Trail of the Hunted really pours on the treasure

I haven't sat down with a calculator, but assuming a standard party-of-four? It looks like this is at least double standard WBL, maybe more. Lots of useful little magic items, especially in the first (town) encounters.

I understand there are two justifications for this: (1) The first chunk of the module is a marathon, going from encounter to encounter in the town with no opportunity to stop and rest; and (2) later, the PCs are stuck in the forest with limited opportunity to buy stuff, craft, or visit Ye Olde Magic Shoppe.

Okay, but... adding treasure doesn't really help that much with the marathon aspect. What probably happens instead is that the PCs hit a wall -- everyone injured, out of healing, low on spells -- and say, we're done. And then they hang on to the treasure and magic items. And late in the module, that Deep Gnome trader shows up.

I guess the occasional treasure-heavy module is no big thing, but... I dunno, it seems slightly inconsistent with the otherwise hardscrabble, shoe-string, hungry guerrillas in the forest eking out Provision Points spirit of the module generally.

Thoughts?

Doug M.

Paizo tends to believe players will use consumable resources, and in many groups that's the case. However, in the games I've played/GMed in, it's usually "sell everything except the wand of CLW, we'll use the other stuff for crafting/purchasing.

In my game the hunter just cast ant haul on her roc and flew to Tamran to handle selling/buying. The slow pace of the AP actually makes crafting much more viable than other APs.

I was curious about how much we were over, so I made a spreadsheet.

So, WBL for 4 2nd level characters is 4,000, so at the end of Part 1 if everything is sold there's about 8,500. Of course, the PCs will keep some things and get rid of some other things, so that number will be a bit higher in terms of actual value.

That being said...

Looking at straight gold values is probably not the best thing here for a couple reasons.

First of all, there's no good way to liquidate large amounts of items. There's a lot of suits of studded leather armor available, and even if you manage to hold them all until you meet with Novvi, she may not even be able to hold them all in her bag of holding. The PCs ability to buy and sell is limited, and so it really matters the quality of the items that they have. There's plenty of decent items in the first level, but there's also some stinkers. (See ring of jumping.) There are things I would never buy but I could see myself using, and also things I would never buy and never want to use.

Second, there's a militia that they're supporting. What good-hearted party would sell those studded leathers to get like 100 gold when they could instead equip 10 commoners with studded leather armor to help protect them if they get attacked? The forest is dangerous out there! Certainly the PCs should be able to sell some things, but if they're not giving anything to the refugees, those refugees should be giving them some serious side-eye.

I think those two restrictions for me is enough to not reduce the amount of items. With trouble selling them and giving them to other people, it'll still feel like you're scrounging.

(And honestly, if someone thought that they could get to Tamran unmolested from the air, that might work once or twice before they start getting harassed - especially at early levels. Make them earn access to teleport!)

Treasure is the first (but usually only) thing I modify in an AP. I prefer to give out stuff characters will use and throw in my own curve ball/unexpected items. I also know (generally) my groups approach to consumables and can adjust accordingly.

My group generally hates hoovering up every suit of armor and dagger to sell so they can get what they want, but they'll do it if they feel the the rewards aren't keeping up. They've tried having a dedicated crafter... they even hired one to take around with them in one AP so no one would have to take the feats... but they prefer the "magic mart" setup if I don't hand out what they want and they need to swap things out.

We also tried a couple versions of the anti-christmas tree approach. While it worked for keeping things simpler, a few of them felt there were fewer items to play with as a result (partially my fault there).

I think the idea is that the PCs will be giving some of the equipment to their NPC followers.

Also, many of the encounters are found by wandering around the forest; it's possible (likely?) that the PCs won't run across some of them.

My players felt a sense of urgency during the attack. They grabbed stuff as they were running from place to place, but they weren't stopping to strip armor off fallen soldiers.

I tend to apply economy to the mundane items. No smith is going to buy 100 chain shirts, for example. Later in the campaign, my parties stop caring, and I stop listing anything unless it is masterwork or otherwise useful. They're doing 50-100 damage per hit, the gear is damaged, too (though we don't break gear during combat).

That being said, my understanding is that excess loot is pretty common in APs in general. I know my 13th level GS party averages 150k GP each, and they haven't sold anything from book 4, yet. I think they'll get another 50k each when they do (plus artifacts). That's between 14th & 15th WBL.

I think the APs account for this somewhat, too, so it doesn't negatively impact the challenge too much. Besdides, by the end of the AP, the difference will likely be minimal and the end baddies tend to be overpowered relatively speaking anyway.

1) The marathon part already mentioned.

2) There are quite a few NPCs to take care of, which mean foods, drinks, gears, maybe retraining, etc...

3)

And honestly, if someone thought that they could get to Tamran unmolested from the air, that might work once or twice before they start getting harassed - especially at early levels.

4) Beside, Tamran is limited in how much it can buy and sell.

I was curious about how much we were over, so I made a spreadsheet.

Thank you very much for sharing that. I will be using that as my personal reference in switching gear and magic items to better fit my party.

My general thought is this AP will be tight on opportunities to get to large markets.

Tamran isn't that big of a city, it can likely support loot of a 1st-4th level party, but the party is nowhere near Tamran in book 1. After that, there's really nothing nearby.

Even Teleport has a limit of 100miles/level (so about 900 miles when you get it at 9th level). even then, you have to have an idea of where you are going. no one has likely been to a nearby metropolis. That could be a side-quest in an of itself. Most options involve getting past Molthune (an enemy of anyone from Nirmathas)

All that said, my impression is that for books 1-3, the PCs will have extra gear they cannot use or sell. Finding ten +1 weapons does you little good once everyone has a +1 weapon they can use.

Even Item Crafting will be restricted, as the PCs will need to find crafting raw materials. Since you cannot simply transmute a +1 sword into 1000gp worth of crafting components in the middle of a forest.

My thoughts is that this will be a resource management game for books 1-3, until the PCs can find an appropriate market nearby (Janderhoff, Khorvosa, Magnimar to the West, Druma to the east, Ustalav to the north). And that will be a side-quest in an of itself.

I had a similar issue in other AP's. In GiantSlayer, there was a side-quest early in Book3 to Janderhoff. In Kingmaker, there was a sidequest after Book 3 to Taldor.

Level 5 Teleport doesn't get you very far (~1000 miles), so you don't always have the option of teleporting to Absalom. And there's a lot of miles of unfriendly territory in central Avistan in all directions: mountains, deserts, orcs of Belkzin, the mostly unpopulated Varisia, Lake Encarthian, Nidal, Cheliax, Realm of the Mammoth Lords, Numeria, Razmir, etc.

My general thought is this AP will be tight on opportunities to get to large markets.

Tamran isn't that big of a city, it can likely support loot of a 1st-4th level party, but the party is nowhere near Tamran in book 1. After that, there's really nothing nearby.

Even Teleport has a limit of 100miles/level (so about 900 miles when you get it at 9th level). even then, you have to have an idea of where you are going. no one has likely been to a nearby metropolis. That could be a side-quest in an of itself. Most options involve getting past Molthune (an enemy of anyone from Nirmathas)

All that said, my impression is that for books 1-3, the PCs will have extra gear they cannot use or sell. Finding ten +1 weapons does you little good once everyone has a +1 weapon they can use.

Even Item Crafting will be restricted, as the PCs will need to find crafting raw materials. Since you cannot simply transmute a +1 sword into 1000gp worth of crafting components in the middle of a forest.

My thoughts is that this will be a resource management game for books 1-3, until the PCs can find an appropriate market nearby (Janderhoff, Khorvosa, Magnimar to the West, Druma to the east, Ustalav to the north). And that will be a side-quest in an of itself.

I had a similar issue in other AP's. In GiantSlayer, there was a side-quest early in Book3 to Janderhoff. In Kingmaker, there was a sidequest after Book 3 to Taldor.

Not sure about long distance travel...

The PCs also have to worry about the Refugees/Miltia.

On the other hands, the enemies have quite a few things that can be used as material, can be reforged/remolded, etc, crafty PCs (with GM permission) might also "tear" the scenery appart for materials/componants, granted, this would be extra book keeping.

In GiantSlayer, there was a side-quest early in Book3 to Janderhoff.

On the way to the Ghostlight Marsh in book 2, you float right past Vigil.

1. Lots of the stuff they find clearly belonged to their home nation
2. No shopping so they wont all automatically get the big six
3. Make some of the stuff they find have hobgoblin or Molthune insignia and throw cat amongst the pigeons
4. Very little in the way of spellbooks, just lots of alchemical and one shot stuff