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Almost what the name says. How long can a person be trapped as a statue before negative effects take place. Or is the answer indefinitely?
Say you came across a person that was turned to stone during the time of the Runelords (somehow preserved through all the destruction) would he pop out just fine assuming he passed the saves?


This may have already been talked about somewhere, but how are people able to find tomes for sale?

For instance a +5 Tome of Understanding costs your character 137k on the market, but for your wizard to craft it he must cough up 131,250 and a wish spell, which adds in another 25k in diamond dust. Am I doing this wrong or missing something here?

Who in their right mind would spend 156,250 gold and four months of their life to craft something, just to turn around and sell it for 137k


Just random 2 cents: as far as what's written I believe it pertains more to weapons such as the Elven Curve Blade, Dwarven Long-hammer, etc. Those races could use them, but so could any race that picks up the feat as they don't say it is only for them. (As the tail blade does)

For the purchase side of that, the book was written not only for PFS, so people not playing it could be in a town where a certain race is prevalent could buy the weapon, but if not...couldn't.

IE humans in an elven city could buy an Elven Curve Blade but not a Dwarven Long-hammer. So if your character happened to be in a city with a large Ratfolk presence they could purchase the tail bade but not use it.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:


...Keep in mind unless you're tossing out rules at this point, that Madame Succubus is limited to 50 lbs of stolen payload.

The Succubus was a boss..or mini boss, not quite sure, I didn't see her information. But the party was pretty hurt after the fight.

As far as what she took, The handy haversack he dropped at the beginning of the fight, a long bow, cloak, Amulet, ring, and a Belt.

We played again and found some magic items he could use for the time being, but nothing to replace his bonded object, and no time to bond to a new one even if we did.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:


If I had a player who created a character like this I would have told him from the beginning that I thought his character was going to have problems, and suggest he rebuild it. If the player insisted on playing it I would have given him a final warning, which it sounds like your GM did. After the first time he dropped all his gear at the beginning of a combat I would have given him a second warning. I would have probably used this tactic on him a lot earlier. From the sound of it your characters are pretty high level so this should have happened to him multiple times already. About the only thing your GM did wrong was to wait so long to use this tactic. This should have happened much earlier and probably in a situation where it was more of an inconvenience than a crippling blow.

The player is experienced (or at least I think he is) he helps others with their information. As far as previous encounters, up until recently, nothing has ever run from the party. Don't know if its because of what's written in the book he's running for morale or because our resident druid can do around 16d6 dmg per hit with multiple attacks a round...just takes him three rounds to enter melee.

Could just be that our endgame tactics are falling apart. I mean why on earth did a ranged rogue with low str and con dmg decide that it was a good idea to leave the 3 melee tanks and charge across the room on his own to get his pack back from a demon?

Then the last time we played, my character (a mystic theurge) opened a secret door and walked in on a lich who hid behind a force wall, when I booked it out of the room he dimension doored with a monster he summoned and wound up right in front of me. That with a prismatic ray and a flying table (yes, a flying table) almost took out the party..but then a fumble on his part led to him critting himself in the face with said flying table..we play with the crit/fumble decks


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Well if he was warned that this might happen and was given outs prior, I don't have much sympathy for his situation. Course you said he's taking it well so that's always nice to hear.

Anyway, as for the deal idea, no one ever said he had to make it public to the pair of sticks in the mud. He's got rogue levels! And potentially invis! Nothing stopping him from sneaking off to speak with the ole succ (or vice versa). That said, it's probably a bad idea in general simply due to the likelihood of the party coming to blows over it (unless your group loves this sort of drama in which case offer it to the GM as an idea)

Love is one word...love to hate. Big fights hurt feelings etc etc.

I've been in games (outside of pathfinder) where there are monsters who will automatically destroy your equipment if it's made of certain materials, and one more there was a creature that ate the magic off of items. At least in this case he still has a chance to get his items back should we find the Succubus

Have you ever seen anybody robbed in one of your games?


Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Your player is a rogue/magus and presumably still has access to magic so he's not supremely deadweight assuming he still has his spellbook on him and can prep spells or is specced to be a face. Basically let the player stew for an encounter or two without his gear but do align circumstances to allow him to recover some/all his gear depending on how vindictive you're feeling. This can range from simply hunting down and killing the succubus or maybe have her offer a deal with the player for him to do her dirty work in exchange for his stuff back (jerk option is one item per deed).

His spellbook was kept in the bag he threw to the ground, but we did pick up 6 in a different room, believe the GM will allow him those.

As far as a deal, we've got 2 Paladins in the group who have a 'No deals with devils' mantra, coupled with a 'All demons must die' outlook

Link2000 wrote:

The question that is really important, however, is how okay the PC is with this? I'm sure they are at least concerned. Has the GM already spoken to them about this with reassurances? The GM is supposed to be providing a fun adventure for everyone to experience. This does not sound like a fun adventure to experience, and although misfortune is a part of the game, it should never make a player feel targeted

He seems OK with this. Overall the campaign has had its ups and downs, but for the most part the GM seems to be fair. There was one player that felt targeted, but withdrew his complaint when he realized it was something the book literally said to have happen. On another note, the GM had, on several occasions, warned him of dropping stuff on the ground, and even made it possible for him to purchase a bag of holding. He instead opted for a new longbow to make his new bonded object. (got tired of the short bow)


All right, this is more of a question on how screwed up, or not screwed up other people think this is.

Backstory: We have a rogue/magus who's strength is too low to carry all his stuff (and that's with a handy haversack and a heavy load belt) so every time at the beginning of combat, he drops his backpack to fight. During this Combat a Succubus came out half way through and picked up his back pack. He charges her, gets charmed into stripping naked. After a while of fighting the Succubus hits the point in Morale where she should flee, but the other party member are currently cut off from the two of them. So, she takes this opportunity to grab all the gear he dropped and teleport away with it (we ruled that since it was his last round he could keep his armor)

So now he's stuck, at the beginning portion of a high lvl dungeon (with no way out btw) with out his bonded object, and the Enemy just absconded with a bunch of magic items that are useful to her.

Is this something you would do in your game?
Would you have nabbed the armor too?


>_< Think I was overthinking it, thank you.


Probably a stupid question, but Chosen One archetype grants a Paladin a familiar. No biggy. Problem is that at 11th lvl the Paladin gains Emissary's Smite which means a chosen one's familiar also benefits from the paladin's smite evil ability whenever the chosen one uses smite evil.

So basic questions for this:

Is the smite based all off the Paladin's, or its own? (ie does the little bugger gain its owner's cha to attack)

If it's own, does it count as the Paladins lvl at least? (since it does not have one)


Thank you. I just wanted to make sure before I did it. Would've hated if around end the other party members began to feel under powered. TBH I usually don't allow leadership feats just due to how much they bog down combat, but this current party is pretty small (3 people)


My Self wrote:
Steelfiredragon wrote:
what happens to the rider? the rider has to buy a new mount
Although there's no penalty for getting one slightly used, with a few hundred miles on it.

Looking for a cheap horse, well hop on down to Carl's horse lot. Here we have the finest selections of used horses. Just take a look at this Mustang. Your's for just 40 gold


Not to beat a dead horse (which it probably already is)

long background, read if you want:
In our game one of our players wanted to take the Monstrous cohort feat, until they realized how under powered it is in some instances. They have a descent charisma and an animal companion, which in and of itself doesn't prevent leadership. With that being said it was noted that the monstrous cohort got rid of both for a sub-par cohort that was weaker then the avg cohort.

So the fix that I'm thinking about using would be to mix the monstrous cohort with the rules for monsters as PC, and using the lvl it says to count them as, more as the lvl you can pick them up.

In other words a druid would have to be lvl 8 to pick up a hippogriff, but the hippogriff could be lvl 4

Druid 8 = cohort 5

Hippogriff= cohort 5

Hippogriff is cr 2

so 3 lvls + (1/3*lvl up to 1/2 cr)

So the main question is..does this seem overpowered?

Another question, would instituting it for the rules to pick up cohorts be overpowered?


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thejeff wrote:

You can do that. But regardless of the story attached to it and how cool the GM or even the players think it is, the game mechanics push you to upgrade.

You're not going to keep using that +1 goblin longsword when you can replace it with a +3 Furious longsword. Even if it doesn't have a cool story.
Gear needs to upgrade with the characters. There are multiple ways to do that - the simplest of which is the default: Find or buy better gear.

The game has rules for upgrading magic weapons, if you have the time and money to do so. (Granted the goblin example would've only worked in the first book of that module) In fact most of the pathfinder modules that I've run, specifically tell you to give players time for stuff like that.

But even if you don't have the time/money and have to upgrade, it could still be used for the next magic weapon, armor, or item you find. (so not just limited to melee) A good example was a wizard in another game we played took an ice wand from a named winter witch, and even after it ran out of spells, kept it tied to her belt. This drew ire both from people that didn't know she wasn't a winter witch, and from the enemy that knew she wasn't. Yet at the same time helped in bluff checks to pass as one

Granted all of these are very circumstantial, and you never want to overdo it (lest it lose it's 'magic' or alter the game too much) but it adds flavor to the game and can have a strong impact on how your PCs interact with the world around them. Save from the, detect magic, throw it in the bag, sell, divide, repeat.


Also when he says close to human, does that mean that races such as half elves and halfings are looked down on. If so you might want to invest into the disguise skill and a kit. Usually only one is needed, but if under constant scrutiny...

Another good option for a halfling, in that case, is the Childlike feat.

If stuck as human you could also do the Paladin 2 (Divine Hunter) / X Mesmerist that Red Griffyn suggested as a human, just take focused study alternate racial trait. Could even open up eldritch heritage if your gm allows it.


Save maybe garnering the ire of whatever god the paladin who created scroll worshiped. But as always subject to GM interpretation.


Then I would have to agree with what Nefreet said. There are no ramifications according to pathfinder.

Could even throw in that the dual nature of that staff gives it an ability akin to Retribution


Can't find anything as to what a profane bonus would do, and core as written doesn't even say they don't stack, and has been a debate in multiple forums.

As GM I would call that using one is a slippery slope to changing alignment, and constant use of it would not only negate like sacred bonuses, but could begin to influence other ones as well.

As far as your paladin Paizo has this as one of the core codes of conducts for every paladin:

Quote:
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

I know this part is about associates only, but I've always believed that it could reflect evil items as well. A paladin who willingly uses it would have to have a really good reason, and even then may need to seek atonement during the process.

If the paladin begins overusing it, they would lose their powers immediately, and judging by how they reacted, even shift alignments.

This would also include the paladin allowing a N party member to cast the spell on them.

But I'm not a total jerk to my players. I would give them fair warning. A twinge of something no feeling 'right' about the ability.


Can you put the +1 in an already bumped stat (nvr had a gm give a +1)

If so/if not:

Halfling, Mesmerist (Tiny Tank)

Str 10
Dex 18/16
Con 14/16
Int 10
Wis 07
Cha 16

Feat: Combat Reflexes

Pick up the Trick weak facade and buff yourself

you could aslo do 17 dex and bring wis back to 8


MAD = Multiple Ability Dips

I know this is bad taste, but I would suggest looking up guides online

That being said, form what little I've messed with them, it depends on what you want

Str>CHA>CON for a powerhouse

CHA>STR>CON for a more powers driven character

DEX>CHA>CON for a defensive build (some would switch it to CHA>DEX>CON)


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WormysQueue wrote:

Problem is that all this magical garbage heavily interferes with all kinds of interesting storys that are not the standard D&D/Pathfinder story. I mean, just think about all those stories included in Appendix N which actually translate very badly into an D&D3.5/Pathfinder kind of play.

There are times in Pathfinder that you find weapons with stories. Take the Goblin Hero that wielded the magic longsword he took from a human. He was known by the other goblins for that weapon. Now a PC might look at it and think ooh bonus to attack and damage. But if you turned around and made it so that other goblins from that tribe, or that knew that hero, recognized the sword, the story can suddenly add little bonuses here and there without you having to alter the campaign set in front of you. Just as GM make the occasional goblin shaken for a round or two upon seeing that sword.

"OH NO, that's blah blah blah's sword...you, you actually killed him?"
Then, just to keep things interesting, have another fly into a rage when he sees it
"I know that sword! You thief!"
This could be used in multiple campaigns, the Titanmauler Barbarian that thinks a named Ogres hook is cool and keeps it, the wizard who finds a useful wand that a winter witch wielded..etc...etc


For empire, you can do anything from a Litch ruled island in the middle of nowhere, to an underground city of evil mole people. The orc filled Mountains in the Holds of Belkzen, to cult ruled cities in Nex.

As far as OP goes, that goes more to how you play the monsters. Sometimes a low 1/2 CR monster can be scarier then CR 16.

Perfect Example would be tuckers kobolds. In some stories people would rather lose over half their party jumping down a giant hole then face them.


*10 cents on main question* I've generally seen that lower point buy games (at least in my experience) have actually created more teamwork in the party then higher ones.

I came from older systems, the first one being a game called hackmaster. I know that this is akin to doing the "Back in my day" But that system really did teach us how to work together, as well as that a balanced party needed a fighter (no matter how dumb) as well as the caster, the rogue, and a healer. But I was always stuck playing lower point-buy.

So admittedly, my first time taking the reigns of a gaming group (one that had never gamed before) I did the opposite, and instead made them all close to gods with nobody having less then a 12 in a stat, and most having 2+ 18s. This turned out bad. Not because they were too overpowered for the adventure path, but rather because it became more of a competition for who could do more. the wizard saving her spells by running into melee with a sword. The rogue not even bothering to gain flanking because he didn't need it, and the fighter diplomacizing the big ugly monster. Each character in turn became so focused on making their character a jack-of-all because they did, that they actually fell to lower lvl'ed monsters, due to none taking sides.

This is just one example, but another descent one is the flack character who want to make pure healers get (the heal bot) Yeah, when everybody has high dmg and the goblin needs a 15+ to hit the healer is a little worthless, but that goblin suddenly having a 50% chance to hit your fighter, and an 80-90% chance to hit any of your other players, and suddenly that 'heal-bot' looks a heck of a lot better then the guy that dumped extra healing for a weapon focus.


From what I've found there are actually no rules for how to this. I've personally, always done it basically the way you just described.
You get whatever HP you would gain for lvling up, wizard may get their spell slots, but without certain feat/class abilities can't fill them till they sleep.
Everybody gains use of new feats or skills, & saves/BAB increases
But any tracked abilities that have been used, are still used.

That being said, most games work under the assumption your players will find a place to sleep when they need to. Trying to push all the way through a dungeon will become harder and harder as time goes on, and without certain spells, near impossible in end game dungeons (please don't list 101 exceptions to what I just said)

It might just be good to let them learn from the trouble they are having and hope that it doesn't end in a TPK.

But for further info, there was this thread..might have more recommendations: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ko79?Leveling-MidDungeon


So first time trying to run Rise of the Runelords (I know old game) and have have a player that is really in depth with character creation. Created a character that came from Crying Leaf and had ties to the Shin'Rakorath. She did a ton of studying and found out everything she could about it from whatever sources she could dig up.
I dunno something about a sect of elves trying to keep drow a secret from the rest of the world really spoke to her.
But everything she read said that the elves there were very very secretive, to the point that they turned people away from the land and killed trespassers/wiped memories in the guise of keeping there old capitol pure. So here's the issue:

Spoiler:
One of the people you save in the third book is a human who went to Crying Leaf and lived there. Not only wasn't he killed but he helped save the town twice from a dragon/etercap invasion.

This isn't anywhere in any of the background info for crying leaf, and slightly breaks her backstory for her character, and leaves me with a few questions:

1. How long ago did this happen? (I'm thinking he 10-13 years, but wanted to make sure)

2. Does this mean there is a part of crying leaf that is open to outsiders?

Spoiler:
3. Does he know about Drow or did they wipe his memory? Or was he in a part of town away from the invasions (see previous question)

And a few other ones, but need answers to those first


Tyrant Lizard King wrote:
I would have to say that if the dragon ages up and exceeds his leadership capabilities he would lose it as a cohort. It could very easily remain friendly to the group as an NPC (or as a PC :D) but it would seek its own endeavors now and the player will need to seek out a new cohort.

Sounds about what I thought. Thank you.


One more res for an old post (don't want to start a new one)

We have a GM that likes long games (looooong) and picked up a dragon cohort that was 24 yrs old. Now it's about to turn 26 and we still have a ways to go before the game ends (and lvl 20)
What happens to the dragon? Does it just fly off?
Or do we just close our eyes and pretend it's still 25, never to age again?


All right, I'm hoping this is the right spot for a thread like this. If not, let me know...
I'm starting a game that's going to push two modules together. (Rise of the Runelords (RotR) and Wrath of the Righteous (WotR) I've started this thread mainly to help me keep my thoughts in line, as well as to see if other's have advice on the game.

Now the basic setup is kinda hard, so I hope I can explain it accurately. I had each of the players take a campaign trait from WotR, then told them that the start of this game was going to take place a few years before the time where WotR is supposed to. I then asked them each to think of reasons why they traveled down to Sandpoint

Usually I let players create characters that don't know each other and allow them to get to know each other over the course of the game, but due to all of them basically coming from Mendev (as well as another game where they kept to many secrets from each other eventually leading to a TPK) I told them that they would start this game already knowing each other and having traveled together for some time. This allows them to keep some secrets but hopefully not many.

Now the plan is to go through the RotR campaign normally, while just adding in little things to keep their traits tied in and forshadow the future without convincing them to pack up and head to Kenabres early. (IE the dreams one) This will mean adding in stuff to the game and being slightly liberal with some of the rules, but I hope in the end it doesn't break anything.

After they finish the RotR game, I will create a reason to drag them all back to Kenabres, and launch right into WotR.
Due to this, this game will go past lvl 20. I understand makes some people squeamish, but I don't see it going past lvl 30 so hopefully it won't break the game too much. For right now I'm planning on using Paizo suggested rules for post 20 lvling unless anybody has any better suggestions.

As far as the encounters in WotR go, I don't think I'm going to change any of them too much, other then to raise the lvls of all the demons they face as well as a few of the cultists, others I will leave alone, just so they can really see how much of a difference it is between where they were and where they are, but also because I never liked games where the WORLD lvl'd with you.
For the demons, I'm going to use the excuse of the Worldwound being a home ground advantage that empowers them. Meanwhile fights in other parts of the world have them cut off from this power source (the comparison of fighting a shark on land comes to mind)

There you have it (long post I know) please ask me any questions you can think of, or just shoot if you have advice on something I may have missed.


Sorry, realised the date after I posted. <_<;;

Was doing a late night, post game search to see if Pathfinder had released a thing for how long it took elves to reach certain age categories besides those listed in the APG. Then got annoyed when I saw yet another post referencing lord of the rings.


On another note, pathfinder and 3.5 are not the same either. Hence dnd said several times that even though their elves were more touchy feely then other races when it came to hugs and kisses, they rarely actually slept with anyone.
Meanwhile a majority of elves in pathfinder worship Calistria


Pathfinder and 3.5 are not Lord of the rings. Hence hobbits vs halflings. Outside of that, both pathfinder and 3.5 did their best to let people know that elves _seem_ to be immortal, due to the fact that they live through several generations of humans, and sometimes 2 generations of dwarves.


Gisher wrote:
Veilgn wrote:

i dont get it.

why people favor magic missile instead of mage armor (give AC +4) and vanish (self invis) ?

Because the best way to protect yourself from an enemy or remain undetected by an enemy is to kill that enemy.

though something defeated by a simple shield spell....


klee klee wrote:
why doesn't pathfinder have a search of monsters by there different culture. You can do it by there Cr,terrain but what if I just want to see all the Asian creatures from all the books? is there any set up for this?

Think that would also be to much info. You have creatures that are found in all areas of the world, while others only certain countries, and others still certain cities. Mixed with the fact that Pathfinder is constantly coming out with new content and tries to keep it open for both PFS and personnel play while making new modules that might create a new monster only found in that one place (IE a mad scientist tries to make a new gelatinous cube out of candy and makes the first and last Gummy Monster)

But if you want to you could always create a page specifically for that


Sorry, I missed that thread somehow. Thank you for the help. In that case I'll just have them roll off the human charts. Thanks again.


Java Man wrote:

Your family mrried into a human monarchy? Last survivir of a distant cousin-line to the elven queen? Is there any elven ruler outside of the one queen? If you are a bit more liberal with interpration of the term 'minor prince' you could be connected a different ruler than a king/queen.

If you go Jinin, you could be the Tyrion Lannister of your house, the black sheep woh decided to get out of town rather than deal with all the crap your family gives you.

No rulers that I know of. Elves are isolationists even in the inner sea region, and ones born outside of elven land are know as the Forlorn and usualy either go crazy or full emo. There are some wild ones that live in the Mawangi expanse, but these are more barbaric from what I understand and not how I want to play my character.

the black sheep one sounds pretty good. Would explain why I'm Chaotic while most elves are Lawful in that area, but need to find out what gods they worship.


All right I finally get to play a game after so long of GMing, and our new GM had us all roll backgrounds with him. Somehow I got both lucky and unlucky and rolled up noble background as a minor prince. Problem is I'm also an Elf, and he's trying to go as close to Pathfinder lore as he can.
For Elves though, there is only one queen in the Inner sea, and she currently has no family. So right now I'm open to suggestions.

For more information we are going to be playing Legacy of Fire set in Katapesh (where there are already very few elves)
I'm playing an Elven cleric, though I'm kinda flexible on which god to worship, though for the time being I chose Ketephys.

Some people have already suggested making my character from Jinin in Tian Xia. But I really don't know much about them other then the fact that the Elves that remained behind during Starfall fled there through underground tunnels hundreds of years ago, and have since adopted the Samurai way and become more lawful then their counterparts, though they are still isolationists and only deal with others to trade Mithral, so if I did lean to that it would still bring up other questions like:
What royal families do they have?
What gods to they worship?
and Why the heck is my isolationist Royal butt in Katapesh (Guess that could be easily explained since I would still play Chaotic :) )


All right I finally get to play a game after so long of GMing, and our new GM had us all roll backgrounds with him. Somehow I got both lucky and unlucky and rolled up noble background as a minor prince. Problem is I'm also an Elf, and he's trying to go as close to Pathfinder lore as he can.
For Elves though, there is only one queen in the Inner sea, and she currently has no family. So right now I'm open to suggestions.

For more information we are going to be playing Legacy of Fire set in Katapesh (where there are already very few elves)
I'm playing an Elven cleric, though I'm kinda flexible on which god to worship, though for the time being I chose Ketephys.

Some people have already suggested making my character from Jinin in Tian Xia. But I really don't know much about them other then the fact that the Elves that remained behind during Starfall fled there through underground tunnels hundreds of years ago, and have since adopted the Samurai way and become more lawful then their counterparts, though they are still isolationists and only deal with others to trade Mithral, so if I did lean to that it would still bring up other questions like:
What royal families do they have?
What gods to they worship?
and Why the heck is my isolationist Royal butt in Katapesh (Guess that could be easily explained since I would still play Chaotic :) )


Sorry, I'm coming in late on this but can't find another post about aging and don't want to open a new post for something that may have already been opened.
Aasimar ages were changed a while ago, and I'm not complaining about it. But the starting ages never were from what I see.

so an Aasimar that lives the exact same amount of time as a human starts at 20 years old and adds: +4d6 intuitive, +6d6 self taught, or +8d6 trained

That means that even a sorc has a good chance of being middle aged before they start their first adventure, and wizards and clerics have a chance of joining the game in their venerable years.

This sounds really off to me, and I'm for the most part just letting them role using human starting ages, but due to some rules Nazis and hurt feelings by a player that wanted to be 14 years old I'm trying to find out if this was just a glitch in the book that was meant to be changed as well as the ages.

[On a side note though, while I do like the idea of Aasimars living a long time, I'm actually ok with them not. Somebody complaining that immortal plus mortal shouldn't equal mortal makes no sense to me. The immortal was just a power, and not one that the offspring inherit, hence humans turned gods become immortal. Their lifespans were never increased, but rather stopped all together. In that sense Aasimar's should just have the same lifespan of their mortal bloodline IE: if born elf, elven lifespan, if born human (which most are) human lifespan. Any complaints with that just look at greek mythology where most half gods died in their fifties, with obvious exceptions to Tiresias and Nestor. Though even in that case one was the son of a Human and a Nymph and the other a son of a half god...a half god that aged the same as a human]


Kinda figured it would be like that considering they get common as a base language while goblins and kobolds sound more like Deekan because they don't. Almost how a person who just learns japanese might sound like they were talking in 3rd person all the time just due to how the language is set up and personal miss understanding. But its still funny to hear him talk like that.


Not quite sure where to post this one, so chose discussion. We currently have a player in our group that made a ratfolk, but a weird question arose when he began role playing him, how do ratfolk sound when they talk? Is it something like Deekan from neverwinter nights running around say "No, Deekan not monster, Deekan friend." Or do they talk like average humans like the Badger from the Narnia movie.
I know that players can choose how they have their own characters sound, so he could theoretically be the jarjar bunks of the race, or some wierd savant...up to him really, but without knowing how they sound kinda hard to figure out which it is.


Torbyne wrote:

Effortless Lace would do it

"When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon's magic permanently merges with the weapon, reducing the attack roll penalty incurred by a wielder who is smaller than the weapon's intended wielder by 2 (to a minimum penalty of 0)."

Pretty cheap too, only 2,500GP.

Sorry I didn't see your post. It does sound like a good item and will bring it up to her. Unfortunately it doesn't help with wepon's she pucks up from others


Claxon wrote:
Kennypngn wrote:

Specifically med sized longswords, mainly as a flavor thing for the game we're running. We're mainly up against a lot of med sized creatures, and she has a tendency to lose her wep. (Don't ask) so she likes the idea of just going to one of the recently killed and grabbing theirs so she can keep fighting. That and I think a goblin we faced in another game made her laugh a little too much.

The feat would be more so that she could pick up anybody's longsword and use it.

Yeah, just let her use medium longswords as a two-handed weapon with no penalty. It's definitely not going to break the game.

But, if you're looking for rules legal ways

1) Titan Mauler Barbarian
2) Titan Fighter
3) Effortless lace

Thank you for the help. Will keep this in mind (and never knew about the lace)


Specifically med sized longswords, mainly as a flavor thing for the game we're running. We're mainly up against a lot of med sized creatures, and she has a tendency to lose her wep. (Don't ask) so she likes the idea of just going to one of the recently killed and grabbing theirs so she can keep fighting. That and I think a goblin we faced in another game made her laugh a little too much.

The feat would be more so that she could pick up anybody's longsword and use it.


I don't have a rule to back it, bit I would go partially with the latter. They might feel their time is growing short bit unless they are actively tracking their time wouldn't know when it was about to end. Maybe they could get a feel that the magic was going to wear off, but I'm a pretty messed up gm, and would tell them that in their last round at most.


So, not trying to beat a dead horse, but have a halfling in my game that wants to be able to pick up med. Sized longswords and use them. She was wanting to know if there was any way she could use the exotic wep prof to get rid of the -2 to hit. Nothing else, just the minus two, she would still use it two handed. I don't see this as game breaking, but wanted to see what others thought.


Does a rogue still get their sneak attack with a readied action if they were hidden before the trigger, but not after?

I know it sounds complicated but the question comes from this:

Several PC's were fighting a Ranged monk who kept dodging through some hallways that formed a square. The Rogue, who had been out of sight the entire fight due to the starting set up, snuck into one of the adjoining hallways still out of sight from the enemy and readied an action to shoot if the enemy walked in.

The enemy then proceeded to move into the hallway drawing the attack. The hallway in question is empty so provides no cover or concealment once the person walks into it, and both have obviously already acted in the round.


Due to some circumstances, and another character in the group that's quickly heading towards LE, the person in question is now down to just the five fey. When the character talks to them, which is pretty often, he never really dig for information about then enemy army (if you will), but rather talks to them about themselves, which for the most part I try to have them seldom answer. Though at one point when he captured one who was cursing him out about what their leader would do to him I accidentally let it slip that the leaders would do the same to them.

Surprisingly the character in question doesn't harp on this one point to much other then to say that he wouldn't let that happen to them. Mainly he just acts nice to them, letting them know that the only reason they are captured is because they tried to kill him, and because he worried if he lets them out either the other character in the group would kill them (which the person is adamant about doing)or the ones he's after would kill them. He continues to promise them that once he has taken care of the problem at hand he will let them out, as long as they don't attack him. Until then he promises to make the cage as comfortable as possible.

The person also answers all questions they have for him truthfully, yet in such a way that it either doesn't tell much about himself, or tricks them into revealing information about themselves in such a way that they don't realize it.

According to him, creating a friendship with them is the quickest way to rehabilitation, and unlike shrinks in our world he actually cares about them (these are his words, don't get mad at me) Also having a common enemy forces them to put trust into him, even if just a little, and later down the line will give them a connection. As far as making their cage nicer, he wants to show them (in a way) that he not really the bad guy, and by promising to let them out after the real one is dead, he's given a reason why he's /forced/ to keep them captive now. As far as making the cage nicer, its hard to believe someone who doesn't give first, also by giving them treats based off their attitudes and actions to him, he's hoping that inherent greed will actually alter how they act. Despite the fact that most of what he's giving them is stuff that can be easily obtained if they were free. (I.E silk pillows for beds when one of them woke him up at night during a monster attack, mainly because they were afraid of being killed too.)


The Indescribable wrote:
I'd let him succeed sometimes, fail others, he can't teach any craft he doesn't know. That said, he has to be convincing, not just to the character to you since charm spells are mostly temporary. Just because one gives a rousing speech, doesn't mean you change somebody's alignment.

So far I've been mainly using the for improving relationships. Surprisingly, as far as the charm spells go, he really only uses them to catch the enemies, afterwords he relies on his diplomacy, and only uses his spells to buff that.

Snowblind wrote:
If he is charming fey (which I am assuming the sprites things are) he has to be using charm monster. Since it has a duration of at least 7 days he could potentially keep dozens of creatures charmed before running out of spell slots. If he uses magical lineage+extend spell he could be walking around with over 100 "friends" by level 10 without risking letting the spells wear off.

Not to mention when he gets dominate person

Gilfalas wrote:
And caged creatures are seldom ever converted. Ask most prisoners of war how they view their captors.
This has been my main fall back though his answer goes into debates I really don't want to start on this thread, just suffice it to know, he doesn't treat them as POWs he needs info from, but instead relies on something that's apparently illegal for cops to use called "I'm really the only friend that you have, and everything I am doing is for your good. Just trust me and I'll keep others from hurting/killing you" Made illegal because it results in false confessions. (Google Internalized False Confessions)
Gilfalas wrote:

Enchanter: Grogg I want you to go to town and get me some spell components. Here is a list of what I need and here is some gold.

Grogg the orc Berserker: Right boss! Components comin' up!
-Later there is a knock at the door, it's the town guard-
Town Guard: Open up in the name of the law! We know you sent that orc into town and your wanted for the deaths of the three shopkeepers he killed! He even tried to bribe us with that gold you gave him!

I really like that idea and hope I get the chance to use it.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
A charming person with natural charisma and magic can convince people and monsters to like him, but that doesn't change who they are. Did you ever see Terminator 2? One of the Terminators was ordered to protect and obey John Connor, and when he was threatened by bikers, the Terminator intervened. He pulled out his pistol and was about to put one in the bikers head. "You were going to kill him?" He asked shrilly. "Of course, I'm a terminator." So he made him swear to kill no one. So the next time the terminator went into action, he pulled out his pistol and blew off the security guard's kneecaps. When John challenged him on this, he said, "He'll live."

This is also for Gilfalas, but unfortunately in a world with with definitive and detectable alignments, it becomes a lot harder to sneak those by.

One good note though, now that we're a little farther in the game he has shown that he a least has a bias for those he 'keeps' and those he turns over to the authorities. Though it's hard to tell what his bias is. kinda chaotic with that (which almost makes sense as he's CG) One last thing that pertains tho this that I'm really confused about since I played Wrath of Righteous. (Major spoiler though)

Spoiler:
I've always believed that monsters for the most part, had a core alignment that couldn't be changed. ie sprites are chaotic by nature and can go anywhere along that line (CG, CN, CE) but not the other side. So demons from the plane of Evil with the Evil subtype would be stuck on that axis (LE, NE, CE) but in the campaign a succubus repents becoming CG...slightly alters ones views on how thins like this work. Granted this is an extremely unique case, even according to the creators


I'll try to keep this short, I'm a newbie GM and one of my players has been basically trapping every intelligent enemy we've come up against and is trying to use a mix of diplomacy coupled with his enchanter powers to convert/enlist them. According to him he doesn't really want them to go on adventures with him, it's more for roleplay...and the fact that he wants to start his own town/castle where he would employ every last one of them...most of them he would teach crafts to and have them go out into outside territories to work their craft while spying on the local communities...

Currently he has 5 sprite creatures in separate cages and a bunch of bandits.

So a few questions:

1. Are there any rules for convincing intelligent monsters to change their ways?

2. Can you think of a way that could turn this person off his current quest that wouldn't ruin the game for him?

3. How should I have local authorities react to their local hero holding people captive? (for those of you who want background it's reign of winter)

4. If there is a way to convince/convert them, how helpful should the NPC's be?

5. Do you know how annoying it is having to answer his 101 questions about each NPC's life and past when here is only a small blurp in the book? (not mad at the writers, monsters are supposed to be dealt with and forgotten, think I'm lucky some of them even got names.)


Sorry, I'm a little behind in all this. I've just started running this campaign, and ran into the issue that our main paladin is a Champion of Irori. Before you said that I could just make it hand wraps, but due to another thread ( http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kxzf?Monk-Cestus-questions ) I'm worried about giving the monk an overpowered weapon, especially if he chooses it as his legendary weapon.