack round, once/ target, or as their only action to avoid all attacks (essentially their roll either substitutes or adds to their AC vs. *all* rolls)? If someone attempts to tumble, is that used instead of their AC regardless of the roll?
You can't use it to avoid a regular attack, it only allows you to attempt to avoid AoO as part of a move action of up to 20 feet.
If your tumble check exceeds the attack roll for the AoO, you avoid it as you go past. The target is attack roll +5 to go through your opponent's square. If anyone on your path beats your tumble roll, you suffer the attack, but I suppose it still might miss your AC. I always assumed that the same die roll from the opposed roll would then be used for the attack of opportunity.
5 ranks of tumble still give bonuses to fighting defensively and total defense.
Here's what I started with:
- DM Review: First and foremost, all players’ character’s race, class, feats, and equipment must be reviewed by the DM prior to the first session.
- Core Race Changes:
Half-Elves: Same as listed in the Player’s Handbook, with the following addition.
• Human Heritage: Half-elves gain 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level. (The 4 extra skill points at 1st level are added on as a bonus, not multiplied in; see Chapter 4: Skills of the Player’s Handbook). Half-elves are just as versatile and capable as humans.Half-orcs have the following racial traits:
• +2 Str, -2 Int or -2 Cha. All half-orcs draw strength from their orcish ancestry while their human side tends to make them intelligent yet slightly introverted or charismatic and a slow-learner.
• Medium size
• Base land speed of 30 feet
• Darkvision 30 ft
• Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs treat the orc double axe and the orc shot-put as martial weapons, not exotic weapons.
• Orc Blood: See Player’s Handbook page 19 for details.
• +2 racial bonus on Intimidate. Half-orcs are naturally brusque and use that to their advantage.
• +2 racial bonus on Survival. Having been outcasts, half-orcs know how to fend for themselves.
• Languages: See Player’s Handbook page 19 for details.
• Favored Class: Barbarian
These supercede the standard half-orc racial traits found in the Player’s Handbook.- Stacking Synergy: Every 5 ranks in a skill will add a +2 synergy bonus to its associated skills. I.e.: 10 ranks in Balance grants +4 to Tumble.
- Relative Encumbrance: Encumbrance will only be enforced in a common sense, non-screwing-the-PCs, manner. You can carry your adventuring gear and loot, but if you try carrying your gear, the pack mule, a solid mahogany table, the solid bronze statue, and the minotaur barbarian’s corpse, you’ll incur a penalty.
- Class Variables: Racial substitution levels and class variants may be utilized.
- Action Points: The action point system is being used. Uses found in both the Eberron Campaign Setting and Unearthed Arcana may be used.
- Hero Points: You PCs are heroes and occasionally, as heroes often do, you need to tell the laws of physics and/or fickle fingers of fate to sit down and shut up. A hero point does just that. By using one, you briefly cinematize the rest of your turn, making whatever grandiose and epic feat your character partakes in happen without any dice rolls. You could conceivably do anything from flicking a burning tindertwig into a bar patron’s pipe that’s 100 feet away or slice through all 10 heads of the marauding hydra at once, killing it instantly. However the only caveat is this: the idea must be your own. You cannot use anyone else’s suggestion for your hero point.
You start with only one hero point. At the end of a session where you use a hero point, the party will vote on whether or not your use of the hero point was “hero worthy”. If the party agrees, then you gain that hero point back. If this system begins to be abused, I (the DM) will revoke this system or worse; give NPCs hero points. This system is meant as something to enhance game play, not break it.
The only other way you can gain a hero point is if you do something amazingly heroic by only using die rolls. In example: If you take a flying leap off the side of a cliff to save the falling noble, catch up to them, secure them to you, then throw a grappling hook out to grab at the lone branch at the last second before impact, then you’ll gain another hero point. As long as you have a hero point, there is no limit as to how many hero points you can spend per session.
- Critical Fumble: If you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll, you will need to roll again. If you fail to hit the target’s AC a second time, you fumble. A fumble could be anything from simply dropping your weapon to injuring yourself or a party member, as decided upon by the DM.
- Disclaimer: These house rules may not be the only ones that will be used. Rules may be added or taken away as the campaign progresses, as per DM/PCs consensus.
We got rid of the Hero Points before the game even started. I'm running with five PCs and with the Action Points, that much "Win" for the players would've just been too much like a video game. Also, dogslicers aside, my PCs voted to get rid of the Critical Fumble rule.
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While I didn't think I would run another 3.5 campaign until 4E arrived, I'm sick of waiting and I'm digging Pathfinder so much. Hook Mountain totally put me over the top!
Anyway, if I do run another 3.5 campaign, I want to shake things up, and I don't mean just add a bunch of new classes.
I will definitely add an action point system, probably replace the druid with the PHB2 variant, and use some kind of variant casting system (spell points, Arcana Evolved, etc).
So what variant rules are people using for their Pathfinder campaign?
- Wounds and Vitality from UA (fine tuned, not straight out of the book)
- Action Points from UA (fine tuned, not straight out of the book)- Racial Paragon levels from UA
- Alternative class features for barbarians and monks from UA
- Armor as CA/DR from UA (fine tuned, not straight out of the book)
- Re-haul of the vancian magic system, usign the rules from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed (fine tuned, not straight out of the book), involving both spontaneous and prepared spellcasters, and also warlocks
- Dodge and parry actions based on a class specific progressive modifier, from the Conan RPG (Mongoose), along a couple of custom built feats and some fine-tuning
- Combat Maneuvres from The Book of Iron Might, freeform type (Malhavoc Press)
- Fear Ratings for horrible creatures and otherworldy magical effects from Darkness & Dread (Fantasy Flight Games)
To sum them up, these variants create a more flexible and potentially powerful character, but the game is also way more deadly, so the whole picture is quite balanced and has a nice "gritty" feeling that I like a lot - and it's also appreciated by my players, who like the combo of heroic fantasy + Call of Cthulhu like overall deadliness.
Can't wait to play a couple of sections from issue #2 and #3, where fear factors will be heavily involved.
Also using a bunch of other elements taken here and there from various sources (mostly Green Ronin, Mongoose, Fantasy Flight and Goodman Games), such as prayers for clerics and paladins using turning attempts or lay on hands points, various PrCs and NPC core classes, feats and variants for creatures.
So what variant rules are people using for their Pathfinder campaign?
AD&D 2nd Edition. ;)
Sick Dwarf, Sick Dwarf
We started Discussing this last night
Our first one is the Bonus NON Combat Feat at every even Level does someone have the link to Thread about it (this is in discussion right now)
We are going to allow all the class subsitions out of the WOTC books
Players will get 4 extra skill points and first level to spend in a profession or craft of knowlege to help build a back story
For Hit dice you get max at first level
For stats it 4d6 drop the lowest re-roll ones in a groups of 7 (if you dont have heroic stats why not just stay a farmer)
We are also looking at a few other Unearthed Arcana rules
I like the tumble idea. In your game for that useage, do you have that option as a readied action, an action they can only use once/ attack round, once/ target, or as their only action to avoid all attacks (essentially their roll either substitutes or adds to their AC vs. *all* rolls)? If someone attempts to tumble, is that used instead of their AC regardless of the roll?You can't use it to avoid a regular attack, it only allows you to attempt to avoid AoO as part of a move action of up to 20 feet.
If your tumble check exceeds the attack roll for the AoO, you avoid it as you go past. The target is attack roll +5 to go through your opponent's square. If anyone on your path beats your tumble roll, you suffer the attack, but I suppose it still might miss your AC. I always assumed that the same die roll from the opposed roll would then be used for the attack of opportunity.
5 ranks of tumble still give bonuses to fighting defensively and total defense.
Ah, I know about the standard use of Tumble. It's a DC 25 to move through a target's square to avoid an AoO (a failure halts the movement and creates an AoO).
Since I was thinking about Tumble in another way, anyway, I was thinking as a full round action, using the Tumble roll to add to their AC. Since that's *all* they're doing, I wouldn't see a problem with that.
Ah, I know about the standard use of Tumble. It's a DC 25 to move through a target's square to avoid an AoO (a failure halts the movement and creates an AoO).Since I was thinking about Tumble in another way, anyway, I was thinking as a full round action, using the Tumble roll to add to their AC. Since that's *all* they're doing, I wouldn't see a problem with that.
The difference between AE and 3.5 is that in AE your tumble target is based on an opposed check instead of a flat target. So it's harder to tumble past someone with a high attack bonus, and you can tumble past and through mooks with ease.
Also, even if you blow it, your movement doesn't stop, you just suffer the attack. Make sense. Why would you WANT to stick around after they hit you? Unless you've been grappled, run into them, or they're just really big, there's no reason you should have to stop.
The one downside to the AE method is that it causes more dice rolling so it could slow things down. Multiple tumblers in a big battle would be a pain.
It sounds like what you are proposing is a Full Round Action Tumble check that would be like an improved Total Defense. The tumble roll then adds the AC in some way. Basically taking the concept opposed roll concept a step further.
I see two issues with this. First, you would have to come up with a way to figure the bonus. I don't think the AC bonus can be the raw tumble check result, or you would get absurd bonuses to AC on a high roll. So maybe you get a +1 for every point you beat 25 or but this is risky. If you've got 5 ranks, you can already get +6, which is pretty good. You would also be able to move in the same round. A blown roll could result in no or small bonus, so you've just wasted your action for nothing and have to sit there and get beat on.
The other problem is that since it's a full round action, I assume there's no movement involved. I'm not sure it makes sense to assume that full round (6 seconds) of "tumbling in place" would really make you that hard to hit. But having seen my share of Jackie Chan movies, I suppose it's possible. Part of what makes tumbling help you avoid hits is the movement. But I suppose if you're really flexible and jumpy, you could wiggle around in one 5 foot square and make it tough for opponents to land a solid blow.
I guess a full round action could be an option if you're cornered/outnumbered and don't really have any squares you want to try to move to.