Kung-Fu Joe's page

A monk and a fighter in full plate have the same AC eventually (Fighter in full plate +6, +3 Proficiency, the Monk +6 Dex, +3 Proficiency), but how do Monks keep up with armour potency runes?

Bracers of Armor, I'd think.

Problem with MC Fighter as Paladin is the Dedicaiton does practically nothing.

The Dedication doesn't really help most of the martial classes. A Monk who MC's Fighter isn't likely to wield most of the weapons or any of the armor that the Dedication opens up to him. A Rogue doesn't really gain much from the Dedication, either, except maybe access to the Main-Gauche, which could be interesting. Barbarian's don't benefit much from the Dedication, either.

The Dedication is a feat tax which opens up great martial options for other classes. Arguably, great enough that it's well worth taking for quite a number of build concepts.

EDIT: Honestly, if the Dedication was more useful (say, granting the Attack of Opportunity class feature instead of Fighter Proficiencies) then I think it would be a no-brainer for pretty much EVERY martial class to MC Fighter.

We were looking at ways to increase damage by way of class features, and you simply can't do anything until level 14.

...or you could Multiclass Fighter to pick up Double Slice and other useful martial feats.

Seriously, it's starting to look like Multiclass Fighter is ANYONE'S best option if they want to play a martial style character. Unless they are already playing a Fighter.

Flying Kick (empirically worse than Sudden Charge, by a disgusting margin)

Honestly, multiclassing Fighter seems eminently better than playing within one's class options in a number of cases.

A Monk might want to multiclass Fighter for access to Double Slice and Sudden Charge. With DS on the front-end, FoB gets much better; and as you mentioned, Sudden Charge is just objectively better than Flying Kick.

A Rogue might multiclass Fighter for Double Slice and Crushing Grab. Double Slicing with Sneak Attack is a beautiful thing, and Crushing Grab is just objectively better than Unbalancing Blow or simply relying on Feint. Sudden Charge is an obviously fantastic option for Rogues, as well, considering their Surprise Attack feature.

A Barbarian might Multiclass Fighter for Double Slice, which is objectively better than Swipe.

Et cetera, et cetera...

I think the big question should be whether to boost these similar-but-inferior feats for other classes, or whether to nerf the similar-but-superior feats for Fighters. Otherwise, I'm expecting we're gonna see a looooooot of Fighter-multiclassing in Playtest.

While we are on the subject of Double Slice, what are our thoughts in comparing it to Flurry of Blows?

I haven't actually run the numbers yet, but even considering the better action economy of FoB, it seems like Double Slice is just hands-down better. If a character is using all three actions in a round for straight-damage attacking, then two Strikes at full bonus plus one at -8 just seems a whole lot better than one at full, one at -4, and two at -8.

Certainly, one could argue that Monks aren't supposed to be DPS monsters, but one would think that they should be able to hit reliably, even if their individual attacks don't result in quite as much damage.

Regarding evasion, as I mentioned above, ninjas were already compensated for the lack of evasion with a Ki Pool, which is far superior. You can't go around and use evasion to justify the Ki Pool AND unfettered access to all rogue talents, anymore than I can use a 20 dollar bill to buy 2 things that are $20.

To be fair, you did neglect one advantage which Rogues have that Ninja do not: access to Rogue Archetypes. If you want to play a Cutpurse or a Pirate or an Investigator, you can't do it as a Ninja. Of course, the value of that advantage is quite subjective...

That said, I agree that Ninja just seem naturally better than Rogues, but I doubt they're going to be completely replacing our classic fantasy brethren any time soon.

Sounds interesting! I'll be working up a character, to hopefully be submitted later tonight.

Bandogrim Review:

1. Stats look ok - though when writing them out you didn't account for the 12 you put in Strength, which was then lowered to 10 after racials.

Ack, sorry about that. Added that info, now, to make things easier down the line.

2. Ki pool should be only 9 (1/2 level +Wis +2) as per the Ki Mystic archetype. It replaces the normal pool, rather than stacking with it.

Until you mentioned this, I hadn't even realized there was any controversy with the feature. Since Ki Mystic (Su) does not replace Ki Pool (Su), nor does anything else in the archetype, it naturally seemed to Stack to me. Apparently, opinions are pretty split on the matter, as I found this thread:

Pirate's post at about the middle of the thread sums up my argument, but as you are the DM, I'll (of course) abide by your ruling on the subject. However, if they DON'T stack, I'll likely drop the Ki Mystic archetype, entirely.

3. Which aspect of the Sensei archetype are you most sold on? - I'm assuming the 2nd level swap that lets you have Wis to attack and CMB?

Do you like the bardic ability aspect as well?
I'm also sensing a bit of a conflict with the 6th level swap out as well, as some of the abilities it states you can give to allies you won't have personally due to the Ki Mystic archetype.
Just want to get a sense for which bits of the archetype excite you so that we can either modify it a bit, or potentially provide an alternate means for you to access those abilities (such as through the monastic training).

I love both the Wis basis and the Bardic aspect. Qinggong can help to replace some of the features which the Sensei allows to be transferred, but there are still some good ones, on its own. There's a +4 Dodge Bonus or +20 ft. speed, straight from the Ki Pool feature, for example.

5. For clarity, can you just summarise what each feat / trait / ability offers next to it. Doesn't need to be full text, just a short summary like: Insightful Strike (Ex): add Wis mod instead of Str to attacks and CMB

I'll get to work on this, now.

I've got a Halfling Sensei/Ki Mystic/Qinggong build that I'm about to start playing in PbP. Sensei and Ki Mystic are ridiculously synergistic. Huge amounts of Ki, great Stunning Fists, lovely AC and Saves.

Ha! and that's 3 for 3 of my concepts used by someone in this thread!

I hope that means that my ideas are good...

I'll definitely be lurking now.

Out of curiosity, which of our concepts were you thinking of playing?

EDIT - Nevermind. Completely read through Stunning Fist description for my answer. Tried to delete the post, but the thread remained with 0-posts, so I added this in clarification.

Sorry!

Ryuko here. Got this up. Any comments, thoughts, anything else?

Forgive me if this is unwarranted or unwelcome, but I was looking at Nisk and saw one thing which kinda popped out.

Can someone please explain to me, in detail, how a gunslinger can possibly do 600+ damage in a single round? It seems too much to be believed.

Forewarning: I intend to poke holes in the build if there are any to be found.

At what level? Under what conditions?

In a DPR thread, a few days ago, I posted a level 10 build that was capable of nearly 150 damage in an average round, if he's liberal with his Grit.

@ Joe - easiest for me is if you post up the character details in a spoiler on this thread. Reqs are in the first post, and don't worry about it potentially being your first PbP - I won't hold that against you.

Cool beans!

Bandogrim is a thoughtful fighter-- he's not so quick or so strong as other monks and brawlers, but he loves to outwit his opponents with well-placed strikes and painful blows. He's also good at analyzing the weak points in his allies physical abilities, helping them to improve their own efficiency, both in and out of battle.

Bandogrim Cotton chuckled to himself as the lumbering half-orc stumbled from the ring, still groggy from his brief unconsciousness. "Typical brutish brawler," the little halfling thought to himself. "Speed and strength and flailing limbs will fall prey to a wise plan, every time."

The poor, old herbalist was passed on, now; but Bandogrim Cotton's journey had barely begun. He had come here, to this monastery dedicated to the god of self-perfection, in order to further his own skills and knowledge."

Bandogrim Cotton stands 3'3", and weighs a slight 33 lbs. His wood-brown hair is full of rings and curls, and his bright blue eyes are always friendly. A jovial fellow, he is rarely seen without a warm smile on his face.

I've never played in a PbP, though I've been playing tabletop RPG's for most of my life. Would you like me to post my character breakdown right here, or would you prefer I e-mail it to you?

Thanks!

I have a GREAT concept for an unarmed Halfling Monk that I'd love to try out, if I could!

Cheapy wrote:

There's a feat that requires channel smite, but gives wis to hit with your deity favored weapons. Irori in golarion has unarmed strike as his.

Sense also add wis to hit.

True, but you can't mix MA and sensei.

Why can't you?

MARTIAL ARTIST replaces:
Alignment, Still Mind, Slow Fall, Ki Pool, Purity of Body, Diamond Body, Perfect Self, Wholeness of Body, Timeless Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, Diamond Soul, Quivering Palm, Empty Body

SENSEI replaces:
Skills, Flurry of Blows, Fast Movement, Improved Evasion, Bonus Feats at 2nd, 6th, 12th(?), and 18th

Seems like they mix, to me... Maybe not the most synergistic mix, though. You end up losing 3 Bonus Feats for an ability which you can't use, since you no longer have a Ki Pool.

Not sure if it was mentioned, already, but...

pg 60, under the Sensei's Mystic Wisdom:
"This ability replaces the bonus feats at 6th, 12th, and 18th level."

Monks do not get a bonus feat at 12th level. Should be either 10th or 14th, instead.

Furthermore, in the "special" part of that feat, does "qualify" for Elemental Fist mean that you can use Elemental Fist when in this style? The text seems confusing to me when talking about qualifying and not needing to meet prerequisites. I'm not sure if I still need to take Elemental Fist on top of this one. It seems like I only have to if I want to deal more than one specific kind of elemental damage.

I mentioned this in another thread about Dragon Ferocity, but no one answered me.

I believe the Special text means that, if you have Dragon Ferocity, you may take the Elemental Fist feat even if you do not meet its normal requirements. However, if you take the feat without meeting its normal requirements, you are restricted to a single energy choice.

The Dragon Ferocity feat from Ultimate Combat says, "When you score a critical hit or a successful Stunning Fist attempt against an opponent while using this style, that opponent is also shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + your Strength bonus."

To qualify as a "successful" Stunning Fist attempt, does it suffice to simply Hit with the Stunning Fist, or is it only successful if the target fails his save?

Kung-Fu Joe wrote:

Also, I am assuming the Gunslinger has activated his Boots of Speed

What does his damage look like without Boots of Speed? Those are one of the restricted buffs.

Ack. Beyond that, I completely forgot to actually pay for Boots of Speed, as well. D'oh.

In any event, the corrected numbers are as follows:

Normal DPR: 79.56
Bonus Attack: +26.52
+1 to Damage: +3.315
Up Close & Personal: +9.5625 per Grit Point

DPR w/3 Grit: 108.2475

Corvin Black, the Powerful Pistolero

And now for the math! I included Point-Blank Shot in the calculations, since the Range Increment on the double-barreled pistol is only 20ft. Also, I am assuming the Gunslinger has activated his Boots of Speed, is utilizing Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim, and is firing both barrels each shot. Rapid Reload plus Paper Cartridges makes reloading between shots a free action. I didn't bother calculating how an extra +1 to attack would benefit DPR, since all four attacks are already only missing on Misfires.

Normal DPR: 106.08
+1 Attack: +26.52
+1 Damage: +4.42
Up Close & Personal: +9.5625 per Grit Point

DPR w/4 Grit: 144.33

So, I was looking at the rules for a 5-foot step, and I had a question.

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

The emphasis is mine.

So, can I take a 5-foot step in a round in which I use a move action which does not result in any sort of movement?

For example, could my Gunslinger with Rapid Reload take a 5-foot step away from an adjacent enemy, then reload his pistol as a Move Action, and finally fire the pistol at the enemy? Or does the "any other kind of movement" clause refer to Move Actions, in general?

Goblin.

Between "We Be Goblins!" and Goblins of Golarion, I have fallen in love with the little buggers.

Lightning Reload*: There is a weird build in which you can make deadshot your signature deed and use it in combination with this to constantly make those big attacks mentioned above with one of the stupid guns. If your DM is using the liberal interpretation, then this might be worthwhile...but people should throw bricks at you for doing it. If he doesn't the build doesn't work well. In any case, this is a crappy deed since you should already be reloading as a free action way earlier on.

I must be completely missing something here...

How does one reduce reloading to a free action earlier than Lightning Reload?

Years ago Dragon Magazine had an issue where you could play Dragons as PC's. Leveling would increase your HD, powers, spell-casting, etc...By the end of the 20 level progression the player was a young adult dragon, I believe. I loved it a lot and even got to use it a couple of times. Does Paizo have any intentions to possibly include this idea in the ARG or perhaps in a Campaign Setting book??? (Dragons of Golarion???)

I believe the 3.5 Draconomicon had a similar system for playing true dragons.

Falconer archetype, pg 67:

The Shaken effect bestowed by the Distract trick lacks a duration.

Golden-Esque wrote:

Unseelie wrote:

Tengu Gunslinger, here I come...

That's nothing. If you want the REAL "lulwatz?" I have a player who is running a Drow Mysterious Stranger.

I working on a Goblin Pistolero myself

Me too! What a coincidence!

Lokius wrote:

leo1925 wrote:

Can you provide a link to that? Or anyone else who can find it for that matter.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/paizo/ultimateCombatPDFJustReleased&page=19&source=search#901

Linkified.

But i can't find any of the devs saying anything about it.

I think that Golden-esque hit on the likely Intent of the rules, in that thread; however, I agree with leo1925 in thinking that, by RAW, it would appear EDL starts equal to Ranger-level, but drops to Ranger -3 with Hunter's Bond.

My purpose in posting here in the Errata thread was to show that the wording, as it stands, is very unclear, and will require an FAQ entry (at the least) or some errata.

For the Falconer archetype-- there is no mention of the Effective Druid Level in the Feathered Companion class feature. While one might take this to mean that druid level is equal to ranger level, what happens when the Ranger turns level 4 and acquires Hunter's Bond?

I can see three situations being equally likely.

1) The Ranger's effective druid level remains equal to ranger level, and the bird gets full HP. (which is, I'm sure, the preferable option for those of us desiring to play a Falconer).

2) The Ranger's effective druid level becomes ranger level -3, as per Hunter's Bond. Or, perhaps, the Ranger's EDL is always ranger level -3, with a minimum of 1. At Ranger-level 4, the bird gets full HP for its current hit dice, but does not improve until the Ranger's EDL rises beyond what the bird currently requires. (Seems possible, but having 3 levels of an animal companion which doesn't improve seems a bit bogus).

3) The Ranger's EDL starts equal to Ranger level, but drops when the Ranger gets Hunter's Bond, at which point the bird gets full HP but regresses its BAB, Saves, etc. to the EDL 1 level. (This would be pretty awful.)

Quick question-- after perusing a buddy's copy of the book, I just realized that I don't remember seeing an effective druid level for the Falconer's Feathered Companion feature. It mentioned that the bird is like a druid's companion, but with half hit-points, and it mentioned that at Ranger level 4, Hunter's Bond brings it up to normal HP, but the effective druid level wasn't there, as I recall.

Am I remembering this correctly? What should the effective druid level be for the Feathered Companion?

IMO there is no reason to make new classes to the extent that paizo has gone. Honestly, you want to make a samurai, make a fighter give him a katana and some cool looking eastern armor and take feats and traits that compliment the class or take a rogue and take exotic weapons proficencies and stealthy feats and call him a ninja? If paizo was really interested in allowing people to customize thier characters why not expand the feats, traits, equipment, archetypes ect... to define who thier characters are instead of handing out a book that gives everyone the same cookie cutter experience of being a samurai or a ninja or a gunslinger and limiting the imagination of the player. IMO making more classes doesnt allow your character to become any more unique, all it serves is to water down the class selection and hamper the average player's ability to customize thier character and make them unique.

anyway thats mostly the reason why I stick to the core classes. All I am looking for is something in society play that was there before and is not now (rules for posions in society play).

I don't quite understand your complaint.

Ultimate Combat DOES expand the feats, traits, equipment, and archetypes available-- rather considerably, as I understand it-- as well as adding an entirely new base class, and two new alternate classes. The claim of a "cookie cutter" experience for a Samurai, Ninja, or Gunslinger doesn't hold water, either, as these classes all receive a number of archetypes, as well. Sure, a fighter or cavalier could make for a passable samurai. But how would an archetype for a Samurai have been any better than the alternate class we received?

I really don't understand how having less options would make things more unique.

Falconer: This guy is *awesome*. You can do some really cool things.

Can't believe I'm the only one interested in this since page two...

What kinds of really cool things can be done? I'm literally just about to start playing a Bird-companioned Ranger in a new campaign, and the Falconer could be right up my alley.

Kung-Fu Joe wrote:

How does the Falconer archetype for Rangers look? I'm rolling up a character for my first-ever Pathfinder game, which starts on the 7th, and the animal companion I've been planning on is a bird. I've been toying with the idea of the Beastmaster archetype, but I figured Falconer might be exactly what I need.

The falconer's biggest advantage over the normal ranger is ** spoiler omitted **

Besides that, the falconer is more or less your standard ranger, so you might be better off just going standard considering the advantages are largely m00t at your current level.

Actually, I meant that the game starts on August 7th. Characters will be first level, so having my Animal Companion right away would definitely be useful.

Thanks for the info!

How does the Falconer archetype for Rangers look? I'm rolling up a character for my first-ever Pathfinder game, which starts on the 7th, and the animal companion I've been planning on is a bird. I've been toying with the idea of the Beastmaster archetype, but I figured Falconer might be exactly what I need.