If I were a wizard or other primary spellcasting class, I'd buy into this interpretation/house rule of invisibility all day!
Wizard: What? You mean I can go invisible, stand over here in the corner, and spam every spell I've got as a standard action and never become visible? Um, WIN! Yeah, sign me up!
I'd then make sure that all my primary spells had no point of origin, so no enemy would be able to pinpoint me and stop worrying about a thing! Or, do you make sure that every NPC one comes across has see invisibility to counter this?
Emphasis is mine.
I remember there was a huge debate about this during the Mythic playtest. In does say in the CRB that only one spell can be cast per round, unless there is a swift/immediate/free action associated with the casting, at which time two spells can be cast in a round.
Never can three be cast in a round, regardless of whether one has more standard or movement actions left in the round. Mythic rules provide opportunities for additional actions in a round I believe (such as taking a full round action and still getting an additional standard action). A character able to do this, that has a quickened spell available, can still only cast two spells that round, not three. They'll have to use the standard action for other abilities or powers they might have to use.
Not to mention that Paladins can get incredibly powerful. It probably wouldn't do for you to outshine your players either.
Note that pretty much the entire city had been driven mad. It wasn't "well, there are some jerks here, better smite everyone". Also this event is called out as causing a shift in Sarenae's personality, to one of less reckless smiting and more embracing redemption. So yeah it was a mistake on her part that she regrets, and caused a re-examination of her existence. When the Greek Gods, or Yahweh, do something on par with this (and often for less reason), at best we get a shrug.
I spoilered the reply to this so as not to derail thread . . .
As has been pointed out earlier, pantheistic gods are fallible. Thus, when a fallible being does something like destroying a city, naturally said being might shift their personality, regardless of whether their actions were justified.
When Yahweh did something "on par with this," it was because those people fully deserved what they got. There was no need for apology, and the possibility for redemption had always been there for them . . . they chose to ignore it and live the way they wanted to. We reap what we sow. People most often don't like it because we look at the punishment bestowed upon those people of old and say, "Am I any different? Do I deserve the same?" and always the answer seems to be, "Yes." Of course, we'd rather say, "No." So, instead of changing our lifestyle, it's easier to blame Yahweh for His rightful punishment of evil people.
Now, I know that Paizo doesn't like people getting into these arguments, which is why I put this in spoiler tags. However, I do get tired of reading how people trash on God constantly. I'm not even trying to start an argument here. I'm just trying to point out the other side of the story.
For what it's worth, I agree with your statements on alignment categories.
Have a great evening!
Yeah buddy! =D
There is, of course, an easy fix for this little predicament.
Dragonchess Player wrote:
I [b]LOVE[/i] this for four reasons:
1) It's definitely feasible to be dragon-oriented throughout.
There's a ton of upside to this idea.
Space - definitely Spelljammer in the Golarionverse!
I am not a Distant Worlds fan, and I am definitely not a Spelljammer fan (in my Realms, Spelljammer never existed).
However, seeing that we have a bunch of people wanting both, why not combine them by creating a Pathfinder Trek: Distant Worlds AP? There's already precedent set for space ships sent from Golarion in
Doom Comes to Dustpawn
Let's give people the ability to enjoy Golarion's final frontier using the sci-fi tropes that so many already know and love (unless you're more of a fan of that other silly sci-fi mess involving Wars). Give the players an opportunity to build a diverse crew from all around Golarion, become chief officers aboard a star ship where they'll have plenty of NPCs to take command over, and zoom around galaxy to the various distant worlds to tell amazing stories of space drama and true tactical combat in a 3D format!
I think the PF devs could create an unbelievable story in the far reaches of space that wouldn't even need Golarion flavor save for what the PCs bring with them on the journey. Plus, all that planet-hopping would be much more intensive if done via a star ship! Portal-hopping has been done to death, and this would give us an opportunity to experience something far more interesting! And it gives people the ability to pilot a star ship! Throw a mech suit in there someplace, and Paizo has an AP that could not be matched. Sci-fi fanatics would get those six issues they've finally been craving for, and perhaps it would even blow the new Numeria AP out of the water . . . or maybe not.
As for me, I'll still put my vote in for a Land of the Linnorm Kings AP (vikings vs witches), an urban-centric AP in Absalom, or a First World/fey AP. Geb/Nex would be pretty cool too.
I would vote for a Nirmathus/Molthune AP, but if the novel done on it gives any insight into the nature of that fight, it would probably be best for both sides to simply wipe each other out and start from scratch. Neither appeared to have a lick of sense.
I actually welcome the vermin fights. My group has been playing PF for roughly three years now, and I can count on one hand the number of vermin they've squared off against. I see this as an opportunity to let them fight something different from the norm! I welcome it!
Pretty sure Paizo staff have said numerous times that they aren't interested in statting up their true deities. It just doesn't fall in line with their philosophy of what a god is in their multiverse (ie. gods are simply too powerful for PCs to tackle). Naturally, this doesn't mean that those who want to kill gods are playing the game wrong . . . it does appear to mean that such desires lay outside the scope of what Paizo envisions for their world and the people in it, however.
Thus, for those who wish to go on god-killing rampages, I say knock yourselves out . . . but your GM will have to do a little constructive stat-blocking of their own. In my former 2E campaigns, I gave my players numerous chances to put a god down for good. We played in Forgotten Realms, but even with all those gloriously beautiful deity books (Faiths & Avatars, Demihuman Deities, and Powers & Pantheons) full of avatar stats, I wouldn't let them off that easy! Gods shouldn't be a cakewalk. Deciding to take the fight to one of them should mean gruesome death to all heretics and blasphemers that try . . . except, on the rarest occasions, one might find that lucky few. ;)
Needless to say, I have no problems with Paizo's take that gods won't be statted up. I welcome it. If my players want to square off against a god, it's probably best if I do the deed myself anyway.
This actually reminds me of that guy over in the RotR forum that said he and his compatriots will be running an all wizard party for that game.
Personally, I think it's a great idea to try if your players truly want to go for it! Best part about Pathfinder is any combination of party is viable . . . even if that only involves one class!
And let's not forget the trilogy that's growing in popularity in fantasy circles: The Kingkiller Trilogy by Patrick Rothfuss. Fantasy has plenty of examples of many books being used to complete a large story arch without any of them being self contained.
Maybe this tendency that appears to be used more in the fantasy genre than others is what makes it somewhat unique in its story-telling mode.
Chris Kenney wrote:
That's as good an explanation for it as I've heard. I often give my players XP awards for the completion of tasks and the like (or used to, until the rather rigid XP tables of this edition started to make such things difficult). I'm definitely willing to accept such a concept in APs. My thanks.
The Block Knight wrote:
But there's about 2% of all things that are pretty much black-and-white. The earth is round. Water is wet. And people are either accepting or not. Period. There aren't varying degrees of acceptance. Those who claim to be accepting, except for people who don't fit into their band of acceptance, aren't actually accepting, now are they? To be accepting on an issue, you sort of have to go all in. I'll say it again, people are people. There shouldn't be degrees.
Sorry to intrude on this conversation, and with the hellfire being thrown around here, I step into this without intent to make anyone feel bad.
However, I completely disagree with this point. To state it simply and hopefully without anyone reading malice into the point (though you may if you wish, as I'll stand by it anyway): It is entirely possible to be accepting of an individual, but not accepting of certain choices they make. You can love a person without loving certain lifestyle choices they make. Stated another way yet in the same fashion, you can be accepting of the individual yet find certain behaviors unacceptable.
I would also like to say that I'm only part of the way into Part 3 of this book, but have found it very enjoyable for an adventure and am excited to see where it goes. However, as much as I appreciate this adventure, there are choices that were made that I didn't like, such as
on page 18: The party is awarded 600 XP for "managing" to secure Chief Sull's friendship and accept the offer of alliance despite the fact there isn't even a roll that needs to be made to secure those things. They are freely given by the mongrel! Most of the other story awards in the AP I agree with, but not this one. Experience should not be awarded for something freely given and that doesn't even possess any hurdle to acquire.
Okay . . . I've officially learned my lesson! I'll not attach other desired purchases in with my subscriptions to lessen the S&H charges anymore! All right? All right?!?
Can I please get my shipping notice now? I'm dying to bloody read this first installment already!
PS - The first paragraph was written in jest . . . I realize the delay drags because of GenCon. Doesn't mean I'm not getting antsy here! ;)
That's an incredible picture! However, its anatomical construction appears more drake than dragon--based primarily on the forelimb attachment to the wings.
Still, awesome artwork.
You can start saving for my airplane ticket to the next PaizoCon right now. Heck, we could even kickstart it. I'm sure people would throw stupid money for the opportunity to punch me in the face in person. ;-)
. . .
. . . Would that be a guaranteed perk?
This idea of a major over-arching story line for Golarion has been brought up a lot (I expect to see magnus here any time now), but continually gets shot down because Paizo isn't interested in making its own books obsolete through changing canon. They write the canon-altering stories as APs, then gaming groups get to decide which of those happen in their own campaigns. Thus, each of these wonderful ideas listed above can indeed happen; it just won't be Paizo who does it. It would be you, in your own game.
Many of us would hate to see the Forgotten Realms all over again. ;)
I'd actually be more apt to appreciate mecha in a straight fantasy setting like PF than I ever have in "real world" set pieces such as Pacific Rim. I mean come on! One frickin' pin or node breaks or melts from heat on the processor or motherboard and the whole bloody system malfunctions and shuts down, yet you expect me to believe they can build a mech unit that can take a punch and not just collapse into a useless, hulking pile of metal? I think not! ;)
@Feros: I do concur with that. Although from what I've read, the Technic League only thinks they're in control. The gearsmen don't always follow orders. Perhaps the League has thought about world conquest, but they can't get their technology to do what they want it to!
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Most excellent, sir. I thank you! Is your company intending to release any other supplemental material for Words of Power soon? We're starting Jade Regent in January and am desperately trying to improve his repertoire by then!
And thank you for the suggestion! I'll be checking that other one out, as well!
I have at least 1 player who looses interest if the focus shifts away from the players for too long. Hopefully I can integrate the PC's into the mass battles so it's not an issue.
Do you have Reign of Winter Book Five? There's a new creature subtype that Hodges introduces in that book that can actually really help to offer a fantastic way to more integrate into mass combat!
It's called the troop subtype. It's kind of like a swarm with regular soldiers, but with a few different aspects. Honestly, it works perfectly if you want to have a cut-scene combat in the midst of a mass battle sequence, and because the mass combat rules are abstract, you can literally do them both at the same time! This is just a suggestion that I haven't implemented myself yet, but am planning to do so in my KM campaign!
Whereas I got into gaming because of my love for Tolkien and Lewis and Howard . . . and these are the types of fantasy that I enjoy. I played and enjoyed Final Fantasy too, although all those darn airships got old with me incredibly quickly. At the same time, I have a really good friend who played those games for the airships! It's different tastes, which is awesome. Everybody brings something different to the table! What I like about the Numeria AP coming out is that it finally gives those Final Fantasy lovers something in canon to play with, which they've really been missing out on for a long time. Honestly, you all deserve it!
Of course, it also reassures me when the CEO of the companies comes in to say that Golarion is a primarily fantasy world and will stay that way. (I didn't appreciate the ridiculous bickering that brought her in to say it, but I digress.) Because while I am happy for those fantasy/sci-fi/tech lovers, I am still a Tolkien/Lewis fantasy guy at heart, and that's what I truly enjoy. I don't necessarily agree with Cheapy that the majority have turned to the sci-fi/tech perspective on things, but I also don't agree with others here that get disappointed whenever Paizo does something for their sci-fi/tech crowd (though, admittedly, I'm not keen on planet-hopping . . . my apologies).
Paizo has always played things smart here. Dip the toe, and if it gets a good reception, immerse the foot. I'm cool with that. That's what they did here too. Put Numeria-inspired stuff in a couple products like KM and Dungeons of Golarion, put airships in UC, and now it's moved up to an AP with support material. I'm glad they've done this, and I hope the crowd that prefers this continues to get some support for their tastes in future products, as well.
Saying that's where the crowd is leaning though . . . I don't necessarily believe that. The vocal crowd maybe! Which makes sense, as that crowd hasn't had much to play with 'til now. I'm sure there are still a large number out there like myself though, that grew up with good ol' standard fantasy rummaging around in ye ol' imagination and still very much prefer that type of adventure! We just haven't been as vocal because we've got plenty to do! It would disappoint me if I made my switch to Pathfinder only to find that the sci-fi/tech play style was where this world was going, but I know that's not the case. Paizo wouldn't do that. They wouldn't alienate us standard fantasy folk . . . they're simply making the right move by giving the sci-fi/tech fantasy folk their options too. That's smart, and it shows they acknowledge both groups exist to provide new stuff for!
Sadly, as soon as I saw that they'd placed the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords, I knew the Beer & Beards dwarf AP wasn't happening any time soon. If by 2015 people are looking for a more normal fantasy AP, I'd like to see one set in Galt. Like Kingmaker, and like Wrath of the Righteous in being able to change the canon Golarion.
I'd like to go on record as saying that ALL the APs change the canon of Golarion . . . but only in your individual campaigns if you play them! That, in my opinion, remains the brilliance of Paizo's design choice for APs.
If we're kinda starting anew with stuff, I'd still love to see a Land of the Linnorm Kings AP (vikings vs. witches!). Also, I'm a huge fan of the fey, so anything First World-related is win by me. I'll continue to make it known that I'd love to see a draconic AP one day, too!
Jim Groves wrote:
And I was the one that observed the element of the "Scourging of the Shire" theme. I think a lot of that comes from Tolkien's own feelings about returning to Britain at the end of the World War.
Tolkien would be rolling over in his grave if he heard you say this . . . You know that, right? ;)
I honestly love the concept of Machine Gods.
Skynet has corrupted at least one generation. ;)
I'm not keen on the concept, but I'm more than willing to sit back and wait to see what they do with it!
I'm very happy that this AP is coming out for no other reason than hopefully we'll be able to get over all this bickering about alien/robots/lasers vs "boring ol' common fantasy" stuff that so many people are constantly going on about. I don't mind Numeria. Heck, I've got a plot line that involves Numeria in my current Kingmaker campaign. I don't mind aliens. I also have a very alien-intensive Black Tapestry plot line going on in that same Kingmaker campaign that deals a lot with aliens and technology. I believe there's room for all kinds of different roleplaying, despite my greater appreciation for the "boring ol' common fantasy" gaming.
Reading all this crap that seems to constantly go back-and-forth between the two camps certainly does get old, though. Real old.
This thread is about Numeria's new AP. I'll never play it, but I'll definitely own it because I try to get all the lore I can. And besides that, I don't have to turn Golarion into Deep Space Nine or Babylon 5 with spaceship armadas and high-powered laser tech if I don't wish to. I fully support all those who desire to do so, however! (This is in answer to a sourcebook containing such things as spoken above, for those who are scratching their heads right now.)
I do think it would be interesting if Paizo did give some interesting archtypes that fit Numeria tech and the like though. Standard fantasy fare might not be as interesting to play in a game that's high tech. Also, I definitely hope they deliver on the Technic League and the political happenings in Numeria, as well. Those are the things that interest me about that region the most!
Okay, curiosity is peaked . . . Are there rules for 0-level in this system? I don't remember ever reading about them! Where can I find these?
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Well, I'm not advocating keeping enhancement bonuses on weapons or armor. Those enhancements have been dumped already. My question was how to handle minor ability enhancements that appear on certain magic items such as Anaconda's Coil or Belt of the Weasel. Orthos idea to attach stacking rules to them with the inherent bonus--so that if someone has already raised their strength bonus inherently by two, the +2 Strength bonus of the item is negated for them--was a good idea. It makes it so I don't have to worry about fiddling with costs on these items. All major ability enhancement items--or those whose primary job is stat increase, or anything that improves a stat by four or more--have already been removed from my game.
This is the way we've decided to try it. Sounds like complete win to me!
I'm currently using these rules for my Kingmaker AP (I noted this above, I believe). There are a couple things I've recognized while going through this that one must be aware of.
First, there are some magic properties that require an enhancement bonus for them to work. An example of this would be the property defending. Without the enhancement bonus, there simply isn't any way to determine its capability. My initial reaction to this was to allot such a property a bonus equal to the enhancement necessary to put it into effect. In this case, defending would have a +1 bonus for allotment because that's the requirement for the property. I would then allow for the player to pay to increase that enhancement if desired for the weapon. This seemed the most logical way to tackle this problem, other than simply not allowing such properties to be taken, which I thought kind of a sad thing.
Second, with the introduction of Ultimate Equipment, there are now a ton of magic items out there that do small ability enhancement coinciding with other powers inherent in the item (I'm sure many of these already existed in other sources that I just never had access to). Something like the belt Anaconda's Coils, which offer bonuses to grappling and offer a constrict ability when grappling, but also grant a +2 bonus to Strength. I'm still a little uncertain as to the best way to handle this, as granting that additional +2 Strength bonus flies in the face of the natural ability enhancement through progression, yet the item is not really about that bonus. Should I just eliminate the ability enhancement from said items at a specific cost reduction and let all else go? Curious at what others might think about this.
I could probably be convinced with the right background story.
As could I . . . but it better be a wail of a backstory, cuz it would have to blow my mind for me to allow this. Rarely do I ever rule anything out, however. Gotta give the players a chance!
Being raised by Cyphermages probably wouldn't be enough to convince me though. ;)
Player's Guide is free content. It must take backseat to other things that are not free. I wouldn't care if it comes a week after; I'm simply happy they provide us with one! ;)
I was not a long-time order monkey for this one, and I didn't know about the kickstart until after it was over. I did preorder RC and HotRC sometime about March or April, I think.
When should I expect my hard copies? A couple months? Beginning of the year?
This is more just to dull down my anticipation than anything. ;)
I thought that same thing, actually. Perhaps the idea is that once you get to 20th level with 10 tiers you're simply the best you can possibly be without becoming a god, who are light years beyond you still.
Or, maybe the intent is that no one will ever reach 20/10? Somehow I doubt that could possibly be the design choice, so I have to believe that CR 30 is the precipice. And it's still APL +1, isn't it, since a 20/10 character via the Pathfinder system would technically be CR 29?
And the opportunity for someone to go wild with the Crypt Breaker archetype alchemist from Inner Sea Magic! Love that archetype, and Osirion pyramid/crypts are where the concept originates from! If I wasn't the primary GM for my group, you can bet that's what I'd be playing in this one!
Damn. Not that I have anything against Rich, but I was hoping for Brandon after the fantastic Rasputin Must Die!
Well, thus far, my favorite Book Six that Paizo has released was written by Mr. Pett, so I'm more than happy to hear this revelation! The man just knows how to finish an AP.
Granted, Mr. Hodge would a very close second. =)
I can't find the Thassilonian Scholar trait to comment on it . . . I have found the Scholar of the Ancients trait in the RoRLAE PG, however, and that trait offers way more bonuses than I'd give out for someone who's spent a short time gathering knowledge on Thassilon. That trait is for those who have been studying/collecting knowledge on a long dead civilization for all their lives, or thereabouts.
I think what I'd do is wrap it up more in the Linguistics side, since while actual history of Thassilon is very, very difficult to find and know the truth about, Brodert Quink has probably gotten a rather firm grip on the language. So, I'd give them a something equivalent to a trait that opens up Linguistics as a class skill (if it wasn't already), gives a +1 bonus to Linguistics (if it was already a class skill), and gives them the Thassilonian language. However, I suppose I could understand a +1 to Knowledge (history) checks in Thassilonian history, as well. I would probably make a choice between the Linguistics or History though, definitely not both.
I'd be right on the edge about this one, myself. I'm typically not one who would tell a player they can't play something, but a Thassilonian specialist wizard seems almost too intrusive in a campaign where so very little is actually known about Thassilon!
However, it would certainly be possible that someone could convince me. There is an NPC scholar in Sandpoint named Brodert Quink that--in his long research of Thassilon--might have dug up just enough to realize the difference in theories between Thassilonian specialty and magic as it's currently understood.
Granted, even if I allowed this, there's no way the player would know a great deal about Thassilon historically. No way. However, if the backstory is designed within reason, I could be persuaded to allow it.
I recall that Faiths & Avatars touched upon some of these varying beliefs and different orders and the like too, so that's fine! =)
The mythology that has placed dragons as an off-shoot of the First World linnorms was way wrong . . . Dragons actually are the Dominion of the Black, an alien species that has yet to reveal their deepest and darkest secrets for Golarion. Even the metallics have only been playing a role of true deception up to this point, establishing themselves hereto as agents of good, simply waiting for the right time to spring their plan into action.
Who knew, all this time, dragons were actually dark agents from the stars?
Jim Groves wrote:
All this time I've been waiting for Paizo to finally give me a solid adventure where a dragon is the primary focus! Where a dragon gets his due!!! Only to find out this?!? It was a lie! A lie all along!!!
Why? WHY?!? You build me up only to tear me down . . .
Is nothing sacred to you people? What have you against the awesomeness of dragons that you refuse to let them shine?!?
/hangs head in discouragement
I would really like to see Castrovel and Akiton myself in an AP, campaign setting book, and/or module. The problem with doing this kind of stuff with a module is you don't get a several page article about the planet or a bestiary 4-6 creatures from that world.
I'm almost positive you've already got that several page article about the planet in that one book . . . oh, shoot, what's it called? Distant Worlds?