Kirhosk

Modera's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 456 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Diego Valdez wrote:

Hello Modera,

Your order should have arrived by now so it sounds like it was lost in the post. I have set up a replacement order for you which should be on its way soon. You will be receiving an email confirmation. Please look it over and let me know if any changes need to be made.

Thank you!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi there,

The above order 4481229 has been lost in the mail. As of today, Nov 1, I have not received it. Can we set something up to replace it?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi,

Received this recently and noticed that my Hells Vengeance volume 2 was missing. Is it in another shipment?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I've now updated the credit card number, so feel free to charge me for this order.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi all, and sorry if this is in the wrong place.

I recently had a player start in my Age of Worms Golarion game. In my game, I'm using contacts and factions quite a bit, and the player ended up being an adventurer for the Knights of Ozem.

I had thought (incorrectly) that there was already a pre-made Faction for the Knight of Ozem, however there was not.

Recently I put one together, and wanted some feedback on it.

Link is here

If the above doesn't work, I'll just post it here, if that's okay.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Thank you so much, that's much appreciated Justin.

I'll put up a new post if the first one comes in.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi there,

I haven't quite received this order yet, and I'm starting to get a little worried. Is there anyway to check on the status of this order, where it is, etc?

Thanks,

Modera

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I recently stated up Dragotha. My plan is to hand out Mythic levels once they

AoW Spoiler:
put balakarde's soul back together

Here's my finished Mythic Dragotha, any comments/criticisms are welcome.

Dragotha Spoiler:

Dragotha
Variant lich mythic red dragon wyrm
CR 27
XP 3,276,800

CE Gargantuan undead (dragon, fire, mythic)
Init +14(M); Senses blindsight 60 ft., darkvision 120 ft., low-light vision, smoke vision, x-ray vision; Perception +39
Aura fire (10 ft., 2d6 fire), frightful presence (330 ft., DC 39), fear (60 ft., DC 39)
DEFENSE
AC 65, touch 11, flat-footed 64 (+8 armor, +4 deflection, +1 dodge, +46 natural, –4 size) 1d4+5 images (max 12), Will DC 28 or dazzled
hp 554 (27d8+432); fast healing 5
Fort +34, Ref +19, Will +26
Defensive Abilities channel resistance +4, dragon blood (2d6 fire), fortification (50%), rejuvenation;
DR 20/epic and magic, 15/bludgeoning and magic;
Immune dragon traits, cold, electricity, fire, paralysis, sleep; Resist acid 30, sonic 30; SR 36
OFFENSE
Speed 90 ft., fly 250 ft. (clumsy)
Melee bite +56 (4d6+38/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)), 2 claws +54 (2d8+28/19–20 plus bleed and grab), 2 wings +54 (2d6+14), tail slap +54 (2d8+38) or
Power Attack: bite +49 (4d6+66/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)), 2 claws +47 (2d8+49/19–20 plus bleed and grab), 2 wings +47 (2d6+24), tail slap +47 (2d8+49) or
Greater Vital Strike: bite +56 (16d6+38/18–20/x3 plus bleed and grab plus 1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis (Fort DC 39)) or
touch +56 (1d8+13 negative energy plus paralysis Fort DC 39)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 15 ft. (20 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks bleed (2d6), breath weapon (60-ft. cone, 22d10 fire damage, Reflex DC 32 half, usable every 1d4 rounds), crush, dragon fury (2d6 fire), lingering breath (4d6 fire, 10 rounds), manipulate flames, melt stone, mythic power (10/day,8 left, surge +1d12), sooty flame, swallow whole (2d6 bludgeoning and 2d6 fire damage, AC 28, 51 hp), tail sweep (DC 32, 2d6+25), wild arcana
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 27th; concentration +34)
At will—detect magic, find the path, pyrotechnics (DC 19), suggestion (DC 20), wall of fire
Sorcerer Spells Known (caster level 17th; concentration +24)
8th (4/day)—create greater undead, horrid wilting (DC 34)
7th (7/day)—destruction (DC 33), forcecage M, greater teleport
6th (7/day)—geas/quest (DC 32) M, greater dispel magic, harm (DC 32) M
5th (7/day)—dominate person (DC 31), telekinesis (DC 31), wall of force M, waves of fatigue
4th (7/day)—charm monster (DC 30), dimension door, ice stormM, sending
3rd (8/day)—animate dead, haste M**, inflict serious wounds (DC 29), ray of exhaustion (DC 29) M
2nd (8/day)—blindness/deafness (DC 28), death knell (DC 28), detect thoughts* (DC 28), mirror image* M, resist energy
1st (8/day)—divine favor*M, inflict light wounds (DC 27), magic missile M, unseen servant, shield of faith*
M Mythic spell
* Already Cast
** Already factored, not yet cast
STATISTICS
Str 50*, Dex 11*, Con -, Int 22, Wis 23, Cha 42*
* Dragotha has a +5 inherent bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Charisma scores
Base Atk +27; CMB +51 (+55 grapple); CMD 66 (70 vs. trip)
Feats Critical Focus M, Greater Vital Strike, Improved Critical (bite) M, Improved Critical (claws), Improved Initiative M, Improved Iron Will, Improved Vital Strike, Iron Will M, Multiattack, Persistent Spell, Power Attack M, Quicken Spell, Staggering Critical, Vital Strike
Skills (+3 to all because of mythic divine favor) Appraise +30, Bluff +40, Diplomacy +40, Fly +10, Intimidate +40, Knowledge (arcana) +31, Knowledge (geography) +31, Knowledge (history) +31, Knowledge (nature) +31, Knowledge (religion) +31, Perception +39, Sense Motive +39, Spellcraft +31, Stealth +32, Use Magic Device +41; Racial Modifiers +8 Perception, +8 Sense Motive, +8 Stealth
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Orc
SQ dragon cantrips, mythic spellcasting
Possessions headband of alluring charisma +6, ring of spell turning, amulet of mighty fists +5, bracers of armor +8, two doses of ruby dust (worth 1,500 gp each) for forcecage spells
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Fire Aura (Su) A wyrm red dragon is surrounded by an aura of
intense heat. All creatures within 10 feet take 2d6 points of
fire damage at the beginning of the dragon’s turn.
Manipulate Flames (Su) A wyrm red dragon can control any fire spell within 110 feet of the dragon as a standard action. This ability allows it to move any fire effect in the area, as if it were the caster. This ability also allows it to reposition a stationary fire effect, although the new placement must be one allowed by the spell. Finally, for 1 round following the use of this ability, the dragon can control any new fire spell cast within its area of control, as if it were the caster. It can make all decisions allowed to the caster, including canceling the spell if it so desires.
Melt Stone (Su) The dragon can use its breath weapon to melt rock at a range of 100 feet, affecting a 55-foot-radius area. The area becomes lava to a depth of 1 foot. Any creature in contact with the lava takes 20d6 points of fire damage on the first round, 10d6 on the second, and none thereafter as the lava hardens and cools. If used on a wall or ceiling, treat this ability as an avalanche that deals fire damage.
Persistent Spells Dragotha casts divine favor, shield of faith, detect thoughts, mirror image, resist energy (acid) and resist energy (sonic) every day as persistent spells.

I'm working on Kyuss, and I keep hitting a mental block on him as well.

Scarab Sages Star Voter Season 6

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Thank you Eric! I'm quite happy that someone saw my item. Thank you so much for putting this up. I was worried I had gone over count, and I'm very happy to see I wasn't culled.

Scarab Sages Star Voter Season 6

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

For awhile there I saw a triplet of very similar ideas, and that was post-cull. They have faded away now.

Scarab Sages Star Voter Season 6

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

And now I'm paranoid as to what I missed on my item. I swear I followed the template... but... did I? Great, being paranoid is not helping this year.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Thank you!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi there,

In order 1772326 I pre-ordered the Pathfinder Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (PFRPG) Hardcover.

Since then, you have put up the special edition, and I'm interested in purchasing it instead. Is there anyway I can switch one for the other, or is it too late?

Thanks!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Quick question: Let's say, hypothetically, I ordered the "Regular" version already, however I wanted to switch it out for the above version. Is that possible?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Michael Foster 989 wrote:

Does no one actually read the evolutions for Eidolons?

Each magic evolution has 2 stages, one the basic stage gives you 1/day of a spell, the 2nd stage (improved version) has a level requirement and an Additional evolution point cost to allow you to cast multiple times in one day.

The shaitan binder's eidolon gets all the basic ones for free (so it gets 1/day of the spells chosen) and then if you want more castings you have to pay the evolution cost for the improved version.

the relavent text for minor magic is as follows "At 7th level, this spell can be cast three times per day by spending 2 additional evolution points." this is the Improved version the shaitan binder refers to

Thank you! I didn't have the books in front of me, and couldn't find the improved part in d20pfsrd

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi,

I'm a little confused as to the rules on the following ability, specifically where I've bolded it.

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Shaitan Magic (Su): At 4th level, a shaitan binder’s eidolon gains the basic magic evolution (Ultimate Magic) as a free evolution. At 6th level, it gains the minor magic evolution (Ultimate Magic).
At 8th level, it gains the major magic evolution (Ultimate Magic) as a free evolution, and adds the following to the list of available spells for that evolution: glitterdust and soften earth and stone.
At 12th level, it gains the ultimate magic evolution (Ultimate Magic) as a free evolution, and adds the following to the list of available spells for that evolution: meld into stone and stone shape.
Although the shaitan binder gains the standard versions of these evolutions for free, he must pay the normal cost to upgrade them to the improved versions. This ability replaces shield ally and greater shield ally.

As I understand it, your Eidolan gains the evolution for free, however you have to pay the Evolution Pool cost to use the new spells? Or do you gain the first evolution for free and then each one you pay extra for?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

While converting Demonweb Pits I converted the Cranium Rats swarm. Granted this was one of the first things I converted, so feel free to review/change/discard it.

Cranium Rats:
Cranium Rat Swarm, Greater Pack
CR 9
XP 6,400
NE Tiny magical beast (extraplanar, swarm)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60ft, low-light vision, scent; Perception +25
Defense
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 12 (+3 Dex, +2 size)
hp 120 (16d10+32)
Fort +12, Ref +13, Will +9
Immune cold; SR 26; Defensive Abilities swarm traits, half damage from slashing or piercing weapons
Offense
Speed 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee swarm (4d6)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks distraction (DC 20)
Spells (CL 10th; concentration +14)
5th – (3/day) hold monster (DC 19)
4th – (6/day) contagion (DC 18), fire shield
3rd – (7/day) fireball (DC 19), lightning bolt (DC 19), slow (DC 17)
2nd – (7/day) blur, knock, mirror image, see invisibility
1st – (7/day) charm person (DC 15), expeditious retreat, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, shocking grasp
0 – dancing lights, daze (DC 14), detect magic, flare (DC 14), ghost sound (DC 14), mage hand, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic
Statistics
Str 2, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 19, Wis 14, Cha 19
Base Atk +16; CMB —; CMD
Feats Alertness, Combat Casting, Eschew Spell MaterialsB, Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Penetration
Skills Acrobatics +22, Climb +23, Knowledge (arcane) +20, Perception +25, Sense Motive +22, Spellcraft +20
Special Abilities
Mind Blast (Su) 60-foot cone, at will. DC 23 Will save or be stunned 1d6 rounds.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
thejeff wrote:


I've got no idea how they expect to make the modular thing work. At least if they try it on the scale they're claiming.

The traditional way would be, to use your example: Theres a psionics module. If you use it, players can choose psion classes and the abilities that go along with them. If not they can't. Not really any different than a group not buying a sourcebook or not allowing gunslingers in their game. This happens in pretty much every system anyway.

Agreed completely. They'll have to be wary of what they put in each book though if they approach this method.

For instance: In Races of the Wild, there were a bunch of new feats for arrows and some cool new arrows. This was where the book shined (IMHO). However if I didn't care about elves/halflings/raptorians, I probably wouldn't have bought the book. And some DMs are known for throwing out the baby with the bathwater (ex. "Raptorians are overbalanced, banning Races of the Wild").

So to avoid this, is each book going to be made up of modules? So if I bought the cowboy book, will there be a guns module, a gunslinger class module, a gun tricks module, etc.? I could see that working. (Granted I'm just guessing and musing out loud).

thejeff wrote:

The other is more what I think they mean. Optional rules systems. Backgrounds and Themes are specifically mentioned on the playtest character sheets as being optional. This may extend as far as Skills and Feats being entirely optional. If your player found a cool large weapon feat, but you're not playing with feats, then he can't use it.

The second seems to be more problematic. First, going by what little info we have, both Background and Theme add abilities to the characters, making them more powerful and letting them do more cool things. In my experience, that means pretty much everyone is going to want to use them. Second, as the number of possible combinations of modules gets bigger, it seems to me adventure design gets harder. It'll have to handle not just the changed power levels from different modules, but also different ways to handle situations. For example, resolving a task with formal Skill Challenges, basic skill rolls, or just ability checks depending on what skill system is in use. Just possible examples, I have no idea what options there will be for skill systems.

I didn't even think about the power level. Food for thought, thank you.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
CommandoDude wrote:
A bunch of stuff that bothered someone

Look, here's how these situations go down:

You do something that bothers someone. That one thing you listed bothered them, a lot. It could be something else that was not listed, such as something they think of as shallow, like perhaps the way you pronounce words, play your character, eat, etc.

Maybe they aren't good with confrontation or communication, or maybe they hinted you shouldn't and you didn't pick up on it. We don't know, we weren't there.

None the less, it happened at some point and enough people noticed and were annoyed.

Then it snowballed. It always does. Eventually you did something enough that they nitpicked every little thing you did and found fault with all of it. We all do this.

I, for instance, don't look people in the eye when talking to them and stare at others when I ask for their turn. This is confusing. Does it bother people? No. If it did, they'd probably get annoyed and also point out that my cooking isn't always great, I tend to pass gas a lot, and I expect some help in the kitchen and don't so much "ask" for help as I "tell" people to help.

Getting back to you, yes, some of the things listed seem innocent enough and aren't THAT big of a deal when viewed by us, the internet, without being there for 2 or 3 years.

If you want to avoid it, learn from these things and apply that learning in the future.

1. Ask for permission to drink others stuff (we're in a recession, money is tight)

2. Curb your swearing a little in those situations (they could have kids, neighbours, etc. that don't want to hear that)

3. Make sure that any debts are important to YOU and don't wait to be asked. I know debts bug me, and someone forgetting is awkward and annoying.

4. If you are bringing snacks and no one is eating them but you, assess the situation before just giving up.

Ask yourself:

Is it because you leave them beside you and they don't feel comfortable reaching for your snacks? Did you offer anyone them (every time, not just the first time)?

Is it because you eat them all before anyone has a chance? I'm not calling you fat, I do this too.

Is it because they are on specific diets? What are others bringing? If I bring fruit all the time, I'm not eating cookies.

When you or others reach in to grab a snack, have they licked their hands recently or perhaps not washed? Even if someone did this once it can turn off others to doing this again?

Are you buying from a store everyone else knows has rats? It's silly but it could be why.

Good ways to solve this are saying "Hey, I bring these [types of snacks] each time however it seems I'm the only one eating them" to them and let them say "Yeah, no one likes those" or "Gee, you're right, we always forget about them" or "Yeah, that place has rats, we thought you knew".

If you don't want to change, and feel they are being nit-picky, then move on. Is this going to matter in 3 months? Does it matter what complete strangers think on the internet?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
The system's simplicity is the draw for me, and will be for others, I suspect. A 5-page combat section in one place handily beats out 9 pages in the 3.5 DMG + 30 pages in the 3.5 PHB, or 26 pages in the PF Corebook.
thejeff wrote:
I really, really doubt that'll last into the final system. At the very least they'll add optional systems for all the things you mention, in which case you'll probably need to reference both. Most likely, all sorts of feats and special rules for those will appear. We've already seen some. It's just that they're currently only on the character sheet, we don't have the rules sections that they come from.
If the options are just that, options, then the simplicity will still be there. I don't have a problems with a "complexity module" tacked on. Options can be ignored without having to radically alter the system.

I'm kinda scratching my head on this one, because of how we define "options". Perhaps I'm not well informed on DDN.

Do the "options" include new classes, feats, or abilities, such as those found in new books like the APG from PF or the Complete series from 3.5? I could see a player being rubbed the wrong way if they found one of the above in a product they bought and wasn't able to use it because the module it came with wasn't being used. I understand that can happen in any game, just the modular method of DDN would promote it more.

It also speaks to what GMs are buying versus what players buy (I am a GM and thus bought the GM guide, my players bought the APG, for instance).

And to clarify, I mean if they found a psion class or a large weapon feat, for instance, not so much a cowboy class or a spelljammer-esque feat.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hi all,

So far for all of the APs I've run I've painted the last boss miniature.

I'm about to start Legacy of Fire once Kingmaker ends. I want to paint up the last boss for Legacy of Fire, however from looking through the Reaper minis, he hasn't been made yet.

It'll be a few months before I need something, however I was wondering:

1) Has anyone heard anything about an upcoming Jhavhul miniature? (I'm reaching, I know)

2) What have others used for this mini (assuming that you did use something)?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

First question: Have you every played a Civilization computer game?

If yes, skip to **. If no, keep reading

So in any of the Civilization games, eventually you hit the end of the game, and you're running 20 some odd cities, 40+ land units, 10+ water units, are building a ship to another planet and each turn is taking 12 hours because you have to wait for everyone to move. It turns into this slow, drawn out long winded game of moving tiny things and building up queues and really wish that France and India would stop invading each other just so that turns would go quicker.

** The end of Kingmaker is like that for kingdom building. Your players will take 1/2 an hour to get through one round of kingdom building. They will have more Build Points than they'll know what to do with. Plan on rolling a LOT of random magic items.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Some ideas off the top of my head:

+2 to Disguise to look like one another

A language only they know (or a +2 to pass on secret messages to one another)

1/day for 1 round they can each act like they have all of the teamwork feats each has?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
LastKingDown wrote:
It just feels like its us 3 against the DM, and his favorite, but your right.. Perhaps we can jut RP it that way...

Sorry, this reply rubbed me the wrong way.

It is you three versus the DM. That's not a bad thing. Just because you outnumber the people doing something you don't like doesn't mean you are in the wrong. It means that 3 of you differ in opinion to 2 others.

The DM and the player are having fun making his character better by bending the rules. The DM feels you outshine others and has a favourite. Sounds like you have a past together, and the DM didn't like how you played in other games.

RP isn't the answer here. Either have an adult conversation and/or find another game. Anything else is just going to annoy you and others.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
KaptainKrunch wrote:
Modera wrote:
Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!

I'm glad people are liking it. It's costing me a good portion of my vacation :O

(Seriously though, doing this is good for me too. It's getting my itch to play a Wizard back on that I lost from losing some of my favorite SC spells in 3.5)

Yeah, I'm usually the DM, however I've been able to join a Second Darkness game as a Wizard. Thematically I knew what I wanted to do, however I have no idea which to choose. The updated guide (along with the original) has been a great resource.

I don't know if it was covered and I missed it though; is there any thoughts to looking at Wizard prestige classes? Or is that less optimal?

Edit: Realized Treantmonk went through a bunch of them already.

So to revise my question, even though Wizards don't get new spells/level in their spell book, are prestige classes worth it and are there plans to look at any prestige classes not covered last time?

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
STR Ranger wrote:

Hi.

...

But TWF preqs are high.
...
Combat style ingnores twf preqs
...

I noticed that you miss out on your first feat at 2nd level because of Wild Stalker.

Is that an issue for you if you're playing low level? Seems like you have to still hit the prereqs for TWF.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Modera wrote:

GMed Age of Worms twice (3.5). Both groups TPKed, one at the 5th book and one at the 7th book.

GMed and finished Rise of The Runelords (3.5) and Curse of the Crimson Throne (3.p conversion).

Currently GMing Kingmaker (3.p). They are starting the 5th adventure on April 24th (I'm using a hybrid of Jason's original and the printed version). I'm aiming to have the campaign done end of May/mid June.

Starting on Legacy of Fire (3.p conversion) after Kingmaker is done.

I've played in one 4 hour session of Second Darkness (3.p). The DM had to take time off for RPG superstar for awhile, and then there was a break in time so it's on hiatus for a bit.

There was a request for how long each of these took.

Age of Worms: Was playing every Saturday and we were in University, so 12 hours 3-4 times a month. We played a total of 5 months each time.

Rise of the Runelords: We played 7 sessions, each was 18 hours across 2 days. Total time: 1 year, 2 months.

Curse of the Crimson Throne: Again, 7 sessions, 18 hours across 2 days. Total time: 1 year, 4 months

Kingmaker: Games are now 1/month, about 11 hours of game time, on Saturdays (we got old). We started February last year, and we're aiming to finish end of May/mid June.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Other than "they took some guys stuff", which you find morally wrong, why do you want them to give it back?

Is it too powerful? Did he have an artefact? Do they have too much money/stuff?

As many people have said (here and before), Pathfinder and DnD is basically a game where you fight the "monster" and steal it's stuff. Getting "stuff" is part of the game for a lot of players, and taking that part of the game away by guilt tripping players is like taking away combat from the game without telling anyone.

For the future: If you don't want the PCs to have a NPCs stuff, then you shouldn't give him it, or you shouldn't have the PCs to apprehend him, and you should have the authorities request his valuables along with him and given the PCs incentive to do so (such as a customizable reward).

If you're really worried (and unless you gave them a lot of stuff, don't be), I'd honestly talk to your players, explain you screwed up, and ask if you can Retcon the situation so that the authorities request his valuables and offer the players a reward to do so. Then if they try to lie to get his stuff, you can RP the whole thing and see if they bluff their way out of the situation.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

GMed Age of Worms twice (3.5). Both groups TPKed, one at the 5th book and one at the 7th book.

GMed and finished Rise of The Runelords (3.5) and Curse of the Crimson Throne (3.p conversion).

Currently GMing Kingmaker (3.p). They are starting the 5th adventure on April 24th (I'm using a hybrid of Jason's original and the printed version). I'm aiming to have the campaign done end of May/mid June.

Starting on Legacy of Fire (3.p conversion) after Kingmaker is done.

I've played in one 4 hour session of Second Darkness (3.p). The DM had to take time off for RPG superstar for awhile, and then there was a break in time so it's on hiatus for a bit.

Scarab Sages Star Voter Season 6

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Scarlet God

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Wow I wish you guys were in Canada, I'd apply in a heartbeat for the project manager job. Oh well, good luck finding someone!

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
shallowsoul wrote:
Modera wrote:


You are correct: [b]There's nothing in RAW stopping someone from doing the Staff of Wish save for GM limitations that are inherent to each step in the process.[b\] And XP costs would stop this one example from coming true.

This is what I am trying to hammer home. A rule was in place that would not allow this type of thing but now that the rule is gone abuse like this can come into play. Rule 0 shouldn't be needed to fix RAW.

I understand that: However the rest of my post is illustrating that one hiccup by one character that can (and is) covered by rule 0 doesn't mean the whole system is broken.

Allow me to give an example:

Imagine for a second that a certain make of car exploded if it went 500 mph. The thing that blows up otherwise makes the car more fuel efficient.

In one place on Earth, on a mountain racetrack, which can only be accessed by a group of people carrying the car up in pieces and then putting the car back together, that car can reach 500 mph. This area is ruled by a greedy, powerful dictator who doesn't allow anyone near the racetrack. Everywhere else on the planet the car cannot reach this speed.

It is theoretically possible for that car to get to that racetrack and blow up. Should the improvement be taken out of the car?

Well to answer that we'd need some better reasons to take that improvement out other than some racetrack that no one will ever get to.

Same with your example: It exists, it's just never going to happen. So changing everything to make sure one staff of wishes never happens to a first time DM running a 20th level campaign may seem like we're over exaggerating.

If we had more mid-level examples stating "and here's another reason this screws up the game" then perhaps we'd see where you're coming from.

Scarab Sages

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shallowsoul wrote:


If you go and look in the Top 5 powerful classes board you will see someone posting about a Sorcerer who can create a Staff of Wishes with 60+ charges on it. Now I told him he couldn't do that but he is arguing that he can. Now if there is a mechanical way to do this then there is a problem. Needing to invoke rule 0 in order to fix something is not a good thing. Now if the poster is wrong then that's okay but when I start looking at other things then I can see where XP is needed to hold back certain other abuses.

Ah, there it is. Thank you for pointing that out.

It's a cute little trick he's found. Ridiculous, time wasting, and utterly never allowed in any game. Nonetheless it's quite smart and would raise some concern.

You are correct: There's nothing in RAW stopping someone from doing the Staff of Wish save for GM limitations that are inherent to each step in the process. And XP costs would stop this one example from coming true.

Is there another such example of this issue that hasn't become apparent?

Perhaps it would be best to convince us with other examples that could happen at lower levels (where most players play) to see how damaging the lack of XP in costs could be.

I'm not saying that this example isn't shocking: Rather I'm pointing out that this is a 20th level hack that requires a player to amass 410k in diamonds and spend 1300+ days crafting one magic item. A novice DM may fall victim to it (The big evil waits 4 years to enact his plan against the strongest adventurers ever...), however it is quite the extreme circumstances.

Scarab Sages

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shallowsoul wrote:
I wouldn't allow this kind of crap at all. I'm just stating that if there is a way then the DM shouldn't have to invoke rule 0 to combat this kind of behavior. In game boundaries and rules should be in place.

So... wait. I think I'm confused. Are you currently arguing right now about a 20th level build that can make a staff of wish that contains 60+ wishes/day? And if so, how do they use fabricate to abuse to make this?

What I'm saying is you don't have to use rule 0: There's actual building rules in place to ensure that players can't make such items.

Scarab Sages

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shallowsoul wrote:


I'm in the process of arguing right now about a 20th level build that can make a Staff of Wish that contains 60+ wishes a day. It's using the Fabricate abuse and I still think there is a flaw somewhere but if Wish still had it's XP costs then we wouldn't even be having the argument.

Wait a second... let's back the bus up before we get to hot under the collar. Staff of Wish with 60+ wishes/day?

To start, looking at the rules, any item that is made by a player that doesn't exist in a book already is subject to the GMs approval.

So if you're the GM (which I assume you are, apologies if you are not), then you've approved that the 20th level player with 880,000gp can buy such a staff. The Core details that for a balanced approach you should only allow a player to spend up to 25% on other magic items, or 220,000 gp.

I'm going to assume you've waived that rule or decided to not employ it.

A luck blade with 3 wishes costs 142,960. For simplicity sake let's say the 3 wishes are about 100,000 gp. That's 3 one time uses of wish for 100,000 gp.

Staves normally are limited to having only 10 charges. I'd have to assume that any 9th level spell wish a component cost of 25,000 in a staff would take all 10 charges (please correct me if I'm wrong, I couldn't find something comparable to wish in a staff).

So we have the ability to cast 60+ wishes a day with a staff, which since it's a staff is rechargeable. It has about 600+ charges, and thus is more powerful than the staff of the magi and the shadowstaff, both of which are artifacts.

At the very least that item is the greatest artifact ever (and thus is impossible to create).

If I was in your position, the problem isn't XP costs in Pathfinder. It's that they are attempting to make a 100 quadrillion GP artifact. If the players argues, explain that this would break the game and give them the artifacts listed as examples as to why this is broken.

Apologies if you meant wand of wish.

Scarab Sages

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Three things come to mind:

1. The barbarian will have to be close to people to break their stuff. What kind of fight set up are we looking at with the barbarian? Is he starting 20 feet away? Does he charge and hit someone first round? Does the party have a wizard or is sneaky?

2. My players (and I) would not have fun in a game where I spent a long time writing up magical items to have one (or more) of them destroyed in the first encounter.

Or to put it bluntly: If I asked you to spend 2-3 hours making a cake, and then threw it on the ground (giving you a chance to catch it), would you have a good time?

3. Are you going to tell the players that sundering will be a main aspect of this game? That will make them knowledgeable and less likely to be angry.

Scarab Sages

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Gruingar de'Morcaine wrote:

You are right about expanded arcana. Isn't there something that does let you add from off list?

He will be around level 9-11 when first encountered. Could easily be several levels before they need or manage to figure out that he is not a sorc.

Do you really need it? I mean, it's resist energy. A wand or scroll plus some sleight of hand or a ring or two of resist energy and no one is going to be the wiser.

Scarab Sages

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Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

Ok, if we try a witch.

I assume the element patron would give the spells that match closest.

Spells: Not familiar with the witch list yet, does it include all of the draconic bloodline spells? May need expanded arcana

mage armor (3rd) (on the witch spell list)

resist energy (5th) (not on the witch spell list)
fly (7th) (on the witch spell list)
fear (9th) (on the witch spell list)
spell resistance (11th) (not on the witch spell list)
form of the dragon I (13th) (not on the witch spell list)
form of the dragon II (15th) (not on the witch spell list)
form of the dragon III (17th) (not on the witch spell list)
wish (19th) (not on the witch spell list)

Note that expanded arcana doesn't let you take from other class' spell lists. However Witches get UMD as a class skill. A wand of resist energy would last until he hits level 11.

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

improved familiar to something a dragon blood might keep as a pet

Looking at the list there are two choices for dragons: Faerie dragons can be CN, and Pseudodragons are NG. You could DM fiat that he has an exception to one of these that's evil.

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

wasn't there a feat that gives a bonus to both bluff and disguise (i'll have to check)

Deceitful

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:


?what else?

At that point you have a pretty well polished character. What level would he be? And what level will he be when the players should find out about his deception?

Scarab Sages

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DM Azure_Zero wrote:

Dark Moon Vale Series of modules.

Hollows Last Hope,
Crown of the Kobold King,
Revenge of The Kobold King,
Carnival of Tears,
Hungry are the Dead

Quick question about the above: I've read these, and...

Dark Moon Vale Series Spoiler:
I found the general setting/outcomes of the each adventure in this series was a downer. Was this more in the background or is this my view of small towns creeping in or did the players notice it and not feel as "rewarded" with the outcomes?

Scarab Sages

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Personally I liked the Crypt of the Everflame. I ran it for some pretty experience players and they were wowed. You may have to flub some things though, as I remember it being somewhat difficult.

I haven't run it yet, however the beginner box is getting a lot of good reviews from what I've seen.

Scarab Sages

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Given the low score in Charisma, I'm thinking either wizard or witch. Wizard would be interesting because then the NPC needs to spend lots of time studying and "tricking" everyone and keeping this a secret.

Witch would be interesting because in a bid to hide his past he made a sinister deal. Take the nails hex to substitute claws and use spells to cover up the rest. Perhaps a snake or Compsognathus familiar that he tells everyone is attached due to his strong dragon bloodline.

Scarab Sages

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It's a tie between AoW and RotR. Both have great horror moments that really got my characters involved.

Kingmaker is fun, however a little too easy for my tastes. CotCT is fun however has some plot hiccups.

Currently playing in SD and it's pretty fun.

Scarab Sages

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My group played 16 hours across 2 days for a monthly session and would go through 1 book per session (give or take).

So Rise and Curse took us 6 months of these sessions, or 96 hours.

We're now playing 8-10 hour sessions per month, and they are 2/3's done the 4th module of Kingmaker. We should be half way through the 5th after March, and done by May.

Scarab Sages

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Could be that they are busy and haven't had a chance to determine the AP that will be for Gen Con, which is always a busy, crazy time of year.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

If it helps, on January 12th in this thread James Jacobs stated that there would be no subsystems for future APs, which you could infer to mean there are future APs.

Granted, if there are no future APs, there wouldn't be any sub systems either...

Scarab Sages

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I used to play in games where a minimum 3 page backstory was mandatory, and in some cases the DM was amazing enough to build off all of the plot lines inherent in these backstories to make a game that made sense.

It got out of control quite often, with players accomplishing more and more, becoming gods, etc before 1st level.

Then we started on APs, and have found a nice balance with the traits and creating a simple background.

The games actually last longer and the characters are less like to break into soliloquy's concerning their 80 year quest to find the grail and become the deity of Frogs again (or some such nonsense).

Scarab Sages

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I swear I've written a reply 12 times, and deleted it 12 times.

The article itself misses on some points and hits on others.

I think there are some things that the entire geek culture should think about.

Not having every single female character oozing raw sex OR tied to a man and little else would be good for everyone (better writing). I have met women who don't talk in sexual innuendo or require me to be around to have opinions, and that aspect would be nice to see in geek culture.

Granted that would be nice outside of geek culture too, however that's a rant for another day.

Not automatically giving female character cleavage and instead learning some rules of fashion/armor and why those rules exist would also be nice, as it roots the game with some realism.

Yes, realism. I can't believe in a world where I can use magic to do almost anything, have monsters walking around of genius level intellect, and that has a decent amount of egalitarianism, however no woman in the 8000 years of the world didn't think "You know, having no support for my breasts hurts when I run/ride/jump off dragons backs. I should invent something to help this issue."

I can believe in all that and someone figured out some sort of female undergarment. Granted it doesn't come up to me as I'm a male, but it does come up for women. Think if all the games you played had vegan men. You'd think it was ridiculous. Yes, vegan men exist. No, not all of us are vegan.

That being said, I don't think immediately changing everything in drastic fashion and printing female specific products is the answer, as Chimpanzee Psychonaut has written.

Having niche products inherently leads one to sell to the niche group that gives you money, and some majority of our niche group don't see what the fuss is about. As a company in geek culture, you shouldn't have to take a financial risk to put something out that is morally good and no one is going to buy. That won't change anything and you'll just keep seeing the same thing.

The answer also isn't tell anyone to leave if they don't like it and doing things the same way is the answer. That leads to stagnation and the culture doesn't grow and dies out.

The article leaves out a good answer. Am I going to not buy Arkham 3 (for instance) because of this? Or change the way I run games? Probably not.

But am I going to sit back like the article writer and say nothing until my girlfriend leaves? What are you, stupid? We're better than that!

If a woman asks why Wonder Woman wears very little, and someone says "You're dumb because you're female and don't understand, leave", it should be up to us to better explain each side of the debate, and debate it.

We should step in, mock the shizznit out of the person who said that for having little tact and ability to argue, apologize for them, and then argue something along the lines of what I've said above, allowing for education as to why it's the way it is.

I mean, the above image posted that changes the 4e book doesn't seem THAT drastic to me. I'll still think the same way about the rules either way

Scarab Sages

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leo1925 wrote:

From what i have heard legacy of fire is also very PG-13 but it's an AP for 3.5

On the message boards there is a conversion posted for taking Legacy to 3.p, however

Legacy of Fire plot spoiler:
the different evil cultists in it may be a little intense for kids, so you may need to do some rewrites on the second book.
Scarab Sages

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May want to put a NSFW warning on that one.... luckily I'm the only one in my office at the moment...

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