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Uzbin Parault

Derek Vande Brake's page

921 posts (961 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 aliases.


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Giving this a bump, since it has been a while. Got into a group but the DM had to move and the rest of the players had trouble coordinating schedules.

I moved a little closer to Central Houston (now inside Beltway 8 but outside the 610 loop), but work in Katy, so location preferences vary between days of the week.

Still not looking for PFS (but thanks for the attempt, Hazzard).

Employed now so gas concerns have eased! :D


I'm running a PF game for some family this Sunday, and I have already been hit with two curve balls, that I could use some help on.

First, my uncle may want to play a dragon. The party is starting at level 2, but it does look like a white or crystal dragon wyrmling might fit the power level, if not the party. (Both are CR 2, which fits the Monsters as PCs rule.) If I do decide to let him play such, and the game goes beyond one session, how do I level him up? He would gain racial hit dice as he ages, which might be an issue in a long running game, as well as class levels as he gains experience.

Second, and probably easier, my aunt has expressed a desire to play a bard, which is simple enough, but wants a lute that is secretly a crossbow. I don't think the rules cover such a thing, but I can see such an item being feasible. How much do you think it should cost? I am estimating about 100gp over the cost of a masterwork light crossbow. Too high? Too low?


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
It's entirely possible for a DM to run his on PC fairly. I've seen it done. I've (hopefully) done it in the past. But for me it's just too much to keep up with, what with everything else going on in a typical game session.

Please feel free to share some of those characters and what was done with them!


Orfamay Quest wrote:

What we might "really" be dealing with is the difference between a background/setting and a plot. I don't think "in the army" is a plot, nor is "amnesia." In the sense that a background is what you ARE and a plot is what you DO..... does this make sense?

Hmm. Fair point. "In the Army" would be just as episodic as "Arena fighters" unless you tied it together with some overarching story. In which case, the army is a functional backdrop for a different plot.

Might be helpful - or maybe overly anal retentive - to make separate lists to establish manner of meeting, setting (including scope), organizational structures, and overall plot (if present).


Backfromthedeadguy wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:

@Backfromthedeadguy - cool, I'll get in touch if we can get some more folks. :)

@Kirth Gersen - yeah, I noticed a few, but they all seemed to be in Central Houston at a minimum, or often north Houston. I'm kinda trying to stay between Gessner and Avenue D (in Katy) East to West, and between Jarvis Rd. (in Cypress) and Beechnut St. North to South. I'm close to 30 miles from Asgard games - not a trip I want to make often until I have a source of gas money, lol.

Okay. But do me a favor and keep it small. I hate large groups. I'm fine with only one or two other people playing.

How do you define large? I prefer four or five players plus a GM. Six players in a stretch, with nobody playing pet-focused builds, but would hate a game with seven. I actually don't enjoy games with only one or two players and the GM.


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Seems like the stories you hear about are of how the GM abuses his power and makes his own PC far superior to the rest of the party. But I also hear disclaimers that not all GMPCs are like this. Thought it might be nice to have a thread to share those stories of GMPCs done right!

I know it can be done, and I *think* I have had a good GMPC or two. If anything, mine tend to be underpowered.

For example, I once was in a 3.5 Eberron game where the GM position was rotated between five players. We all had characters. I (foolishly) tried to play a psion/wizard multiclass (I was going for the prestige class that combines them, forgot what it was called, but my spell/power selection sucked) and consequently my character wasn't holding up their end of things in combat. I used one of my GM sessions to kill my own character off and played something better the next game.

In another game, I ran a GMPC cleric who was focused entirely on support - summoning low-level monsters to help allies flank, buffing other party members, and healing when needed. Not only did she never steal the glory, she was deliberately built to give the glory to other players. (Too well, in fact - one of the players had the audacity to complain that she never did anything useful because she never dealt damage herself. The other players ignored that one.)


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I agree with Claxon, though honestly I might make an argument for the paladin being the better choice even if it is harder. At early levels, the paladin doesn't have too much more than the barbarian, and if she is truly new to the game, the paladin will also give her the experience of learning how the magic system works, at a slow enough pace to ease her into it - she'll start being able to cast spells around the time she's gotten the hang of the mundane stuff, and will still have 3 levels worth of play to get used to that before she has to deal with multiple spell levels.


There's still an Alamo Draft House, on Mason Road. I have had the joy of attending once, since I moved here. :)

Do you remember what that game shop was called?


@Backfromthedeadguy - cool, I'll get in touch if we can get some more folks. :)

@Kirth Gersen - yeah, I noticed a few, but they all seemed to be in Central Houston at a minimum, or often north Houston. I'm kinda trying to stay between Gessner and Avenue D (in Katy) East to West, and between Jarvis Rd. (in Cypress) and Beechnut St. North to South. I'm close to 30 miles from Asgard games - not a trip I want to make often until I have a source of gas money, lol.


Hmm. Then what would you call the more narrow definition I am using? Obviously, it's still a campaign by either definition. Perhaps we should borrow from TV and simply call them episodic vs. serial campaigns?


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Swiping a few idea here...

Most evil phylactery idea I ever had was to have the lich turn a living bloodline into a phylactery. The party would have to track down and kill every descendent of this family (most of whom were innocent) in order to defeat the lich.

Obviously, this can't be done in the standard rules.


I would define a campaign idea as any overall story that serves as a basis for smaller adventures. But some "campaign level" ideas could easily be single adventures (as you mentioned) and as I mentioned in the OP, some "adventure level" ideas could easily be whole campaigns.

I wouldn't consider "Murder, She Wrote" for example to be a campaign, because there is no overall plot... though there easily could be one added in.

Take the Arena idea - if it was simply an excuse for a series of tactical encounters and fights, I probably wouldn't consider it a campaign. But if you add in background characters, intrigue, fishy deals between stable owners, etc. it easily becomes one. Look at Spartacus, after all.

That's not saying a game is "bad" for not having those elements. If the players enjoy a bunch of tactical combats strung together, then you have achieved the "having fun" objective. I simply wouldn't consider it a campaign.


It seems to be a barren waste here, devoid of Pathfinder or even decent gaming shops. There seems to be plenty of options if I want to spend an hour each way driving... but I'm hoping to avoid that, since gas money is scarce right now.

Any players in the Western Houston/Katy area? I can host sometimes (I live near I-10 at Barker-Cypress) but not always. Looking for a weekend game every two or three weeks. I can GM Pathfinder, or play in a wide variety of other games. (My favorites, other than PF, are Hunter: the Vigil, and Scion.)

Looking for a home game, not PFS.


Definitely a good one!


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I was recently reading the Big List of RPG Plots - which seems to cover nearly ever adventure plot - and was thinking it might be nice to have a similar list for campaign ideas. (Some of the adventure ideas from above could serve well as campaign ideas. Some, not so much.)

Please feel free to add to this with your ideas! It should be fairly generic, as with the Big List linked to above. For example, the Big Bad doesn't have to be a dark wizard, they could be a 1920s mob godfather, a modern politician, or an admiral in command of a fleet of starships.

Explorers!
The players are tasked with discovering - or rediscovering - a territory. They have to survive using local resources, before eventually reporting back to whoever sent them.
Common Twists & Themes: The area is already claimed by someone else, either natives or another civilization. There is some previously unknown natural effect in place (wild magic, sensor scrambling) that hinders them unexpectedly. The players aren't the only group exploring it.
Examples: Star Trek, Allan Quatermain, Marco Polo

Manhunt
The players are fugitives on the run! They must evade capture.
Common Twists & Themes: The players are innocent, and must prove it. One of the party is guilty, but the other players don't know. The players are guilty, but don't remember committing the crime. The players are members of some disliked minority group, and have trouble getting help.
Examples: The Fugitive, Osama bin Laden

Look What I Made
The players must build and run an operation (a guild, an empire, a business) successfully. This means defending it from threats and keeping members/customers/citizens/employees happy.
Common Twists & Themes: The players take over the operation, rather than building it, and not everyone is happy about it. Someone else is building a rival operation. Someone in the organization is a spy and they have to figure out who. The operation must be kept secret. The operation scales up over time. The operation is mobile, and the players move around a lot.
Examples: Breaking Bad, the Roman Empire, Apple Computers

In the Army
The players are an elite military group in a war. They are sent on special missions against the enemy, either in defense of their home or to fight a foreign aggressor.
Common Twists & Themes: The players are on the wrong side, but don't realize it. The players are mercenaries, and will work for whichever side pays more. Political infighting muddies the chain of command and may lead to conflicting orders. The war is a covert one and the players can't fight openly. The war is internal, either a civil war or a resistance movement. Players may have loved ones on the opposing side.
Examples: Delta Force, The Expendables, Star Wars, the Crusades

Who Am I?
The players have amnesia, and have to figure out who they used to be and why they lost the memories.
Common Twists & Themes: The players were very different before, and may not like who they were. The amnesia was their own doing. The players don't have amnesia - they were in fact just created as adults for unknown purposes. They have some special ability to give clues to their history.
Examples: Planescape: Torment, John Doe

Treasure Recovery
The players are professional treasure hunters, seeking out lost relics and taking them back.
Common Twists & Themes: Rival groups are in pursuit of the same treasure. The group's patron is actually planning to use the relics to do evil. The party is trying to destroy the item, not recover it.
Examples: Indiana Jones, Tomb Raider


Thank you! Good idea!


After some discussion about how they used to play D&D as teens, I decided to run a Pathfinder game for two of my uncles (and one cousin who has agreed to try it.) My uncles haven't played since the late 70s or early 80s (81 at the latest) and my cousin has never played. But they want to create their own characters on game day.

I am very familiar with the rules, and have run games before. But I'd like some help coming up with a plot and general theme that evokes some of that early classic era (probably involving a dungeon crawl), might allow - but not require - us to expand from a one-shot game to a campaign, and can be run for three players, which will have unknown characters. (For example, I don't want to run something too trap heavy in case nobody plays a character that can deal with them, or have too many magic scrolls as treasure if nobody can use them, or use swarms if nobody can deal area affect damage.) They'll probably be level 2, so they have the option of multiclassing (one uncle remembered a half elf fighter/mage so he might want to remake it) but aren't required to learn a lot of advanced rules; this would mean encounters should be between CR 1 (or less) and CR 4.

It should definitely not be horror-themed - my cousin doesn't like scary stuff. (She won't even watch the Walking Dead.) No, she's not a kid, she's almost 25 now. She liked LotR, so I want to make it more adventure than horror or gore.

I'd really like it to feel somewhat familiar to my uncles, but also highlight how far RPGs have come since their day.


Scavion wrote:
Taow wrote:

A better example would be navigating a dark basement. Leave the lights off and go walk down the stairs and across the floor. Assuming it's furnished (or has lots of boxes to go around), it's possible because you are familiar with the layout, but you still bump into things.

Do it again, but this time flash the lights on for a split second, then do it. You JUST saw where everything is and can navigate better. This is why your mind needs to adjust to NOT seeing the enemy.

If you shut your eyes and swing horizontally, that wizard can duck. Since you're applying measurements and real life logic to a game of magic and a rules sytem, how much of that 4ft sword is in YOUR 5x5 square? Now how much extends into the wizard's? Better go get a reach weapon, nothing medium or smaller can even attack the enemy.

Not a whole lot when you consider arm length. For a 6ft tall person, thats about five feet.

I'm sorry, but a 6ft tall person does not have an arm length of 5 feet. I just had to point that out.


Dr. Guns-For-Hands wrote:

Welp, sounds like you already have plenty of help with the 'player interaction' part of this conversation. Let's talk employment.

Currently you sound like you're either out of work, or working a job that you wish you weren't. Even with advantageous education background, work history, willingness to relocate, connections, etc. job hunting can be a long and unpredictable process. It's easy to focus on the negatives of job hunting, the rejection, the resume rewrites, the constant evaluation, the time devoted.

Think about the positives. Imagine how great it would be to have a job that pays you real money, that challenges you without draining you, that has potential for advancement and raises, that surrounds you with people that are your intellectual equals. You may feel burdened sending off those resumes and interviewing when you don't get the job, but remember, you only have to succeed once. You need to start thinking about your priorities. This is where your focus should be.

Make clear to your friends when you put the game on hiatus that whether or not the blow up happened when it did, this is about taking care of yourself, getting a job, not a retaliation. They are your friends, they will understand. You don't have to quit gaming altogether, gaming is a great release, but it sounds like this game isn't that for you anymore. Be a PC for a while, let someone else run a game. You don't win anything, it's not them versus you. You did some things, they did some things, let it go. You'll feel better, and you'll need to feel good to focus.

See if you can do nine complete job submissions each day. If you use an Objective statement, incorporate the name of the company and their mission statement into every resume. Each resume needs to be different, identify key words from the job listing and respond to them directly in your resume. This will be more work and feel like a dramatic slowdown, but the average job listing on a monster.com style website costs a company in the range of $400 to post, the words they...

They already knew I was looking for work, and that the hiatus was initially about that. I mentioned it even before things blew up at the end of last game session.

Thanks for the job hunting advice. Though I'm finally employed again, I'm not well-employed, so I'll be keeping at it.


I appreciate all the advice, everyone. I have decided I am going to go ahead and end the game, and find another way to spend time with my friends.


Hold Monster on the mounts. :D


Hmm. I used Google translate to take the words "Joyful Freedom" which seems to fit the culture, and turn them into Slovak, which seems to me to fit the Eastern European air gypsies have (without being Cyrillic) and got "radostné sloboda". How does Radoslobodia sound for a country?


I agree - Wisdom would seem the way to go, when dealing with things like impulse control.


mplindustries wrote:
How have you presented yourself? Are you capable of receiving criticism and reacting appropriately? If the whole group is unhappy with your game, your game needs to change, even if you're technically correct.

I like to think I'm a pretty calm and reasonable person, capable of taking criticism. However, I think most people involved in arguments see themselves as more reasonable and the other as less reasonable, so I can't say for sure. Having said that, I'm an INTJ and while the MBTI has it's problems, I think it is fairly descriptive of me. I tend to be dispassionate and logical most of the time, though I have worked to develop my empathy.


mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
A small earth elemental can understand pantomime, allowing an ally of the summoner to get him to drink a potion (actually an infused extract) of Comprehend Languages. However, his Earth Glide doesn't displace any material, so he can't dig a hole underneath a Minor Artifact to drop it into the ground.
Elementals are intelligent, and Earthglide does not create a tunnel (though burrow, does), so this was right. The elemental could have just grabbed and pulled the item down underground with him, though.

In this case, the artifact takes the form of a large basin, several squares in size. A small elemental can't drag it under ground. Also, the floor was stone, so earthglide didn't work anyhow. In the end, they realized why they couldn't do what they wanted, but it did prompt an argument at the time.

mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
You can't create a custom item identical to one in the book, but with race, class, and alignment restrictions, in order to get a discount on creating it.
There's nothing against the rules to prevent them from doing this, but it was a wise decisions anyway, as it is in your rights to veto. The entire magical item creation system is up to GM fiat by RAW, so no issues there. I would do the same.

I actually did find a thread on this where SKR said it was "basically cheating." But even this didn't stop the argument, which was between games at least.

mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
The move action part of a paladin's detect evil requires the normal version to already be on. It's a modifier to the ability, not a separate way of activating it.
This is wrong. It is a separate way of activating it quickly.

There's actually long threads on this in the rules forum. It has never been resolved. The last time I saw it, both sides agreed it could be interpreted either way, so it was up to the GM in the absence of an official ruling.

mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
Based on your location, and the local economy, you can't spend more than X amount on a single piece of equipment. I'll allow one item to exceed it, but it still can't be more than Y. The only other exception is when buying from this specific list of treasure the party has already found. (Replacement character creation, spending gold for initial equipment at higher-than-1st level WBL.)
The rules for higher than first WBL is that you can't spend more than half your total WBL on a single item. Any other restrictions are houserules (probably smart ones, but houserules nonetheless).

Not entirely true - there's also the gp limits of the community itself. Technically, that only applies to magic items, but I'll admit it was a houserule to include expensive nonmagical items as well. (Masterwork mithril/cold iron weapons and armor for example.) Though I did allow these items to be crafted at 1/3 cost with the relevant skills at high enough levels (since you only pay 1/3 for materials when using crafting skills) which still made plenty of them affordable.

mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
The material and technology doesn't exist to allow a flexible straw to reach from your backpack/helmet to your mouth. Anything flexible enough would collapse under the vacuum of sucking, since vulcanized rubber and plastic haven't been invented.
Er, what? Why would this even come up? The only thing I could come up with is answered by, "No, you can't cheat the action economy of drinking a potion by building a long straw."

It was actually beer for a drunken brute barbarian, but yes, it was an attempt to cheat the action economy and get infinite free rage.

mplindustries wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:
A ghoul's paralysis is Ex, not Su.
Unless they had an anti-magic field, I don't see how this is relevant (and if they did have an AMF, how are they at risk to fail against such a low DC anyway?). For what it's worth, I don't see how it could possibly be EX over SU, though. If it was EX, that would imply it was natural, somehow, like a poison or whatever, and there's no indication of that. I'd love to know the relevance of this, though.

A character got a bonus to saves against supernatural abilities, but not extraordinary ones. (I think it's a barbarian rage power, but I'd have to double check.) They rolled right at the point where they'd fail against an Ex, but succeed against an Su. I actually started a rules forum question about it after the game, because I wasn't sure myself. I could see it being either. Someone in that thread did point out that in the 3.5 version, ghoul paralysis is Ex, not Su.


Detect Magic wrote:
(good friends don't necessarily make good players).

Never considered that before, but you are right.

MrSin wrote:
(You were playing with both a summoner and a gunslinger!?)

Luckily, not at the same time. I had an original party that included a summoner. One of my players wanted to change her character, which prompted others to want to change theirs. In the end, 4/5 players decided to change. The summoner was lost and the gunslinger/paladin was one of the new characters. I don't think the gunslinger is much of a problem except for the revolver, but to be fair he's only got one level of it - he's primarily going paladin.

Zouron wrote:

I think you need to sit down and talk to them about it, have a chat and explain your side of it and see what theirs is and if there is anything can be done to salvage the group/game and if not drop the game. A game that is not fun is not worth playing.

Also it isn't really about if you are more right than them it is the perception of evil overlord that needs to be changed and if you do sit down avoid getting too caught up in a minor detail as like a single ruling but keep focusing on the bigger picture "Dictactor GM".

I think part of what's getting to me is that we already did talk about it. Or at least email about it. I thought things were resolved, that they'd talk about their problems between games. Instead, apparently they went from arguing during the game to resenting me without communicating, which is ultimately why I'm at the point I'm at now.

As for the ruling list, it wasn't so much to focus on specific rulings as to give an idea of the quality of them so that if I'm making bad calls, someone can say, "Hey, it might be because you suck as a GM." It would give a reason for them not to trust me.

I appreciate all the advice. I think, ultimately, I'll probably double check with the others on what Bob said after the game, and if true, I probably will end things and find a new way to spend time with my friends.


Trying to make a decision, and since I'm pretty ticked and don't want to make decisions while angry, thought I'd ask some advice before I did something, which also gives me time to cool down.

Since I moved to my current area, I have been running a RotRL game for some friends back where I came from using Roll20. They are all in the same physical location (but using different computers). This is the only game I'm involved in right now, while they had other games going as well.

Rules wrote:
Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.

Emphasis mine.

We are all experienced roleplayers, so of course we hit our fair share of corner cases and rule ambiguities. In general, of course, they always take the interpretation that is most favorable to them. We'd have to keep stopping the game to lawyer out a given interpretation. Now, I'll admit I can be a bit stubborn. However, I also don't hold to the "rule of cool" and I'm disinclined to allow them to easily bypass every single challenge. After they started complaining about how long things were taking, and how things were getting bogged down in rules arguments, I basically instituted the following policies: One, if you don't like the way I run the game, quit, because I'd rather not sacrifice a friendship over a game (it really was getting that bad with arguments); and two, if it comes to it in the game, I'm going to make a judgement call, I have final say as the GM, and we can discuss it between games.

Now, this seemed to work well. We still had rules ambiguity. Sometimes I'd call it in their favor, sometimes not. Sometimes I'd find out I was wrong later and apologize; sometimes I'd find out they were wrong and tell them so as not to establish a rule precedent they kept using. TBH, I might be biased in my memory, but I remember many more times I was right than they were.

The problem is, apparently they were still complaining, just behind my back. Remember where I said they were all in the same location? They were complaining about it during the game, and I didn't know it. Apparently one person (we'll call him Bob) was running interference and convincing the others not to bring up this stuff. Except that, since it never got brought up, it just caused hurt feelings behind the scenes. I think Bob meant well, but now I just had a bunch of players who felt I was playing "Dictator GM". One of them has made comments that we aren't playing Pathfinder, we are playing "Derek's Game". This came to a head last night, when I made a ruling that adversely impacted Bob. He decided he was fed up, and ragequit. We played a little longer, finishing up the current fight, and then ended early.

I'm kind of feeling like their attitude is, "Don't argue during the game, and don't make judgement calls against us without research afterwards," which, really, means they are doing the rules arbitration during the game.

Add to this I found out after we started that Bob actually had a copy of the adventure path I was running (he claims he isn't metagaming) and at least at one point they were double checking monster stats on d20pfsrd.com during the game.

Now, because of my job situation, I was already going to put the game on hiatus - I was spending hours prepping for the game that could have gone to job hunting. But now I'm not even sure I want to pick it back up. Should I just drop it completely?

For the record, here are a few of the judgement calls I have made that prompted argument (or made to avoid argument):

  • Since landing properly is as much a part of the jump as jumping, you'd need Spring Attack to make a melee attack on a target on a platform several feet above your head, since the attack is in the middle of the move action.
  • If there is a shooter almost directly above you, firing down at a prone person, there's no adjacent place you can stand where you'd be in the firing line to provide soft cover. You can drop prone on top of the person (sharing space) but in that case, since the person underneath can't effectively move and avoid attacks, he's now helpless. He can try to avoid you dropping prone on him, as with a grapple.
  • A small earth elemental can understand pantomime, allowing an ally of the summoner to get him to drink a potion (actually an infused extract) of Comprehend Languages. However, his Earth Glide doesn't displace any material, so he can't dig a hole underneath a Minor Artifact to drop it into the ground.
  • Yes, revolvers exist in Golarion. (Later discovered Golarion doesn't use Advanced Firearms rules, but didn't retract it because it would have created major problems.)
  • An ally doesn't provide soft cover to enemies. (This is what they said, I later discovered it was wrong.)
  • You can't create a custom item identical to one in the book, but with race, class, and alignment restrictions, in order to get a discount on creating it.
  • The move action part of a paladin's detect evil requires the normal version to already be on. It's a modifier to the ability, not a separate way of activating it.
  • Yes, an eidolon does take attack penalties when multiattacking with three limbs.
  • Feats/traits that affect spellcasting can't apply to a summoner's spell-like ability. (Later retracted, and I apologized.)
  • Readying an action out of combat is basically making plans to act during the surprise round. If the other side is aware of you, then there is no surprise round and standard initiative applies.
  • Using the downtime rules, you cannot just blow a load of money and have a new structure up and running in a few days or even a week. There's a limit on how much capital is available each day.
  • Based on your location, and the local economy, you can't spend more than X amount on a single piece of equipment. I'll allow one item to exceed it, but it still can't be more than Y. The only other exception is when buying from this specific list of treasure the party has already found. (Replacement character creation, spending gold for initial equipment at higher-than-1st level WBL.)
  • The material and technology doesn't exist to allow a flexible straw to reach from your backpack/helmet to your mouth. Anything flexible enough would collapse under the vacuum of sucking, since vulcanized rubber and plastic haven't been invented.
  • A successful bluff doesn't mean they believe you are their god. It means they believe you *think* you are their god.
  • You cannot, in one round with two move actions, run over to dropped items in two adjacent squares, pick both up, and return to your original position. I'll generously allow you to pick up an item in the middle of a move action so you can retrieve one per round, but it'll still take two rounds.
  • I don't care what your diplomacy check is. The poor, uneducated, superstitious farmer who is nearly dead of ghoul fever cannot be convinced to follow you back to the nest of ghouls who gave him the most terrifying night of his entire existence and left him to die tied up in a field. Sweet reason isn't going to work, here.
  • A ghoul's paralysis is Ex, not Su.
  • "Presenting" a holy symbol means more than just having it out, so you cannot channel energy while paralyzed. Even if you just channeled last turn, since you have been hit (and presumably shifted to try to defend yourself) in the meantime. (This is the one that made Bob ragequit last night.)


Thanks for the input, all!

Necrovox wrote:
Nerve Damage. The claws trigger misfires in nervous system causing the victim to lose control of their bodily functions. That's pretty Ex to me.

Yeah, that's kind of how I saw it - some kind of nerve toxin on their claws. The reason they have it is SU but that doesn't make the condition itself SU. But again, I could see it as SU, too.

Necrovox wrote:
Also, in vague cases like this, GM's word is law.

Not quite, anymore. Rule 0 according to the core book includes, "Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt." (Emphasis mine.) My players tend to think the second part of the sentence means they should have equal say when I'm making a judgement call midgame, and it has led to hurt feelings in the past on both sides. In fact, after one of my players ragequit last night and later told me that my players had been complaining about my rulings behind my back (we play on Roll20 but they are all in the same physical location) I decided not to keep running a game for them anyhow. :( Maybe, anyhow. I don't want to decide while still angry. But that's a topic for the advice forum.


Paralysis is listed as either SU or EX in the universal monster rules. But the way the entry is formatted in monster text blocks doesn't give an indication of which it is.

Tonight I had a party of 5th level characters fighting a bunch of ghouls, and a ghast. Now, the ghoul's disease is clearly marked SU, but the ghast stench is EX. So there's reasonable interpretation for either, in my opinion. But one of my players, who gets a Fort save bonus against SU effects, rolled right on the cusp where it was a fail against EX but a success against SU. I ruled it as EX, reasoning that the elf immunity was because of the elven nature, rather than the ghoul nature (and thus why the more powerful attack of the ghast could bypass it).

Was I wrong?


Bumping as it has been a week.


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I have been looking for a Pathfinder game - most of the Meetup groups I have found tend to run other games, or PFS (which I'm not really interested in). The one game I almost got into fell apart before it began due to inability to coordinate a play time among the already few players.

I'm experienced with the game, and run an online RotRL game every second and fourth Saturday (so I couldn't meet then). But it's getting a little tiring to always run and never play. I'm good with pretty much any day from Friday evening to Sunday afternoons, except as noted the 2nd and 4th Saturdays. Looking for a twice/month regular meetup, maybe weekly depending on the location and day.

I'm 31, I work in insurance, and I'm a grad student at GMU living in Fairfax. I cannot host, for the time being, sadly.


I'm interested. I have been looking for a Pathfinder game - most of the Meetup groups I have found tend to run other games, or PFS (which I'm not really interested in). I'm experienced with the game, and run an online RotRL game every second and fourth Saturday (so I couldn't meet then). But it's getting a little tiring to always run and never play. Sunday afternoons would work for me, or 1st and 3rd Saturdays, or even late on Fridays. W/E. I'm 31, I work in insurance, and I'm a grad student at GMU living in Fairfax. I cannot host, for the time being. I have heard a bit about Kingmaker but not much, so no spoilers. ;)


sk8r_dan_man wrote:
Derek Vande Brake wrote:

Unless I misunderstand, you'll never have anyone get this high!

Think about it - if going from 9 to 10 requires 10 ranks, then really only rogues (since even bards, rangers, and the like are unlikely to have an 18 in Intelligence, though not impossible) are going to be able to save up 10 skill points in a single level. Being able to save skill points only when you can't use them really doesn't help... because there's a near infinite number of professions. The fighter who wanted to get the 10th rank of intimidate? Too bad, he had to take the first ranks of craft: basketweaving and profession: accountant.

Players would gain additional SP each level equal to their new level, so getting the 55 SP necessary to get a skill to 10 wouldn't be as impossible as you seem to think.

By lvl 20 a fighter with 10 intelligence would have 250 SP to spend, or enough to get 4 skills to 10, and have 30 SP left in other skills.

A Rogue with 18 intelligence would have 450 SP by level 20, which is enough to get 8 skills to 10, and have 10 SP left in other skills.

You also misunderstand the purpose of when you can't save skill points.

sk8r dan man wrote:
When leveling up, extra skill points not spent can be saved for the next level if the remaining skill points are too low to buy 1 more rank in the highest skill. Otherwise they must be spent.
If you have your highest skill at rank 6, but you only have 6 or fewer SP left to spend at this level, then you can save those SP for the next level (you don't have to spend them on lower skills). However, if you had 7 or more SP left to spend, then you would have to spend at least some of them until you had fewer than you'd need to buy another rank in your highest skill.

Ah, yep. Sorry - I misread your saving point rules.


Unless I misunderstand, you'll never have anyone get this high!
Think about it - if going from 9 to 10 requires 10 ranks, then really only rogues (since even bards, rangers, and the like are unlikely to have an 18 in Intelligence, though not impossible) are going to be able to save up 10 skill points in a single level. Being able to save skill points only when you can't use them really doesn't help... because there's a near infinite number of professions. The fighter who wanted to get the 10th rank of intimidate? Too bad, he had to take the first ranks of craft: basketweaving and profession: accountant.


Had this idea for a sandbox campaign, but my players didn't think much of it when I brought it up to them. Wanted to see if it was just my group, or did a wider audience think it sucked. ;) Note that this will completely suck unless the party has lots of downtime, so I'd recommend combining it with some way of limiting magic items. Also, the party will be a bit weaker than their ECL indicates.

I have been wondering why adventures adventure in a sandbox game after a certain point. If there is no overall plot, and the players (for the most part) get to choose the pacing, and what adventures they take on, what's the motivation? Around, say, 10th level, your character will already have significant wealth and power. Even in terms of causes, it is probably more efficient for them to retire to a command position and train others to fight the good fight. Unless some major threat pops up that only they can beat (which makes it no longer a sandbox game), they really have no reason to go on adventures.

The idea is basically this - rather than having characters gain a bunch of new abilities all at once when they gain a level, instead their *potential* increases but they have to find someone to train them to reach that potential. The trainer must already have that ability themselves. (In some cases, like HP, BAB, or saves, the trainer need not be of the same class.) Most of this could be handled by the retraining rules (or for some classes, spell research rules) - you are just training the first time, rather than retraining. The only things that don't seem to have training times are BAB and saving throws, but those probably shouldn't be that high anyhow - maybe 3 days.

This is easier at first, but looking for someone who can train you on 20th level abilities would be the subject of quests all on their own - this could mean, for example, that your 16th level character might hit 17th level or even 18th level before finding someone who can teach him 16th level abilities. (For this reason, the GM should probably include trainers in the campaign several levels higher than the characters, so they can be used for multiple level gains.

I feel this addresses the problem I mentioned because the character abilities will always be a bit below their actual level, and the effort of just reaching that potential will further boost their potential. It's like trying to catch up to a runaway horse - you can only do it when it finally chooses to stop. (20th level.)

So what do you think? Good idea, or too much work? Does it adequately address the problem I mentioned?


That's correct, I believe, because essentially they are the same ability.


Quote:
But it would seem strange that a god might give his cleric a power he can't use.

There is precedent. Pharasma gives her followers the Death domain but they can't use any of the undead creating spells.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Does a 1HD (evil) tiefling register to a paladin's detect evil? Detect evil normally doesn't work on low-HD people, unless clerics, antipaladins, undead, and outsiders. Tieflings are outsiders, but they are native outsiders. Does this affect DE?

EDIT: Should be noted, a non-evil tiefling wouldn't ever detect. It comes from their actual alignment, not their heritage. So it seems to me it should work as it does with anybody else.


Lol, yeah, me too.


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I'm just going to leave this link here.


I'm afraid not. In fact, in the three and a half years since I posted this, I have moved out of Louisiana. Sorry.

That said, there is a comic shop in Lake Charles - Paper Heroes. You might ask around there. But most of my friends that play PF now live in Lafayette, and those that live in LC tend to be into World of Darkness LARP now.


How does interrupted rest affect a Mystic Theurge's ability to cast spells in cross class spell slots?

For example, a Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1 can prepare Magic Missile in a 2nd level cleric spell slot, or Bless in a 2nd level wizard spell slot.

Now, suppose the character only manages to get an hour's rest the night before. This affects wizards, but not clerics, in prepping spells the next day. Which does the character lose - the use of wizard spells, or the use of wizard spell slots, or both? In the above example, can the character no longer prepare the Bless, or no longer prepare the Magic Missile, or neither?

Also, if you prepare an orison in a 1st level wizard slot, or a cantrip in a 1st level cleric slot, do you still get unlimited uses per day?


So I'm late to the party, and hope my input is still useful, but...

There are actually TWO issues here, that are related.

The first issue is RD's having the witch make an item she couldn't possibly succeed at. Now, I'm of the school of thought that players should know their own abilities (including cohorts) unless they are fairly new to the game... but I also think at least a warning of, "Are you sure?" is in order when there is no chance of success. That's my verbal cue to tell the player to double-check the rules. However, this all comes down to GM/Group style. So really, that's up to RD and his group.

However, the second issue is the player's behavior. And frankly, it is unacceptable *even if RD is in the wrong on the first issue*. The player is throwing a tantrum! And honestly, I would take the player aside, tell him we are still friends, and I'd still like to hang out with him... but I wouldn't GM for him anymore. He'd be out of the game, because the way he's behaving is simply unacceptable.

Now, RD has chosen to overlook it, and that's his decision. But I'd keep a close eye out, and take a zero-tolerance stance on future outbursts.


I agree with Lemmy, with the added caveat that if you do speak, the potion is wasted. I'd also have some kind of probability that you let out an involuntary pain noise when you get hit - thus wasting it. Like, whatever percentage of your max hp the hit deals, rounded down to the nearest 1%.


Roll20, mostly. Also, the PRD website. I have built a nifty character sheet template in Google Docs, that I copy for each of my players. And of course, Adobe Reader! And Notepad++.


That does seem odd... perhaps they meant you should subtract kingdom size from TRL instead?


Just curious what the default assumption is for most people's games. Do you assume that if something isn't allowed in the rules, the player can't do it? Or do you assume that if something isn't denied in the rules, the player can do it?


Hmm, do slaves count as gear?


While there are no official rules, a few 3rd party products have discussed this. Sadly, they tend to be adult in nature since the rules are a subset of those used to get pregnant, if you catch my meaning.

It can lead to some interesting options for the next generation. One of my favorite characters was the child of two high level adventurers, and he was conceived and carried for a fair time on Mabarr, the plane of Shadow and Negative Energy in the Eberron setting. I made him a shadowcaster, with negative energy affinity, and a severe case of schizoid personality. But that's getting ahead of things.

For the genetics, remember that planetouched don't always have a pure line. They can show up to human parents (or actually, any race). This would also imply that one of the parents had lineage back to the outsider, which further implies planetouched can have nonplanetouched children. So presumably one of two things will happen - either the child will gain the outsider influence, and just be a sylph, regardless of parent races, or they won't gain the outsider influence, in which case it would essentially be the same as a human/half-elf hybrid. I'd say give it 50/50 on whether that makes it a full half-elf, or a human with some lingering elf traits/features.

As for pregnancy... I seem to recall a magic armor ability in those rules based on Bag of Holding enchantments that let the inside of armor hold more than the outside, and a spell that reduced the negative effects. Net result was a pregnant woman who suffered from no debilitating conditions, not even a change in balance from carrying the extra weight up front.


Hat of Disguise comes to mind first.

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