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Just read the PDF ...Can someone point to the said document... Please (said in shamefull voice for not being able to find it by myself)
It is HERE
With the new gods, I hope with will see something along the lines of the initiate feats or even some kind of divine feat that allow a cleric of a specific god to use their daily turn undead/rebuke undead uses in a new way. For example, a feat that would allow a cleric of Rovagug to use one use of rebuke undead to ignore the hardness of an object for one turn.
Creative Director
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With the new gods, I hope with will see something along the lines of the initiate feats or even some kind of divine feat that allow a cleric of a specific god to use their daily turn undead/rebuke undead uses in a new way. For example, a feat that would allow a cleric of Rovagug to use one use of rebuke undead to ignore the hardness of an object for one turn.
Eventually I'd love to do something like that. It'll take a while before we're able to go down that road, though...
With the new gods, I hope with will see something along the lines of the initiate feats...
One of the articles that got caught in the death of Dragon Magazine featured a series of "domain" feats. While not initiate feats (the requirements for qualification made no mention of a specific deity), you might find them useful.
And I'm not-so-secretly hoping Paizo would as well. (If asked to resubmit the article, I'm sure the authors would be willing to share.)
Example: Dust Child required a cleric to take the Earth domain and, among other things, allowed him to spend a rebuke earth attempt to increase his natural armor bonus.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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With the new gods, I hope with will see something along the lines of the initiate feats...One of the articles that got caught in the death of Dragon Magazine featured a series of "domain" feats. While not initiate feats (the requirements for qualification made no mention of a specific deity), you might find them useful.
And I'm not-so-secretly hoping Paizo would as well. (If asked to resubmit the article, I'm sure the authors would be willing to share.)
Example: Dust Child required a cleric to take the Earth domain and, among other things, allowed him to spend a rebuke earth attempt to increase his natural armor bonus.
Excellent excellent idea. I think this would make certain clerics more unique and more attractive as PCs/NPCs.
Either this, or the earlier suggested idea of having a special domain only open to a select few worshippers - who would of course attain special status and title based on their limited access to this rare domain.
Speaking strictly from a design perspective, the idea of specialty domains didn't excite me at first. They do, however, allow you to assign a special set of spells, coupled with a more targeted domain power. Basically, it's the customization of two mechanics for the price of one. Not too shabby.
Re: Shelyn
Alas, my big contribution to the pantheon is the one you like least. D'oh. :\ ... What she lacks in surface creativity I hope to make up for with her (already quite extensive) backstory.
Looks like I'm going to have a very strong reason to warm up to Shelyn, Mike. I'm gearing up my gaming group to play in Rise of the Runelords and one of the players is considering a Human or Half-Elven Bard/Cleric of Shelyn. She's the only girl in our gaming group, so it should be interesting to see her take on the character in the game.
So, with that in mind, I'm now wondering about Shelyn's backstory. Is there anything more you can share about your vision of this goddess and what's in store for her? Are there any specific plans for the AP to include Shelyn's priesthood? I know she's already one of the core gods worshipped in Sandpoint, but I'm specifically wondering about any additional story tie-in's the goddess or her clergy might have to the adventure itself. Any insights you can give me will only serve to help my player as she puts together her character concept.
Thanks,
--Neil
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So, with that in mind, I'm now wondering about Shelyn's backstory. Is there anything more you can share about your vision of this goddess and what's in store for her? Are there any specific plans for the AP to include Shelyn's priesthood? I know she's already one of the core gods worshipped in Sandpoint, but I'm specifically wondering about any additional story tie-in's the goddess or her clergy might have to the adventure itself. Any insights you can give me will only serve to help my player as she puts together her character concept.
Thanks,
--Neil
Shelyn doesn't have any official ties in to "Burnt Offerings" apart from being one of the six major faiths of Sandpoint. She'll certainly have some stuff going on later in the campaign though. And while tie ins to the adventure involving the faith of Shelyn aren't something I want to spoil yet, Mike certainly does have a fair amount of backstory about her that shouuldn't take much coaxing for him to put up online...
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Mike certainly does have a fair amount of backstory about her that shouuldn't take much coaxing for him to put up online...
It's true! I'll have up some information on Shelyn and her ties to one of the evilest deities in the pantheon by end of day today. Yes, that's right, official canon posted first to our messageboards! Isn't Paizo awesome? ^_^
Isn't Paizo awesome? ^_^
Yes.
Shelyn doesn't have any official ties in to "Burnt Offerings" apart from being one of the six major faiths of Sandpoint. She'll certainly have some stuff going on later in the campaign though. And while tie ins to the adventure involving the faith of Shelyn aren't something I want to spoil yet, Mike certainly does have a fair amount of backstory about her that shouldn't take much coaxing for him to put up online...
Ah! It's good to know that Shelyn will eventually play a part down the road. Even if it's not during Burnt Offerings, I think that plays better for my gaming group anyway. After all, the Bard character isn't going to multi-class until after Burnt Offerings or at least closer towards the end.
How many levels will the first issue of Pathfinder cover anyway? 1st thru 3rd, maybe? That sounds about right for the player to decide on crossing over to become a Cleric of Shelyn, I think...
...I'll have up some information on Shelyn and her ties to one of the evilest deities in the pantheon by end of day today. Yes, that's right, official canon posted first to our messageboards! Isn't Paizo awesome? ^_^
That's a rhetorical question, right? ;-)
Many thanks on the sneak-peek, though. It will certainly give my player something to start planning her character around.
--Neil
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Okay, here’s probably enough information for a player to get a good idea of Shelyn. Keep in mind that this is only sort of canon, since it hasn’t seen print yet to make it 100% official. Also, keep in mind I’m only giving you enough here to understand the goddess and her interactions with other deities (and thus her clerics and their interactions with everything), although this did get away from me a bit and became almost 2000 words. Finally, keep in mind that not all of her details are set and a lot of the generic-sounding stuff (and some of the not-so-generic-sounding stuff) will eventually be replaced with proper names. Oh, and feel free to ask me questions on specifics relating to her or ask Boss Jacobs questions relating to the other deities and their interactions with her.
That said…
The Eternal Rose
Portfolio: beauty, art, love, music
Domains: Air, Charm, Good, Luck, Protection
Favored Weapon: Glaive
Alignment: Neutral Good
Shelyn (sheh LINN) is the half-sister of Zon-Kuthon (yes, the LE god of envy, pain, darkness, and loss). She started life as a relatively minor deity of beauty, art, and music, but with the destruction of her mother (former goddess of love) she gained the very important portfolio of love and became a somewhat more powerful deity. Shelyn continues to focus on beauty (and the related art and music) and has expanded upon her mother’s relatively narrow view of love to include all forms of the emotion.
Beauty
Before she became the goddess of love, Shelyn was flighty and shallow. Since discovering the capacity intelligent beings have for loving people and things that lack beauty, she tends to look for beauty in everyone and everything. “Beauty comes from within” is a relatively recent saying she introduced to Golarion, and it’s a philosophy she not only practices herself, but she requires from her clerics. In this way, it’s quite possible for a physically unattractive person to become a cleric of the goddess of beauty.
Shelyn’s is a unique beauty unparalleled in the multiverse. She is beautiful both without and within (now), and all who see her see in her what they envision as the most perfect beauty (meaning she looks a little bit different to everybody, although everyone agrees that she has eyes that slowly change color). She focuses just as much attention on internal beauty as external, and she is considered also to have the most beautiful personality (which changed greatly when she became goddess of love, such to the point that some wonder if a little of her mother’s personality didn’t meld with hers). Thus, while lesser beauties might inspire jealousy in those who see them, she does not. Nor does she herself feel jealousy when a lesser beauty (i.e., any other) receives attention. She encourages the growth and appreciation of beauty, regardless of its source or admirers, and thus she is never jealous. She surrounds herself with flowers, colorful birds, artworks, and other things of beauty.
She doesn't use her beauty as a weapon (and she punishes that sort of behavior from her followers) and gently and kindly rejects all potential suitors. Some call her an eternal maiden (or sometimes, The Eternal Maiden), while others claim she is the lover of several gods, goddesses, and lesser beings. The truth, of course, is unknown. (Darker rumors put her in the bed of her half brother, but such whispered rumors never persist for very long, as Zon-Kuthon does not tolerate such things.)
Art and Music
As aspects of her role as goddess of beauty, Shelyn also promotes the creation of art and the composing and performance of music. The art or music need not be particularly well done, just so long as the creator puts in effort. A naturally talented person who doesn’t try but still makes beautiful art is appreciated (but not as much as an ungifted artist who struggles for days but still creates something only mediocre). A naturally talented person who doesn’t try and creates something mediocre is shunned by Shelyn (and by extension, her clergy). Clerics of Shelyn frequently are artists themselves, although those without any talent more often become art critics or collectors.
Shelyn herself has an extensive collection of artwork (mostly gifts from potential suitors or worshipers, and most of which portray her). She also has a massive collection of violins (she is likely the greatest violinist in the multiverse) and a secret one of glaives (given to her by Zon-Kuthon or his followers as a sort of dark joke).
Love
As the goddess of love, Shelyn encourages the proliferation of the feeling in all its forms. She is not the goddess of sexuality, lust, or fertility, and makes a very clear distinction between love and sexuality (although she does not in any way discourage erotic love). The few paladins who worship her practice (courtly love, with female paladins attempting to win the attentions of attractive young noblemen (or sometimes, attractive young noblewomen). Shelyn and her clerics treat homosexual love as equal to heterosexual love.
Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon
When they first came into being, so very long ago, their mutual parent forced Zon-Kuthon to swear the Unbreakable Oath (better name pending) to the forces of Law. Zon-Kuthon swore that he would never harm Shelyn, nor would he stand by if others tried to harm her in his presence. In exchange for making the Unbreakable Oath, he received the glaive Whisperer of Souls (which Shelyn later stole from him… see below).
To this day, clerics of Zon-Kuthon not only don’t harm known clerics of Shelyn (doing so results in harsh punishments that don’t end with death) but sometimes actually try to protect such clerics if in danger (earning them rewards from their deity). For their part, clerics of Shelyn return the favor by looking the other way when they meet known clerics or cultists of Zon-Kuthon. (Except, of course, if the clerics or cultists are obviously harming innocents, defacing art, or otherwise being unforgivably bad in front of the clerics of Shelyn.)
This arrangement might seem like a serious drawback for Zon-Kuthon, as other evil deities might take advantage of it to put him into uncomfortable positions. As it turns out, though, nobody ever really moves against Shelyn or her clergy.
Relationship with Other Deities
All other good and neutral deities (and creatures) like or love her. It’s pretty much that simple. They like talking to her (and occasionally trying to woo her), and they certainly like looking at her. The relatively recently ascended god Cayden Cailean frequently attempts to win her over (and always fails), and has contributed greatly to her art and violin collections.
The evil deities (and most evil creatures) are mostly neutral toward her, although she and Urgathoa frequently argue (and their clergies do tend to get into skirmishes). She and Pharasma tend to have long philosophical debates, which always end when Pharasma points out that beautiful things like flowers grow from dead things (Shelyn has no argument against this). For the most part, evil deities leave Shelyn alone (and by extension, their clergy tend to ignore her clergy). She is not a martial goddess by any stretch and tends to stay as far from battle as possible, thus she has built up no animosity from the evil deities or their followers. She’s mostly just there, and they mostly just ignore her.
To this day, only Rovagug, CE god of wrath, disaster, destruction can resist Shelyn’s charms at all times. He alone opposes her on any long-term basis (but only in that he opposes everything, and she is a thing) .
Whisperer of Souls
So how does the goddess of beauty and love get a glaive as her favored weapon?
Shelyn bears the glaive gifted to her half brother in exchange for him swearing the Unbreakable Oath. The weapon was crafted by the former god of smiths, who fell during the same murderous spree that claimed Shelyn’s mother. When he received it, the weapon corrupted Zon-Kuthon and convinced him to go to war against the other deities. It was during this war that Shelyn lost her mother and became goddess of love.
When created, Whisperer of Souls was given the ability to absorb souls (hence its name) and once it absorbs 100 powerful souls (not just anybody’s soul will do) it will become a god in its own right and bring about an era of murder and death. When Zon-Kuthon received the weapon it held no souls. By the time Shelyn stole Whisperer of Souls it had almost all it needed. In the time since, Shelyn has been able to free most of those souls thanks to the help of Nethys and brave adventurers (a grand quest of goodness must be performed to release a soul).
Much to the frustration of Whisperer of Souls, it can’t seem to corrupt Shelyn or influence her in any way (earning her the title "the Incorruptible"). Quite the opposite, in fact: when Shelyn first stole the weapon it was a nightmarish and hideous piece of craftsmanship, but in the millennia since, Shelyn has remade it into a beautiful piece of art. It still bears a few ugly bits here and there, but they become less pronounced with each soul she releases.
Anyway, enough background. On to the useful bits!
Cleric Training: Clerics of Shelyn occasionally (frequently?) begin life as artists or musicians and only later come to serve in her clergy. Those who don’t are taught to perform musically (whether on an instrument or just by singing) and are also taught an artistic skill (usually drawing, but sometimes painting, sculpting, or even acting or other performance arts). Weapon training, which only occurs for about an hour every other day or so, if at all, builds off motions learned from the acolyte’s art or music (paladins frequently practice calligraphy, as the movement of the pen mirrors that of the glaive).
Quests: Quests for Shelyn usually involve rescuing—whether ancient artworks from destruction or star-crossed lovers from their families (Romeo and Juliet with a happy ending). They also involve the spreading of art and beauty. Finally, sometimes Shelyn sends followers on generic quests that promote goodness so she may free another soul from Whisperer of Souls.
Temples: As you might imagine, temples to Shelyn are filled with art and constantly (pretty much 24-7) have some kind of music playing within. They tend to be architectural marvels, and architects and builders frequently vie for the honor to build or repair a temple of Shelyn in order to show off their skills. Most settlements have at least a shrine or alter dedicated to Shelyn, but only the largest cities can really afford to house a temple dedicated to just her.
Rites: Rituals dedicated to Shelyn involve singing, regardless of the skill or tone-deafness of the participants. Only those who play a wind or brass instrument (or a chin-set instrument like a violin) are excused from singing. If a ritual can’t be held at a shrine or temple to Shelyn, it should be held in some place surrounded by beauty (natural or man-made).
Heralds and Allies: Shelyn’s herald is a ghaele eladrin who has served her since she was merely the goddess of beauty, art, and music. When Shelyn became NG so too did her herald. Her allies include bronze dragons and some other critters (that I’m sure we’ll have to make up eventually).
I hope that helps! :)
Okay, here’s probably enough information for a player to get a good idea of Shelyn....I hope that helps! :)
Indeed. :)
I'm speechless at the moment. Give me time to digest this and share it with my player. I'll likely have feedback or questions later. But a heartfelt thanks for sharing this much material in advance.
Sincerely,
--Neil
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Okay, here’s probably enough information for a player to get a good idea of Shelyn....I hope that helps! :)
Indeed. :)
I'm speechless at the moment. Give me time to digest this and share it with my player. I'll likely have feedback or questions later. But a heartfelt thanks for sharing this much material in advance.
Sincerely,
--Neil
Um, yeah... I got a little carried away. There's more I want to say, of course, but I'd better leave something for her eventual writeup. :D
Sweet . . . I want the Whisperer of Souls!
Wait I don't see any info . . is it already gone?
I missed it, but a friend copy & pasted this for me:
"Weapon training, which only occurs for about an hour every other day or
so, if at all, builds off motions learned from the acolyte's art or
music (paladins frequently practice calligraphy, as the movement of the
pen mirrors that of the glaive)."
Can I possibly claim any credit (just for bragging rights purposes) for the parenthesized text, or was that concept there before I mentioned the Hero scene?
Wait I don't see any info . . is it already gone?I can still see it. For what that's worth. :)
Strange... I couldn't see it at first, but I could see the posts before and after. Now it has appeared between NSpicers posts though...
What was that God of Smiths thinking? Creating an evil, god-killing weapon, and giving it to a LE deity?! Guess that showed him.
Strange... I couldn't see it at first, but I could see the posts before and after. Now it has appeared between NSpicers posts though...Wait I don't see any info . . is it already gone?I can still see it. For what that's worth. :)
Yeah same here. Well, you know what they say . . .the Gods work in mysterious ways.
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What was that God of Smiths thinking? Creating an evil, god-killing weapon, and giving it to a LE deity?! Guess that showed him.
I'm not entirely sure the glaive went straight from the god of smiths to Zon-Kuthon. There might have been intermediaries. But that doesn't really matter, since the god of smiths was dumb enough to create such a thing in the first place. Maybe he was tricked or something, but that story lies outside the realm of what I've come up with so far. Maybe when we get the writeup of Zon-Kuthon we'll get the full story. :)
...
Also, two things I've noticed re-re-rereading my post (I'm an editor, what do you expect?):
1. My links seem broken. They're supposed to go to Wikipedia pages (one for the entry "greek words for love" and one for the entry "courtly love."
2. I used the word "Eternal" for two of Shelyn's titles. That's one too many eternities. She IS the Eternal Rose. She is not the Eternal Maiden. Maybe the Evermaiden or something like. Suggestions welcome. :)
Maybe just 'The Maiden', always capitalized.
I think it's safe to say that we at Paizo listen to our readers. ;)
Sweet. :)
BTW, I can see the writeup now. Weird.
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So can you see the post, Azzy? Apparently, only some of our readers can. :\
Yup. I guess I’m one of Shelyn’s chosen.... Yeah, it figures that I would be the chosen of a fictional deity. *sigh* Hmm, does the resident “post-monster” have any rationale for why only a select few of us are seeing the post?
Really, though, I’m really impressed with what you’ve written and where you went with it. While I can’t wait to see the final draft where see everything’s gussied up, it’s great to see the unvarnished work in progress where the important thing is getting the ideas on paper (because the prettiness can come later).
I'm not entirely sure the glaive went straight from the god of smiths to Zon-Kuthon. There might have been intermediaries. But that doesn't really matter, since the god of smiths was dumb enough to create such a thing in the first place. Maybe he was tricked or something, but that story lies outside the realm of what I've come up with so far. Maybe when we get the writeup of Zon-Kuthon we'll get the full story. :)
So.... 1) What was the “murderous spree” responsible for the death Shelyn’s mother (she needs a name) and the god of smiths (he needs a name, too), 1b) who was a part of it, and 1c) who else fell victim to it? 2) Was the god of smiths intending to make an evil artifact that devour souls, or was whisper of souls corrupted at some point during or after it was forged, if so, 2b) who is responsible for its corruption, and 2c) if corrupted did it go unknown until after it was given to Zon-Kuthon/used for the first time.
While I don’t expect the answers right now, I proffer those questions as something for you to meditate upon when you do work out the details. There’s definitely a lot of interesting possibilities with this.
2. I used the word "Eternal" for two of Shelyn's titles. That's one too many eternities.
Can one ever have too many eternities? I mean, really? ;)
She IS the Eternal Rose. She is not the Eternal Maiden. Maybe the Evermaiden or something like. Suggestions welcome. :)
Hmm.”Evermaiden” might actually be your best bet. I checked a thesaurus that I have (it was printed in 1936, so it has some obscure words and word usages that you probably wouldn’t find in a more modern thesaurus), and found that it wasn’t that helpful. Sure, I dredged up the usual suspects like “everlasting,” “ageless,” “immortal,” “perpetual,” “sempiternal,” “endless,” “constant,” “unfading,” etc., but a lot of those just don’t have that jazzy, poetic ring to it. There needs to be multiple concise, yet eloquent, ways of saying the “maiden who is untouched by time” in the English language. But that’s just my opinion. :D
However, because of all that, my mind started playing the game of connect-the-dots and I now have the song “Everlasting Love” stuck in my head. I fear that I will always associate with it Shelyn, now. *sigh*
Maybe just 'The Maiden', always capitalized.I dig that idea. :)
Sweet.
And Azzy, the muderous spree was Zon-Kuthon going to war with the gods, once corrupted by the Whisperer of Souls. (The real question is, what other gods fell and fought in that war, and on what sides.)
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And Azzy, the muderous spree was Zon-Kuthon going to war with the gods, once corrupted by the Whisperer of Souls.
Well, that's question 1a scratched off the list. I thought so, I just couldn't find the passage on my second pass through the text (darn pain meds). It does beg other questions (other than those posed in 1b and 1c), though. What was the scale of this war? If it was started by Zon-Kuthon after he was corrupted by the Whisper of souls, who did he convince to join him, how many were involved, what was his goal, where was the war fought, what sides were drawn, who was on each side, how many died, what was the after effect of this war, what happened to Zon-Kuthon once he realized he had been corrupted, what was his punishment from the other gods?
Again, not expecting answers in the here and now, but just throwing out something to chew on.
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What was the scale of this war? If it was started by Zon-Kuthon after he was corrupted by the Whisper of souls, who did he convince to join him, how many were involved, what was his goal, where was the war fought, what sides were drawn, who was on each side, how many died, what was the after effect of this war, what happened to Zon-Kuthon once he realized he had been corrupted, what was his punishment from the other gods?
Again, not expecting answers in the here and now, but just throwing out something to chew on.
Yeah, as I said, this is all kinda preliminary. I have a feeling we'll find out a lot more when we see the writeup for Zon-Kuthon. It might turn out that there wasn't an actual war, per se, but some other, smaller conflict. I used the word "war" more as a placeholder than a description of the event.
People more creative than I shall take my notes here (and elsewhere) and make something far cooler than what you see in my post. :)
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There needs to be multiple concise, yet eloquent, ways of saying the “maiden who is untouched by time” in the English language. But that’s just my opinion. :D
The "Aeonic Maiden" perhaps? Pay attention the "gnostic" definitions of aeon in the wiki article.
...I used the word "Eternal" for two of Shelyn's titles. That's one too many eternities. She IS the Eternal Rose. She is not the Eternal Maiden. Maybe the Evermaiden or something like. Suggestions welcome. :)
I'm kind of partial to The Everfair Maiden...almost pronouncing it all in one rush as if a single word...Everfairmaiden. I think the oft-used "fair maiden" phrase also appears in lots of medieval ballads and what-not, too. So it should play well with all those bards writing new songs about her.
Anyway, just my two-cents,
--Neil
The Great Wheel cosmology is also Wizards of the Coat intellectual property, so we can't touch that. But rest assured, our setting's outer planes will be pretty similar, especially in drawing upon mythological regions like Hades and the like.And it's worth mentioning that while the outer planes are WotC property, other useful planes are OGL, like all six elemental planes, plus the astral, ethereal, and Plane of Shadow.
Oh, and I wrote some ancient gods for the setting already. One of them still has active followers, and all still have some impact on the setting.
Kinda odd, that. I mean, of all the things you would have thought they wouldn't bother trying to claim as intellectual property...planes with the name "Heaven", "Hell", "Gehenna", "Hades", "Limbo" would be at the very top of my list, considering they are real-world religious concepts. Now, I can understand claiming the 3e/3.5e nomenclature of the outer planes...but I don't see why you couldn't just come out and say "The Nine Circles of Hell" as being a proper plane in your cosmology. After all, Dante's long, long been in public domain...
Maybe just 'The Maiden', always capitalized.I dig that idea. :)
I like Evermaiden better.
Somehow, Maiden to me seems more static. She's the Maiden, and that's that. Evermaiden suggests a passage of time during which she none the less remains the Evermaiden... despite folks hittin' on her. :)
I mean, of all the things you would have thought they wouldn't bother trying to claim as intellectual property...planes with the name "Heaven", "Hell", "Gehenna", "Hades", "Limbo" would be at the very top of my list, considering they are real-world religious concepts. Now, I can understand claiming the 3e/3.5e nomenclature of the outer planes...but I don't see why you couldn't just come out and say "The Nine Circles of Hell" as being a proper plane in your cosmology. After all, Dante's long, long been in public domain...
IANAL, but my guess is you probably could, however, you couldn't call your Nine Circles of Hell Avernus, Dis, Minauros, Phlegethos, Stygia, Malbolge, Maladomini, Cania and Nessus (in that order), and have them be inhabited by the Lawful Evil devils of the Monster Manual, who war with the demons of the Abyss.
And as far as using real world names like Hell or Limbo and doing your own thing with them, that's what I understood James as saying they'll be doing (among other things, entirely of their own devising, I expect).
I was also wondering if demon princes, archdevils etc would be able to grant spells to followers in the new setting, or if they would be using the "spells are granted by a god in league with the other entity" method (which seems to be the current WotC standard).Demon princes and arch devils will be able to grant spells to their clerics.
About friggin' time! Man, I never understood the "necessity" to differentiate the manner in which devils/demons/daemons/demodads & true deities bestowed their minions with power. The only thing I could come up with is "Let's placate the parents by more or less implying that the bad guys are not as powerful as they claim and maybe that'll stop 'em from protesting us...". Some kind of holdover from the early 2e days or something...
In anycase, it makes no sense, if you check out some of their statblocks. I'd take Asmodeus over, say, half the chief "good" deities any day in a fight. And if you add in the implied origin to him from the late 2e days or Book of Vile Darkness/Fiendish Codex II amalgamation...wow. Watch out. We're talking overgod here.
Regardless, bravo for taking that cliche head on and ditching it! :)
IANAL, but my guess is you probably could, however, you couldn't call your Nine Circles of Hell Avernus, Dis, Minauros, Phlegethos, Stygia, Malbolge, Maladomini, Cania and Nessus (in that order), and have them be inhabited by the Lawful Evil devils of the Monster Manual, who war with the demons of the Abyss.
And as far as using real world names like Hell or Limbo and doing your own thing with them, that's what I understood James as saying they'll be doing (among other things, entirely of their own devising, I expect).
Yeah, that's what it looks like to me, too.
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If an outer plane's name existed before D&D used it, we can use it. Hell and the Abyss and Hades and Heaven and Acheron, for example, are all okay to use. Places like the Outlands and Sigil and Mechanus we can't. Nor can we organize things the same way as the Great Wheel. But that said... I expect our multiverse will have a lot more in common with the Great Wheel than anything else. Mostly because the game's built to use a multiverse setup like the Great Wheel (what with the various outsider races being organized like they are).
I expect our multiverse will have a lot more in common with the Great Wheel than anything else. Mostly because the game's built to use a multiverse setup like the Great Wheel (what with the various outsider races being organized like they are).
I did something similar in a homebrewed game once. I reduced the number of outer planes to nine (one per alignment) and played around with inner planes (adding the para- and quasi-elemental planes back, as well as the deep ethereal).
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The "Aeonic Maiden" perhaps? Pay attention the "gnostic" definitions of aeon in the wiki article.
Very nice. (w/bad French accent) :)
The Maiden gets my vote.
I also like the The Untouched Maiden (though the innuendo there is a bit rife.)
The Spring Maiden (something clean, something nice)
The First Maiden is not bad either.
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elationship with Other Deities
All other good and neutral deities (and creatures) like or love her. It’s pretty much that simple. They like talking to her (and occasionally trying to woo her), and they certainly like looking at her. The relatively recently ascended god Cayden Cailean frequently attempts to win her over (and always fails), and has contributed greatly to her art and violin collections.The evil deities (and most evil creatures) are mostly neutral toward her, although she and Urgathoa frequently argue (and their clergies do tend to get into skirmishes). She and Pharasma tend to have long philosophical debates, which always end when Pharasma points out that beautiful things like flowers grow from dead things (Shelyn has no argument against this). For the most part, evil deities leave Shelyn alone (and by extension, their clergy tend to ignore her clergy). She is not a martial goddess by any stretch and tends to stay as far from battle as possible, thus she has built up no animosity from the evil deities or their followers. She’s mostly just there, and they mostly just ignore her.
To this day, only Rovagug, CE god of wrath, disaster, destruction can resist Shelyn’s charms at all times. He alone opposes her on any long-term basis (but only in that he opposes everything, and she is a thing) .
So how does she interact with Calistria, goddess of Lust? Bitter enemies, sometimes lovers?
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Contributor
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So how does she interact with Calistria, goddess of Lust? Bitter enemies, sometimes lovers?
I don't know much about Calistria, to be honest, but I imagine she and her clergy are all about intercourse, with or without strings attached. Since erotic love (a part of Shelyn's portfolio) usually leads to copulation, the two probably get along, for the most part. I can imagine that Calistria sometimes espouses the idea of pretending to be in love in order to engage in intercourse, and in those situations I imagine she and Shelyn come into conflict. But I think they both realize that normal lust can turn into love, which can fulfill lustful wishes, so for the most part they probably work together, if they interact at all.
So they're not bitter enemies and I doubt they're lovers, since Shelyn isn't dumb enough to think that Calistria might actually _love_ her and realizes that any advances from her are just about being with the prettiest thing in the multiverse. For the most part they probably are neutral toward one another, although they probably sometimes become temporary rivals and they probably sometimes become temporary allies.
Giant squids. Would any of "the 20" be associated with them? Gozreh, perhaps?
Mike, I love what you've done with Shelyn. Thankyou for giving us this early preview. The connection to Zon-Kuthon is awesome and could create some very interesting roleplaying situations between the clergies. These hints of a previous god-killing war or battle are also intriguing. I really like the bits about physically unattractive people being equally welcome, and talented people making mediocre works being shunned, but untalented people trying really hard and being acceppted. Good work :)
I also like how everyone either likes her, loves her or leaves her alone. Makes sense because she just seems so... nice!
By the way, I think Evermaiden has a great ring to it.
