I also wondered about this. However, I'm also wondering about times/day. Do you gain these abilities for one minute/day? That seems rather weak. One minute per encounter? That's a little better.
They don't use healing spells. It's all supernatural healing through the channeling (cleric's using the variant in Book 5) so it hasn't come up yet. However, I usually tend to just have them get it without SR applying. That being said, not everyone has SR. There are still four of them that don't because they're variant half-fiends. Torturer devils don't have it, and neither do half-genies (which is what another is) or half-dragons. Granted 2/3 of the party does have SR.
The players believe that I'm just using the scenario where they level up as Book 6 dictates, but I'm still keeping track of XP just to make sure everything's balancing out. So far it has been. I'm also doing side quests so that'll helping balance it all out as well. I mean, the final battle is CR 26 and they level 19. No, that's not fair in my eyes.
Not a fan about the players presenting the head to Thorn or the devils being in competition with the pit fiend. That's a bit unnecessary unless you're revising the story. Thorn's paranoia is because his Thorn is more effective than any other Knot, and is in good standing with specific devils, and is concerned that they might all try to overthrow him.
I just made my guys use the slow progression instead of the medium progression, and gave them the template when Grumblejack got his.
As for the devil-bound, you could have them possessed by beings who are slowly trying to integrate into them, and eventually take over their body completely. Maybe a couple of the devils are insane, and would spaz out all of a sudden when the PC's trying to be calm, collected, and stealthy. The devils could also give insight as to how things should go, or tips on what's next when the PCs are lost.
I think it had to do with our loot-per-level being too low. ** spoiler omitted ** Either that or it was a random encounter. [shrugs]
Well, it's not part of the main story (technically random, unless he revised something) hence why I was curious.
@Grollub -- Really? I have to admit it's trying at time.
Really? Would love to hear from your GM as to how that went about, and why exactly. I'm curious as to the reasoning for that encounter.
The party started working on fixing the traps, and using the organization rules, but weren't doing so hot.
One trap is fixed but it took a week, they still don't have a sacrifice to start things off, Grumblejack has his template, they learned about Drownington being a good place to find minions, and the alchemical golem was finally restored.
I had Thorn come in as the party honestly believes that they have all the time in the world and that the Mitra followers will sit around and do nothing about the bugbear army. Thorn has told them otherwise, and that they need to have the ritual done in 223 days or the gathering armies will take down the bugbears before the tears can have any effect. They are not too thrilled with this. They wanted the Horn 100% rebuilt before attempting such a procedure.
I don't think they need new spells just for the class themselves (at least not at the moment), but I think out of the spells that are currently available it shouldn't just be "oh just use the sorcerer's already established list". There are a lot of spells out there that would work for each of the classes that are on other lists than just what we're being told to use right now. So, while the sorcerer list might work fine, there could be a cleric only or witch only spell that also fits thematically. Maybe a paladin spell or a half dozen would work well for the warpriest as well?
When the time comes, I think they should have a more thorough list.
I did this all the time in 3.5 after the Ultimate Magus PrC came out. So much fun.
And I agree with The Morphling. Why isn't there a wizard/rogue hybrid? The Magus essentially replaces the Eldritch Knight, but we don't get a hybrid that basically replaces the Arcane Trickster? For shame, Paizo.
I'm not a fan of the Swashbuckler as it stands right now. The only part of it that's in that class is the deeds, and that could have easily just been rogue talents too, mixed with a bit of sneak attack. My only guess for why this didn't happen is because Tome of Secrets made their swashbuckler like that, which is based off of the 3.5 swashbuckler which did the same thing.
Paizo can do better. I expect more from them than this, frankly.
I agree 100%. It's pretty bad when a group of people who have homebrewed this same concept 30 different ways for people who like gestalt but don't want to use those particular rules, can make better multiclass hybrids than the official company of PF.
Probably about the only good thing about this playtest is everyone can put their two copper in let them know why what's presented is not acceptable.
I can't get behind a lot of the classes in this playtest. They're just re-flavored versions of the original classes that bring absolutely nothing new to the table, with maybe the exception of the arcanist and bloodrager.
The Arcanist has the neat ability of letting you prepare spells and the spontaneously casting them. That's great. 4/5
The Bloodrager is a very neat class. Keeping the majority of the barbarian class with a few magus spells, this is a solid looking class. It's humourous that it's Charisma based though. 4/5
The Brawler isn't bad, but it's got a few abilities that I've always hated about the monk. Namely the "magic" strikes. Make it actually magical. Make them a worthy adversary against incorporeal creatures. However, it is nice to finally see the "monk" with full BAB and d10 HD. About time. 3/5
Honestly couldn't care less about the Hunter. I'll take a druid over this any day. Heck, I'll take a ranger over this any day. This isn't a ranger/druid. This is a druid/inquisitor/cavalier. Look at all those teamwork feats. What exactly about this class is supposed to convince me that it's got "ranger" flavor? The fact that it has track? Big deal. 1/5
The Investigator's not too shabby. Honestly, I'd be a little more thrilled if I saw a little less sneak attack and a LOT more alchemy. Maybe a few bombs. 3/5
The Shaman seems like it could have its uses, but the spirits could use a bit more flavour to them. 3/5
The Skald's spell kenning is absolutely useless in battle. You want to cast a 6th level wizard spell? Sure. Going to take you a few minutes though. Hope there's nothing pressing going on, like a final battle that will determine the fate of the world or anything like that. Then there's the inspiring rage. I know you can turn it down, but if you've got a lot of casters in your group, or people who require the mental stats for skills, they'll almost always turn that down. If you've got fellow barbarians and fighters who are looking for a boost, then fine, but this is a terrible ability. I'd take a bard over this any day. At least they're versatile. 2/5
The Slayer, is d8 HD but full BAB. Why? The way it looks like now, it's a weaker version of Kobold Press' Spell-less Ranger. It's nothing more than a wilderness rogue with full BAB. Had the Combat Style been kept in some fashion, I might have cared about this class. 1/5
The Swashbuckler. The one class that SHOULD have all the sneak attack. You want to make this a true swashbuckler, at least give me whip proficiency. The deeds are nice for flavouring the character's swashbuckling acrobatics and feats of wonder. 2/5
The War Priest. Well, I don't hate this class. It seems like it'd at least be of some baseline benefit. The blessings are a nice touch, and it at least still has access to 6th level spells. 3/5
Overall, not impressed. These could have been so much better. The main problem for me here is we're told is basic combining of two classes when one class is so overshadowed by another that you just don't see it at all. That being said, there's times where it's a weaker archetype of the class being used and not the original base version. At least, that's how it comes across when you look at what abilities are available.
The Magus is so much better than any of these. I honestly hoped that it was the staple that the new classes would live up to, but they failed so badly by comparison.
So the group has finally secured the Horn. They have the earth sprite on their side so long as they leave him be, and Erza won't destroy them so long as they promise to bring back Vetra-Kali. The party found the hidden treasury, and have the third eye they need. Halthus the Flayer signed the blood oath because he wants Vetra-Kali back more than anyone else in the group.
Hexor and Vexor are now under the control of the party thanks to them having their amulets, and the lightning elemental was enough of a problem for the party that two members could only aid them for +2 attack bonus boosts.
Everyone's ready to do the ritual, except the players. They refuse to do it as they have figured out what's likely going to happen. They know that as soon as the ritual starts, every good-aligned adventurer is likely going to come running their way for 222 days to try and stop them. That alone is keeping them from doing it. They don't want that kind of headache right now. Instead, they're wanting to secure the entire Horn (taking at least 3-4 weeks) to put up Wall of Stone over every entrance, upgrading every single trap to death traps, and hunting down more minions and beasties to watch over the caves. If they can blackmail people and twist it so that they can find loyal beings of Mitra to protect their Horn (their thought process is that the bugbear threat has caused a drafting process for the army and now people should be resenting Mitra to the point of betrayal). They especially want the minotaur zombie and 100+ skeletons. They're already trying to strong-arm Trik into being their own personal animate dead scroll maker.
So, not really sure what to do. Given the timeline Gary set up in Book 6, giving them another month doesn't seem all that plausible. Thorn should step in, but their argument is that he can't say jack as he specifically told them that he doesn't care how long it takes, just to get it done. His words. However, I'm going to have Thorn tell them about the bugbear army putting enough fear into everyone that other armies are now on the rise, and Fire-Axe likely won't survive unless the tears get spread to help dwindle the forces.
Really wish Gary was around.
Trace Coburn wrote:
One minor niggle for zerzix as I go along: I just hit the ‘F’ section, and the Forlorn’s DR is listed as ‘5/+1’ and ‘10/+1’. In proper Pathfinder notation, I believe that would be ‘5/magic’ or ‘10/magic’.
That it would. v18 should have that updated as well as all the individual monsters that we see scattered on the thread put together nicely in the book.
John Malueg wrote:
My players wish to use their minions for explorying the various areas of Daveryn. Has anyone else had their PC's wish to do this, and how did you handle it? I'm thinking that the minions won't ever stumble across any of the encounters (although it would be fun to have a number of their minions slaughtered because the PC's are being lazy/greedy. Serve them right.), but maybe have them do a higher DC Espionage roll? I don't have the evil organization info right in front of me, but I think that would be the stat they would use for looting. Thoughts on modifying the results?
My players aren't there yet, but the Grumblejack side quest is actually what the minions apparently do in Minion Quest II, according to one of the playtesters. He said that they had one NPC level and two PC levels. Apparently in Minion Quest I, those same NPCs originally had two NPC levels and one PC level. So they're 3rd level trying take on the various smaller encounters there, find the loot for Grumblejack, and eventually are to capture the guy everyone's looking for.If you wanted, you could do that instead. I've already got my PCs designing their personal minions.
The Bard/Cavalier combo already exists --> Battle Herald PrC.
Yeah, as a PRESTIGE CLASS. That's not a base class. You want to get into semantics the wizard/sorcerer exists in two different PrCs already. One for 3.5 and another's PF 3PP.
That being said, we already have the investigator and the swashbuckler. They're both rogue archetypes. All the better to confuse the players, I'm sure. Just like having a winter witch (witch archetype)/winter witch (PrC) build.
You don't know either, but when they're fighter/cleric or gunslinger/fighter, it's not hard to at least guess what that might entail. So no, I don't figure it's all that hard to make a quality judgement. Especially given how the magus is designed, and how we already have three "books" done by homebrewers on hybrid classes.
At the very least they could have made one more divine based hybrid. I don't see how all 10 of these made the cut over the others.
Now then, that being said, when the playtest pdf comes out and if my group enjoys it, fine. I'll likely buy the book when it comes out next year. However, in the mean time, I'm not holding my breath.
I have to admit that I am most definitely not looking forward to this given the 10 classes we've got coming. Most of them have no point whatsoever.
Arcanist: Seems alright, but a little unnecessary. Guessing that it's got abilities to prepare and be spontaneous at the same time.
Bloodrager: Doesn't sound all that bad. Actually a little intrigued.
Brawler: You can already make a monk into a fighter or vice versa. I see no reason for combining the two.
Hunter: Rangers are already druid/fighters. Other than maybe getting a few very niche bonuses on certain creatures, I don't see the reason for combining the two together.
Investigator: Not bad. Seems like it could work well.
Shaman: Again, seems alright but rather unnecessary. Combining a divine and arcane user could have some benefits.
Skald: Much like the bloodrager, I don't see anything against this. Intrigued, and liking how this could work.
Slayer: Seems like a decent assassin class. Could be alright.
Swashbuckler: This is where you lost me. A gunslinger fighter? Gunslingers ARE fighters. They count as fighters, they get bonus feats like fighters, and they they have deeds which make them better than fighters. Why the combination. Like others, this seems like a bit of a waste. I'd rather see them mixed with rogues. Maybe even a gunslinger/rogue. That I could have accepted.
Warpriest: This was pretty much a given. Just about every group I've ever played in has made a cleric/fighter.
What I would have like to have seen are classes that actually make sense, and are better for the whole party. For example: a paladin/inquisitor and a bard/cavalier. Make someone who's even more dedicated to the law, or maybe you're a knight that rallies the troops together. I'd have called them the Sentinel and the Marshal. Seriously, why weren't these thought of?
James Jacobs wrote:
That's not really what I was asking. I know there isn't a half-drake template. What I asked was if they exist, would they just be a variant version of the half-dragon?
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
I would be perfectly fine with an errata. I had already found the majority of it, but getting proper clarification about everything a more updated version of the ettin cleric would be great.
Speaking of the cleric, after talking to James Jacobs, the ettin technically couldn't be a cleric (at least not in Golarion stature) as an actual deity has to grant spells in Pathfinder. The "GM discretion" is for homebrew purposes, apparently. Still, I only do homebrew so I'm good either way.
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Dumb and OT question: what are good battlefield control spells for an oracle?
Good question. Essentially, all the 3PP spells. The majority of them are curses so he reduces Str, Dex, Con, or he blinds them for a round. There's also the one where all attacks are 50/50 on an opponent.
John Malueg wrote:
- My PC's have complained that they don't have enough magical firepower (which is not true, they have access to most of the damaging spells, they just aren't realizing that their foes are resistant or immune and none of the spellcasters take metamagic feats for some reason), so I am inserting a wizard into the prison. She is a half-orc wizard of the Phantasm school. I think it's a good choice and fitting. The majority of her spells are illusion, so I hope to see some creativity.
Yeah, I'm getting the same thing from my spellcasters as well, but that's partly because while the wizard has been one multiple times, the oracle is a first time divine user, and chose the worst set up for his character so he's only got minimal battlefield control spells. He's starting to wish he was a sorcerer now just so he could have some offensive spells.
And that's fine. Kind of wish I knew him personally so I could go to his place and see what's up, as the games I run at conventions are what he runs at conventions. That's how it was a couple of years ago. However, this year MinionQuest and Throne of Night weren't ready yet so I got to step down and enjoy playing games instead of running them. However, since the first book is out again, I'm being looked at to run them again. I'm hoping to hear from him though so I know what's what.
Book 2 was being written simultaneously alongside Book 1 so I can't help but wonder if he's rushing to finish that since it was so close. And with Bestiary 4 out, he might be thumbing through that to see if he can add a few more monsters into the mix.
I'm guessing, but I know that's what I'd do.
That's probably why he's locked himself away. To make amends and to keep releasing everything he's promised to have done.
James Jacobs wrote:
Don't forget that inquisitors have domains as well.
Fair enough. My one player was hoping for the holy warrior, which drops the two domains and gains full BAB, d10 HD, and the deity's weapon proficiency. The other classes seem to be alright if you take archetypes.
Which comes back to philosophies. In Pathfinder universe atleast, Philosophies DON'T grant domains, you need an actual God to get domains.
That's not what the core book says:If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval). The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Well, it's not that they don't grant domains. I get that. It's more that clerics believe in ideals, or believe that a god gives them power that they get it. So, the Peluda may not grant domains, but the lizardfolk or kobold cleric might believe that they're receiving the fire and power of evil from the "god" that they worship.
And if at all possible, I'd avoid Mythic tiers altogether. That's too much of a headache to deal with.
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Pazuzu is another one that I can think of.
Player and I were discussing this tonight, and we kind of hit a snag as to what the answer should be. In Pathfinder, various monsters have the backstory that they are "worshipped as gods", such as peluda in Bestiary 4. How does one determine what kinds of domains their followers gets? Alignment makes it easy (evil, chaotic, lawful, etc), but what about other domains? The peluda is NE, so it still has Evil, but nothing else really stands out other than the fire breath weapon, so I suppose the Fire domain. Maybe War to represent its loathing of weaker beings? How does one figure this kind of thing out with such limited information? Just guess work that sounds reasonable? Or only allow clerics with archetypes that only have one domain?
Second question. Player was also wondering, what are the chances we'll see the Pathfinder 3.5 Campaign Setting class archetypes brought into the current Pathfinder world? Such as the cold resistant barbarian, the holy warrior cleric, and the hidden reserve sorcerer.
James Jacobs wrote:
Fair enough. I guess all monsters above CR 25 will have to gain templates and/or class levels.
What about character levels? How do we figure that out after 20th level?
Hey hey, had held off a bit as I looked for art for a few other devils and demons. Sooo many variations of each 'race' that's its hard to get a good clean pic of each. Still really haven't found a nice one for handmaiden yet.
If you could get ahold of Book 5 of Way of the Wicked, there's one in there.
So the group continued to scout out the Horn.
They found the journal, the head of the broken statue, used the stone salve on Halthus, and met with Hexor and Vexor who wanted to fight them, but a high diplomacy roll regarding that they were there to free Vetra-Kali got them to let the party go, but only if they went back down the stairs from where they came from. The party is now looking for the amulets as per what was found on the wall. They also came across the oozes, but decided that they were going to use them later. THe wizard used his fire spells with a searing metamagic to confuse the oozes and question why they were being damaged by fire. They chased after him, and are now being held in the torturing room since it looked to be the most air tight (sound proof).
The others are looking to spend a bunch of gold to help spruce up the alchemist lab, the forge, and other places. They're also looking into getting a scroll of speak with dead to talk to the minotaur.
They also discovered how the thrones work, and that there's a secret fourth one somewhere.
The wizard is debating on whether or not they should just sell the golem for spare parts as he's starting to believe that it's too much work to fix it up.
Next session, they head to the third level.
Actually, I was referring more to this. Was looking for people who'd actually played and wanted to know as many details as possible.