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Clockwork Librarian

AndIMustMask's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,804 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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so, ichigo kurosaki? well, DD and a beefy blast spell

James Jacobs wrote:
Blackvial wrote:
Paizo isn't a big fan of prestige classes
That's a generalization. There are those of us at Paizo who quite like prestige classes.

could've fooled me.

revaar wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Zathyr wrote:

Sweet unholy thread necromancy!

I'm guessing the whole Dimensional Agility line of feats didn't exist yet when this was started.

Fighters however kind of lack the pre-reqs to make that chain of any use to them. Unless they're building their way to Eldritch Knight.
As a straight fighter they lack the pre reqs, but a 3 level dip into Horizon Walker can get you Dimension Door as a spell like ability 3+wismod times a day. Shadow Dancer can also get a Dimension Door like ability at 4th level. The best part is, these classes don't require any spell casting at all to get into!

last i saw they FAQ'd shadow step to not count as DD for the feats--saying it's "like" dimension door, not ACTUALLY dimension door, so it doesnt meet the prereq (its also why teleportation wizards cant take the feats at LEVEL ONE).

guess this applies to snickersnack's post as well, but the guy above me covered that.

it's a real shame too--while i'd hate to give the wizards MORE power, shadowdancer with the dimensional feats is actually GOOD (and can sneak attack--if you have that--reliably for once!)

hmm, for a gamzee army, i'd say something like either constructs (as joex said), but really anything works. being a clown is an appearance and lifestyle, so really ANYTHING can be a clown. slap some makeup and a funny hat on a cacodaemon and you've got a clown minion. imps? clowns. succubi? clowns (hey, some people are into that--i'm not one to judge).

heck, you could have troupes of minions separated by circus acts. succubi contortionists, chain devil tightrope walkers, etc.

If were talking fun crit weapons, how does the fauchard stack up?

Michael Smith 978 wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
@op: i can do without it for the most part, but for an intimidate-centric build with cornugon smash, weapon focus going down to shatter defenses (and later dreadful carnage) is totes worth it if youre going in that direction--though just stick to using cornugon and dreadful carnage--eating your turn (dazzling display) with something you can do for free (cornugon, dreadful) is just stupid.

Gotcha, though I'd still need to take dazzling display as a prereq for shatter defenses.


What's a good Critical Feat Chain?

staggering and stunning critical arent resisted by much, and are crazy powerful, especially in conjuction with shaken/frightened+sickened (from intimidate and a cruel-enchanted weapon). Tack on dazing assault (if possible) for even more debuffing.

And its in the same boat as the shadowdancer (which realky should get it honestly)'s "close, but no cigar" dimdervish ruling. It is a dumb ruling for the shadowdancer, but a gish getting it at level 1 via teleportation wizard (or 3 if they go fighter first) might be a tad cheesy.

@op: i can do without it for the most part, but for an intimidate-centric build with cornugon smash, weapon focus going down to shatter defenses (and later dreadful carnage) is totes worth it if youre going in that direction--though just stick to using cornugon and dreadful carnage--eating your turn (dazzling display) with something you can do for free (cornugon, dreadful) is just stupid.

JohnLocke wrote:

He looks like quite the dandy! Very fancy indeed :-)

This guy has more knives on him than the winter soldier. Yikes!

but does he have more knives than the mythic iconic rogue? (he answer is no: her entire outfit is literally knives and straps for more knives)

i should HOPE this book helps alleviate some of the more lackluster of classes. you know, the Big Three that we're not allowed to talk about.

one cant stab you in the dark, another cant punch you to save his life, and the last is bland and hilariously underskilled.


that, and wordcasting additions (don't just tease it and then act like it never happened, paizo) or variant spellcasting types (an 'MP'/spell points system might be fun)

so are we really just going to sweep fighter/rogue/monk under the rug and just replace them with the newer models instead of fixing them? over page-count? sigh.

Catfolk 'rogue' (archaeologist bard)

catfolk oracle (lore, legalistic) 1 / bard (archaeologist) 19
(oracle 1/bard 19)

str 16, dex 28 (10+2r), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 16 (-2r), cha 26 (5+2r)
dex/dex/dex/dex/wis (level), +6 all (belt/headband), +4 dex/cha, +1 wis (book/wish)

traits: fortune's favored / heirloom weapon (scimitar prof) or dawnflower initiate (wayfinder 1)

revelations: sidestep secret, lore master

rogue talents:
5 - trap spotter
9 - fast stealth
13* - skill mastery (acrobatics, disable device, [face skill], perception, sense motive, stealth)
17* - improved evasion

1 - weapon finesse
3 - dervish dance
5 - lingering performance
7 - extra revelation (lore master)
9 - arcane strike
11 - dimensional agility
13 - dimensional assault
15 - dimensional dervish
17 - dimensional savant
19 - improved critical

0 (infinite)- detect magic, read magic, light, ghost sound, prestidigitation, message
1 (7/day)- unseen servant, cure light wounds, expeditious retreat, feather fall, vanish, silent image
2 (7/day)- blindness/deafness, heroism, invisibility, ???, ???, ???
3 (7/day)- dispel magic, good hope, haste, ???, ???, ???
4 (7/day)- dimension door, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, shadow conjuration, hold monster
5 (6/day)- greater heroism, greater bladed dash, greater dispel magic, shadow evocation, shadowbard
6 (4/day)- eyebite, waves of extacy, ???, ???

0 (infinite)- create water, purify food/drink, detect poison, guidance
1 (5/day)- protection from evil, tap inner beauty

still needs some work, this one. the idea is nice though: everything works off of DEX/CHA (with enough con to survive), makes for a great pokedex.

'Iconic' rogue (*gasp*, an actual rogue!)


Focused Study Human Scout Rogue 17 / Horizon Walker 3
(rog 6 / HW 3 / rog +11)

str 16, dex 32 (7+2r), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 20 (3), cha 20 (5)
+5 dex (level), +6 all (gear), +4 dex, +1 wis (book/wish)

traits: heirloom weapon (scimitar prof) or dawnflower initiate (wayfinder 1) / militia

rogue talents:
2 - Combat Trick (Dervish Dance)
4 - Trap Spotter
6 - Minor Magic (Detect Magic)
11 - Offensive Defense
13* - Feat (Dimensional Savant)
15* - Opportunist
17* - Skill Mastery (acrobatics, disable device, [face skill], perception, sense motive, stealth)
19* - Improved Evasion

1 - Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (stealth)
3 - Endurance
5 - Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 3)
7 - Hellcat Stealth
8 - Skill Focus (perception)
9 - Dimensional Agility
11 - Dimensional Assault
13 - Dimensional Dervish
15 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 9)
16 - Skill Focus (UMD)
17 - Dampen Presence
19 - Arcane Strike

still needs work. may not actually be able to get dervish dance (might have to trade out a level or two for lore warden fighter, but that delays dimensional savant until 15th)

Once i'm actually awake i'll add my various "rogue" builds to the pile.

consider the fauchard as well: 18-20x2 crit with reach is nice.

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8th level early-early entry (20pb):
[any race, chose human] cleric (???, fate inquisition) 1 / wizard (diviner [-ench/illu]) 2 / MT 5

str 8 (-2), dex 14 (5), con 12 (2), int 16 (5+2r), wis 16 (10), cha 10

wizard spells:
1 - 5+1
2 - 4+1
3 - 3+1
4 - 1+1

cleric spells
1 - 4+1
2 - 4+1
3 - 3+1

spell total (counting school spec and domains):
17+14 = 31

i'm sure there's ways to squeeze out more spells.

i meant individually they're now somewhat usable, not together--together'd be weird.

short story: low accuracy and horrible rogue talents (they hit your terrible accuracy even more, are WORSE at something than if you didn't have them (see: rumormonger), or are only usable once per day, making them useless).

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Personal favorite of mine: feather token (anchor). Swing a pillow full of them at someone. When youre about to hit them, say tye command word.

Then tell the party that henceforth all party arguments are to be settled by pillowfight.

ikr? it makes mystic theurge and eldritch knight ACTUALLY WORTH CONSIDERING.

hexcrafter magus and combat oracle make decent graveknights as well.

there's a bard archetype or something that affects undead iirc that might be cool as well.
edit: ah i'm blind, ninja'd by four hours on the bard thing by the above post.

healing witch, ancient lorekeeper oracle (with bonus EH: arcane), and razmiran priest sorcerer, are all decent pseudo-theurges for those who cant deal with a spell level loss.

note: by RAW shield master removes ALL attack penalties when shield bashing. so feel free to power attack and or combat expertise with it--while it's obviously not INTENDED to work that way, they haven't gotten off their bums to change it, so why not take advantage?

you two DO realize this topic is from last year, right

if you're aiming to buff the bosses: look at 4e's enemy type system.

bosses there usually count as multiple characters in terms of HP groupings and initiatives, allowing them to not get swamped by the party via action economy. adding minions can further mitigate that, and what overlord doesnt have a personal guard?

note: level ~9 is when the really killer spells and gribblyness comes into play--consider shoring up your defenses (particularly saves) at or before then.

i see shield feats, but no shield master? with a +1 defending guardian/+5 heavy fortification shield you can bash someone and get an ADDITIONAL +5 to your AC, or +5 to your saves (or divvied up between them). not to mention shield bashing makes for a sound melee option if you're using a reach weapon in the other hand via phalanx soldier's level 3 ability.

also, it looks as if you plan to stick adjacent to an ally--if you're separated, a good number of your feats suddenly become useless. watch out for CC spells or effects that separate you.

for the last level: not a clue. fighter for feats maybe? barbarian for rage? alchemist for mutagens? another thug level for SA and a rogue talent?

pardon the doublepost, but does the cruoromancer's commanding infusion stack with the effect of desecrate to 6xCL (3xCL doubled) undead created per spell? the wording seems a bit iffy to me.

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@angry wiggles: spell perfection doubles the feat bonuses, note that they're only doubled for animate dead calculations.

also, my personal copy of the build has just gotten a teensy bit beefier: swapping over to cleric of urgathoa you can grab magic(arcane) subdomain and the death(undead) subdomain, giving the arcane beacon ability for another +1CL, and letting you heal allies with negative energy by high-fiving them. you can do the same as a separatist of pharasma with death(undead) and trading the second domain for magic(arcane).

for early-access builds, go separatist with magic(arcane) and the fate inquisition--though if you can pop out any old domain for an inquisition, you wouldn't need to go separatist if you worship a deity with the magic domain.

edit: i also noticed that cruoromancer trades out arcane bond, so that frees up the improved familiar feat (and unfortunately those tasty soul gems as well)

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strayshift wrote:

No mention of the M.T. possibly being the ultimate necromancer yet? Why? Because you get two casters worth of undead to create.

built one of those. it's something to behold.

so here, behold:

CN(or CE) Dhampir (ancient-born) cleric (desna [luck, liberation inq.]) 4 / wizard (cruoromancer thassilonian mage (gluttony), necromancy [-abju/ench]) 6 / mystic theurge 10
(clr 1/wiz 5/MT 10/wiz 1/clr 3)

stats (20pb):
str 16 (-2 +2r), dex 16, con 18 (5 -2r), int 30 (10), wis 28 (7 +2r), cha 16
wis/int/int/int/int (level), +6 all (gear), +4 int/wis (book/wish)

traits: signature spell (animate dead) / gifted adept (animate dead)

1 - improved initiative
2 - spell focus (necromancy)*, command undead*
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy)
5 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy)
7 - improved familiar (cacodaemon)
9 - spell specialization (animate dead)
11 - persistent spell
13 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
15 - quickent spell
17 - dazing spell
19 - spell perfection (animate dead)

SUGGESTED SPELLS: animate dead, command undead, (greater) death knell (aura), and desecrate are all important for building your army, but besides that, anything goes--you have more spells than you know what to do with.
0 (infinite), 1st (7+2/day), 2nd (7+2/day), 3rd (6+2/day), 4th (6+2/day), 5th (6+2/day), 6th (6+2/day), 7th (4+2/day), 8th (3+2/day), 9th (2+2/day)
0 (infinite), 1st (6+1/day), 2nd (6+1/day), 3rd (6+1/day), 4th (6+1/day), 5th (6+1/day), 6th (6+1/day), 7th (4+1/day), 8th (3+1/day), 9th (2+1/day)

favored class (wizard)
esoteric training (35 fame [+3 cleric, +1 wizard])
greensting scorpion familiar, later changed to cacodaemon
strand of prayer beads (standard string -healing/smiting beads, 18,000g)
\-->bead of karma: 1/day, +4 CL for 10 minutes (!!!)
moon circlet (CL +1 waxing, +2 full, -1 waning, -2 new)
'reliquary' +5 arrow catch | med fort | spell storing mithral buckler (acts as permanent alter for desecrate)

CL 17/17 wizard/cleric
CL (animate dead) 39-42 (wiz/clr) (17 base, +4 focus, +4 spec, +2 untyped (from traits), +2 tattoo, +2 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1 to +2) wayfinder, +1 greater death knell aura, +4 bead, +2 circlet)
CL 29-32 (control undead) (17 base, +2 focus, +1 tattoo, +1 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1 to +2) wayfinder, +1 death knell, +4 bead, +2 circlet)

animate (wizard) - 200 HD (blood command), 81-90 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
animate (cleric) - 200 HD (blood command), 81-90 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
feat - 6 HD
control undead - [one creature], 32 days/cast (refreshed every full moon)

oddly enough, not an early-entry build (wanted the level 5 cruoromancer ability ASAP)

STILL looking for more ways to beef it up further while keeping it useful for things other than making an army of corpses, but i'm not sure what more i can do at this point. he def. needs scribe scroll, but im unsure how to grant it (since he did the PFS swap for spell focus).

muse: i could drop improved init for spell focus at level 1, keeping the scribe scroll bonus feat from wizard...

editmuse: if only there was a way to grab the spirit vessels oracle revelation--it'd add another +20 HD of undead to the animate buckets.

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i'm looking forward to the ACG myself--let's see how the arcanist's superior casting type works on the 'i can cast everything' MT chassis

as for builds themselves: you can get early entry to MT as early as level 4 (through some domains and inquisitions for the cleric, and with certain school powers for he wizard, or using racial SLAs to get the same thing) since you cant take the class on the level you meet the skill points requirement (afaik).
this lets you go clr 1/wiz 2/MT 10 and just deal with the one-level loss for the wizard (or vice-versa if you prefer cleric), effectively trading one level of spell progression for an entire lineup of divine magics (or arcane if you go more divine-centric)

cleanest MT early-entry i've seen without using racials is cleric (desna [luck domain, fate inquisition]) 1 / wizard (diviner [-enchantment/illusion]) 2 / MT 10 / wizard +4 / cleric +3. switching the wizard and cleric levels if you prefer being cleric-focused, obviously.

using esoteric training (with GM permission) lets you bring both sides up to 17/17, allowing you to get 9th level spells on both sides in the extreme endgame (if you go that far). if esoteric training isn't allowed, trade a cleric level for a wizard level so you hit 17/13, allowing 9th level spells on one side and 7th level spells on the other. again, with wizard/cleric swapped if you prefer cleric instead.

a manga that amounts to One-Piece-But-With-Magic, and remains awesome nonetheless. the main cast includes a variety of dragon-slayer magics--fire dragon, iron dragon, sky dragon, lightning dragon, poison, light, and dark (among others) have also appeared.

basically they're mages with magic that is of the element of their target dragon, but specially designed to bypass that dragons defenses (a fire dragon slayer's flames can burn through a fire dragon's scales, presumably)

i'd suggest reading it--it's great.

made a build a while back for a rogue that flanked with themself via dimensional savant, also fills the usual 'rogue' headcanons floating about of being skillful, charismatic, dex-focused, and disgustingly hard to find.

Human (Focused Study) Rogue (Scout) 6 / horizon walker 3 / Rogue +11

Str 16, Dex 32 (5 +2 racial), Con 20 (5), Int 20 (5), Wis 16, Cha 20 (5)
+5 dex (level), +6 str/dex/con/int/wis/cha (belt/headband), +5 dex (book/wish)

-Militia (+1 to hit while flanking)
-Heirloom Weapon (option 1; scimitar) or Dawnflower Initiate (wayfinder 1)

ROG 1 - Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (Stealth)
ROG 3 - Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 1)
ROG 5 - Endurance
HW 7 - Hellcat Stealth
HW 8 - Skill Focus (Perception)
HW 9 - Dimensional Agility
ROG 11 - Dimensional Assault
ROG 13 - Dimensional Savant
ROG 15 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (shadow 9)
ROG 16 - Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)
ROG 17 - Dampen Presence
ROG 19 - Arcane Strike

talents (total rogue level):
2 (2) - Combat Trick (dervish dance)*
4 (4) - Offensive Defense
6 (6) - Trap Spotter, Minor Magic (Detect Magic)* *
11 (8) - Fast Stealth
13 (10) - Feat (Dimensional Dervish)
15 (12) - Opportunist, Ninja Talent (Pressure Points)**
17 (14) - Skill Mastery (acrobatics, disable device, perception, stealth)
19 (16) - Crippling Strike
* - make sure you’ve got 2 points in perform (dance) to qualify
** - bonus rogue talent from human FCB (remaining 5 spent on hp)

Notable gear to look out for:
-+X heartseeker keen menacing courageous Scimitar (those enchants, in that order)
-headband of ninjutsu
-bane baldric
-ring of swarming stabs
-boots of soft step
-a few oils of negate aroma
-one cracked and one flawed pale green prism ioun stone
-one opalescent white pyramid (attuned to scimitar) ioun stone, slotted in a wayfinder
-the ‘usual' defensive stuff (ring of protection, cloak of resistance, amulet of natural armor, etc.)
-the best armor you can get your grubby little hands on (with enough max dex to not limit it)

Attack bonuses: +40/+35/+30 (BAB (15), dexterity (+11), weapon enhancement (+5), bane baldric (+2), ioun stones (+1/3/1, competence/morale/weapon focus), haste (+2))
While flanking: +45/+40/+35 (flanking (+2), menacing (+2), trait (+1))
After setting up sneak you hit them at flat-footed AC--which is likely, given respectable stealth and HiPS in light and dark as well as from blindsight/sense, tremorsense, and scent, that you can activate as a part of any movement (such as a 5ft. step)
You also get +1d6 damage (precision) from the ring of swarming stabs, +2d6 from the bane baldric, and +5 damage from arcane strike.

without the trait (either of them), you'll have to save 1000g for scimitar proficiency (the ioun stone grants it, slotting that stone in a wayfinder gives you weapon focus in it for free). could trade out the heirloom weapon or dawnflower initiate trait for rich parents to get you on your way for that if our GM doesn't allow the other two to work.

my main problem with it is that you cant enchant the [scaling armor revelation of choice] stuff, and depending on who you ask, cant be used with magic vestment or vestment of the champion either.

if you snag scimitar proficiency from somewhere (the dawnflower initiate trait from wayfinder 1 works nicely, if allowed), you can grab dervish dance at level 2 via combat trick (with 2 ranks in perform dance, obv.)

lets you get your dex-centric stuff without needing to rely on a magic weapon

ah, so an incredibly specific setup(s).

i see they're also missing the circlet of the moon (-2 through +2 CL depending on the phase of the moon), bloatmage adept (+1 CL with soem drawbacks), and slotting an orange prism into a wayfinder not only keeps its base effect, but then applies a 1d4-2 bonus (meaning an overall bonus of -1 through +2 counting the base ioun stone bonus).

neat tricks though.

aasimars and tieflings (statwise) can fill many of the same roles (and therefore classes) personal favorites of mine for tieflings are:

"big hit" builds (fighter or barbarian) - since their oversized limbs ability (from the rolly chart with GM permission) allows them to negate the oversize penalty for a large-sized (impact) bastard sword or a huge-sized sun blade, allowing for a bit more damage and a neat thematic appearance.

"invincible" paladins - with fey foundling and the tiefling FCB, you can self-heal like a champ with lay on hands.

could you point me to that thread (my searching seems to yield nothing) if you've got a link handy? you dont have to go hunting if you dont though, i can keep looking.

personally the best i can squeeze out on a single character is in the mid-thirties (and with lots of effort). it'd take a lot of people even with that CL to hit more than 300.

my usual MT's i focus one class (so oracle 1/sorc 5/MT10 - etc.)
using early entry stuff like aasimar for the arcane side and wood oracle (or similar) for the divine, you can get into MT as early as level 4--since if memory serves you cant take a class the level you meet the skill requirements for it. this lets you go oracle 1/sorc 2 and pretend to be a sorc with one level less progression as you keep picking up the divine magic in exchange from MT as you go. the opposite also applies if you focus on oracle instead.

with esoteric training (if your GM allows it), you can get to 17/17 casting in both sides (meaning 9th level spells for a wiz/clr/MT, or 8th level spells for oracle/sorc/MT) by building sorc 6 and oracle 4 (or vice-versa) and attaching the +3 from esoteric training to oracle and the +1 to sorc.

your main advantage over the more 'traditional' MT is that you're incredibly SAD. another bonus is that your oracle curse advances even if you're not leveling as an oracle (though at half speed), grabbing you the level 5 power at 9th level (1 + (8 / 2)) and so on. with the oracle 4/sorc 6/MT 10 lineup you'll get the full curse progression (albeit very late into the game)

i advised dazzling display as a prereq for shatter defenses, not to actually USE (cornugon and dreadful carnage cover that more than well enough). getting it for free from cav is just a nice way of getting it without more feat-taxing.

shatter defenses is a very nice feat to have for people slinging intimidate around, since it makes their targets much easier to kill

Kazaan wrote:
Symbol of Mirroring references Symbol of Death for how it functions (AoE burst centered on the symbol, must remain near symbol for images to remain active, etc). The images only remain for 1 round/cl after leaving the area anyway so, even with CL of 114 through various benefits (highest cited claim I've seen for CL), you're looking at a max of 11 minutes and change before the image(s) wear off anyway.

sorry to necro the topic, but seriously: how in the world could one manage to jack up their CL that high, and is it across the board or only in a specific situation or on a specific spell (like abusing spell perfection's feat-bonus-doubling ability)?

i'm assuming it's the latter, but in the case of the former i'd be worried about the state of the game itself.

hmm. why not more antipaladin? good BAB/saves, and they get something at 17th iirc.

grab PA/cornugon smash/furious focus/dreadful carnage and intimidating prowess for lots of free intimidate opportunities (shatter defenses is nice too, but that's a lot of feats to grab), tack on ominous+cruel (weapon enhancement to intimidate, whenever you hit a shaken/frightened/etc. enemy they become sickened as well) on your weapon of choice, and make sure you have the unnatural presence trait (that lets you intimidate animals/vermin as normal)

order of the cockatrice cavalier (or samurai for resolve) 2 synergizes with dazzling display (and gives it free), letting you work at shatter defenses with the above rather nicely.

tacking on fear+sickened whenever you smack someone is great, especially since it makes them super-weak to debuffing/SoS/SoL spells due to the save drops the statuses cause (on top of one your auras doing so too iirc).

if you take dual-cursed (whatever+legalistic), you get lots of 'chosen by destiny' perks/rerolls as well as feeling terrible for breaking your promises (as all RPG heroes do).

actually magus/rogue/arcane trickster is a pretty neato build.

oh what WAS that series with the MC who had (turning garbage into) wood powers. something about a tournament to get a wish granted by god himself.

also, even with buffs, your BAB is going to be in the tubes. i wouldn't advise power attack--consider arcane strike instead, perhaps?

the usual RPG protags tend to vary--some are fighters (most FF main characters), some are magi (every star ocean protag, shulk, every golden sun protag), and that one Tales game had a tetori monk, others are rogues or bards (like zidane or vaan--though basch was supposed to be the protag, and he's more fighter- or horseless-cavalier-y) and so on. a few might be destined (bloodline) bloodragers

don't know of many mage-MCs though (log horizon's MC is, but thats an anime), which is a shame.

Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:

I finally found my traits only first level build.

So hah! Both are wrong you take the additional traits feat at first level and both power attack & dodge can kiss it.

actually, there ARE some good feats floating about. i wonder if one could make a build centered around lots of traits to make up for things... also, on your assertion on half orcs being the only ones who dont drop: anyone who can cast hero's defiance will keep on ticking just fine.

anyway! back on topic: on dodge as a feat: i find it usually isnt worth it--why spend a precious feat for +1 AC when you could use skill in UMD for the shield spell (+4 AC), or a quick cast of protection from evil or litany of defense (doubles armor enhancement bonus) and/or vestment of the champion (scaling enhancement to armor or shield) from your own spell list instead (so even if you cant cast them yet, you can activate wands/scrolls/etc. without rolling for UMD).

can't someone crusade for any cause though?

i thought the only (anti)paladin prereq was YOUR alignment, not those you worked for's (in this case being the big man/woman/tentacle monster upstairs)

revaar wrote:
The Solar Mystery from the Harrow handbook can start the path at 5th level, with the Sun Stride revelation. It's too bad that the rest of the mystery doesn't have much melee support.

luminous form seems to work nicely for melee, serpent in the sun helps make you resistant (and later immune) to a lot of things that affect you in combat (there are lots of creatures that inflict diseases or poisons on-hit)--definitely not to priority, but useful to pick up later, starlight agility is three free feats that greatly aid getting around in combat, but beyond those and the aforementioned sunlight stride, yeah, there isn't much else going for it.

also you could play this guy:
“Oh, hello there. I will stay behind, to gaze at the sun. The sun is a wondrous body. Like a magnificent father! If only I could be so grossly incandescent!”

wait stop hold everything: you can't be a paladin of pharasma?

@johhov: i'm stealing the inheritor's light, that is an amazing thing. many thanks!

@OP: certainly not of my creation, but here's a neat idea for you--it's powerful but deceptively simple.

Lay On Hand-iman (credit to damocles guile)


LG tiefling (demon-spawn) paladin (oath of vengeance + oath against fiends) 20

str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)

traits: reactionary / magical knack (paladin)

mercies: fatigue, sickened, dazed, nauseated, staggered

divine bond: +6 bonus, 4/day
example bond (melee or ranged): +4 holy
example bond (armor): +3 medium fortification

LoH: 30 (10 level +8cha +2gear +10 feat)

1 - fey foundling
3 - power attack
5 - deadly aim
7 - extra LoH
9 - extra LoH
11 - channel smite
13 - extra LoH
15 - extra LoH
17 - extra LoH
19 - greater Mercy

LoH can be used for:
swift-action self-healing ~80 damage (11d6 (avg ~38.5) +22 FF +20 FCB)
extra smite evils
immediate dimensional anchor vs. evil outsider
grant allies smite bonus damage
conductive enchant (+10d6 damage)
channel energy (10d6)
channel smite (+10d6 damage)

spells you want are heroic defiance, litany of righteousness, more litany of righteousness, and bloodsworn retribution

alternately, of my own creation there's the paladin of RAGE:



tiefling sacred servant (ragathiel [rage]) paladin 20

str 28 (5+2), dex 18 (2), con 20 (5), int 18 (2) , wis 16 (1-2), cha 28 (5+2)
str/str/cha/cha/wis (level), +6 all (gear), +4 str/cha (book/wish)

traits: magical knack (paladin) / ???

divine bond: +5 LoH/day
LoH: 25/day (w/ bracers of merciful knight)

rage powers:
15 - lesser celestial totem
19 - reckless abandon

1 - Fey Foundling
3 - Power Attack
5 - Channel Smite
7 - Vital Strike
9 - Greater Mercy
11 - Improved Vital Strike
13 - Furious Finish
15 - Devastating Strike
17 - Greater Vital Strike
19 - Ultimate Mercy

example weapon: +5 furious courageous conductive impact greatsword

impact greatsword (3d6) -> GVS (12d6), +7 enhancement, +15 PA, +18 STR, +6 devastating strike, +10d6 conductive (LoH), +10d6 channel smite, +40 smite, +11 destructive smite, +2d6 bane baldric

Pop furious finish to deal 246-301 damage (169 + 22d6 (77 avg, 132 max)) BEFORE BUFFS.
You can then cure your fatigue via swift action LoH (fatigue mercy) on yourself (while healing to boot) the next round.

the whole combo eats 5 LoH uses each (2 conductive, 2 channel smite, 1 to heal fatigue) though, so this is definitely a 'nova' tactic, and only against things like undead or things weak to positive energy.

aside from that you can just heal yourself or a teammate for ~100 (11d6 (avg ~38.5) +20 totem +22 FF +20 FCB) hp.
as a swift action (or an immediate action with heroic defiance if an enemy somehow slogs through all that healing).
every round for 25 rounds straight if need be, making you very tough to kill

the first one is an all-rounder with incredibly flexible in its uses of LoH/Smite/Channel, the latter is a simple 2H melee that hits things hilariously hard on the approach round (vital strike line) and then continues battling as normal from there (full attacks and such). both have hilarious self-healing and out-of-combat healing potential, while still contributing to combat.

of course you can also heal allies no biggie--though for much less (due to their lack of fey foundling/etc. on everyone but the fighter), but generally taking out enemies is preferred to just mitigating their damage.

i completely forgot about domain strike. not sure where i can tack it on other than the level 19 feat without displacing a bunch. i'll add it to the sheet at least.

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