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AndIMustMask's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,598 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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GM Kyle wrote:
The starting point is clearly +2 Strength and +2 Charisma to make those gish Sorcerer Draconic Bloodline Dragon Disciples more feasible.

suddenly paladins and bloodragers have competition with the angelblooded aasimar and the demonspawn tiefling for "best race".


question: how many times has "actually unique and viable rogues/monks" been brought up here?

just curious.


andreww wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
the witch's HD uncapped autokill (sleep+coup de grace) that can be used all day every day (with lots of built-in ways for the class to make that save super easy to fail) disagrees with you.
Which ways would those be? Last time I checked you couldn't apply spell focus to increase the DC or persistent spell to force two saves or spell perfection to double the bonus of spell focus and add a free metamagic feat to it. You might force two saves with a different hex or be using ill omen but not much matches the power of spell perfection. I will take a wizard or sorcerer any day of the week over the witch given their rather sub par spell list.

misfortune hex and/or ill omen spell, slumber hex. watch as they fail at LEAST one of those rolls, then take out your trusty scythe and murder them in their sleep.

depending on the DM, you can also apply the ability focus feat to increase the slumber DC by +2.


notabot wrote:
Vrog Skyreaver wrote:
lantzkev wrote:
arcanist is not the most op by any stretch
QFT. they would have to get behind the alchemist, gunslinger, oracle, certain bards, and witch to truly be OP.

Alchemist, gunslinger, and bards aren't even in reaching distance of wizards, clerics, and druids.

Arcanists are right in the top tiers with witches, wizards, sorcerers, oracles, clerics and druids. Full casters are just better period. Putting a full martial in that list is laughable. Sorry, gunslingers are one trick ponies which are easily countered, and I'm just not even coming close to understanding why you think any bard archetype is OP. Some builds can be really really good, but nothing OP. Witch is one of the weaker full casters, so I assume its because of the hexes, which aren't that big a deal.

the witch's HD uncapped autokill (sleep+coup de grace) that can be used all day every day (with lots of built-in ways for the class to make that save super easy to fail) disagrees with you.


at your thread title: no more so than nyone else who focuses on it--less so than any caster (since they dont need to even make a check for UMD items with spells from their list).

UMD is a helpful skill for everyone really, since it can help round out a class without spells provided you get the items you need.

some rogues are reliant on it as a crutch to function (such as sniping from a wanded tiny hut), but thats because they have a needlessly restrictive core damage feature and that's all i'm going to say on the subject to avoid yet another "rogues-suck-and-they-shouldnt-but-paizo-wont-fix-them-because-preserving-t heir-page-counts-in-older-prints-is-more-important" thread.


built an arcanist wordcaster to test the ropes a bit, loot it for ideas and such, idk.

ARCANIST WORDCASTER

Spoiler:

human arcanist (wordcaster) 20 - this is assuming human will get it's usual FCB of "get an extra spell known/etc."

str 10, dex 20 (+5), con 20 (+5), int 34 (+12), wis 10, cha 24 (+7)
int/int/int/int/int (level), +6 dex/con/int/cha (belt/headband), +5 int, +6 cha (book/wish)

traits
reactionary / gifted adept (undeath)

reservoir
11/40 (at start of day)

exploits
1 - bloodline development (draconic [white or silver]) or school understanding (necromancy)
3 - [see above]
5 - counterspell
7 - spell tinkerer
9 - dimensional slide
11 - counter drain
13 - metamagic knowledge (elemental spell)
15 - metamixing
17 - greater metamagic knowledge (bouncing spell)
19 - item crafting (craft wonderous item)

feats
1 - spell focus (necromancy), improved initiative
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy)
5 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
7 - undead master
9 - bloodmage initiate (necromancy)
11 - dazing spell
13 - elemetal focus (ice)
15 - greater elemental focus (ice)
17 - spell focus (evocation)
19 - greater spell focus (evocation)

spell slots
7 / 7 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 5

words
0 - all 0-level effect/meta/target words
1 - alignment shield (alignment), burning flash (fire), dash (time), fade (concealing), fog bank (weather), force shield (armor)
friendship (command), glide (flight), wrack (pain) | burst (target), line (target) | careful (meta), quiet (meta),
simple (meta)
2 - accellerate (time), disappear (concealing), float (flight), frost fingers (ice), enhance form (body), energy resist (body),
decelerate (time)
3 - undeath (death), servitor III (summoning), torture (pain), complex order (command), paralyze humanoid (binding),
dimension hop (teleportation), lightning blast (electrcity), fire blast (fire), wind wall (wall), ice blast (ice),
translate (language) | barrier (target)
4 - ice wall (ice), acid wave (acid), bestial form (change), servitor IV (summoning), ice blast (ice), unseen shell (concealing)
sound blast (sonic), altered form (change), borrow future (time) | manifestation (meta), mind warp (meta),
5 - servitor V (summoning), stone wall (wall), crush will (command), dimensional jump (teleportation), far casting (language),
| irresistable (meta), penetrating (meta)
6 - servitor VI (summoning), negation (dispelling), resist arcana (dispelling)
7 - servitor VII (summoning), dimensional shift (teleportation), caustic cloud (acid)
8 - servitor VIII (summoning), permanent paralysis (binding), thunder strike (electrcity), winter's wrath (cold)
9 - Servitor IX (summoning), control time (time), dimensional gate (teleportation)


made an MT (with heavy ripoffage from another poster on the forums), take a look, pick apart for ideas and such, etc.

end result is currently a 'blockbuster' casty (though with feat/spell adjustments that can vary wildly) with 9th level spells on both the wizard and cleric sides.

ULTIMYSTIC THEURGE

Spoiler:
CN dual-talent human wizard (diviner [illusion, enchantment]) 4 / cleric (desna [luck, liberation]) 6 / mystic theurge 10
levels go: wiz 3 / clr 3 / MT 10 / wiz 1 / clr 3

stats (20pb):
str 8 (-2pt), dex 16, con 20 (5pt), int 30 (10t +2r), wis 30 (7pt +2r), cha 10
wis/int/wis/int/wis (level), +6 dex/con/int/wis (belt/headband), +4 int/wis (book/wish)

traits: magical knack (cleric) / reactionary

feats:
1 - Scribe Scroll, Improved Initiative
3 - Craft Wonderous Item
5 - Heighten Spell
7 - Extend Spell
9 - Dazing Spell
11 - Elemental Spell (acid)
13 - Spell Mastery (emergency force sphere, invisibility, shrink item, dimension door, protection from energy, teleport, lightning bolt, ennervation)
15 - Spell Penetration
17 - Spell Mastery (time stop, contingency, plane shift, overland flight, mind blank, permanency, greater scrying, wall of stone, wall of iron, maze)
19 - Greater Spell Penetration

spells/day
wizard
7+1/7+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/4+1/3+1/2+1

cleric
6+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/6+1/4+1/3+1/2+1

favored class (cleric)
esoteric training (35 fame [+3 wizard, +1 cleric])
greensting scorpion familiar

CL 17/19 wizard/cleric
total +18 initiative (+3 dex +2 trait +4 feat +4 familiar +4 school +1 stone)

the spell masteries are optional and mostly borne of paranoia--it's if he's captured somehow and needs to get away or kill some dudes without access to his book--just a few essential spells.

haven't taken the time to contemplate an early access variant yet.


but yeah, anyone with dragon style/ferocity can get (the good version of) elemental fist, not just monks of the four winds


Domestichauscat wrote:
Hardly anyone laughs like a villain in real life.

but it's so therapeutic!

even I indulge from time to time.


i find hateable NPCs all share a few common traits:

-they don't respect the party even slightly
-they abuse their positions of power, be it for blatant personal gain or for petty revenge
and most importantly:
-they do not listen to common sense if it clashes with their view of a subject, and will react violently if the subject is pressed

another goodie: no mater who they are, if they steal something from the party--even something minor--your party will be out for BLOOD. they will follow any scrap of a hint as to how they can recover the lost object and get revenge on whoever took it.

i've seen parties chase a pair of boots across the country because someone nicked them from the inn they were staying at.


since you're using this for PFS, im assuming wordcasting is out, but i threw together an arcanist that might be right up your alley--some ideas for you, perhaps?

ARCANIST WORDCASTER
human arcanist (wordcaster) 20

str 10, dex 20 (+5), con 20 (+5), int 34 (+12), wis 10, cha 24 (+7)
int/int/int/int/int (level), +6 dex/con/int/cha (belt/headband), +5 int, +6 cha (book/wish)

traits
reactionary / gifted adept (undeath)

reservoir
11/40 (at start of day)

exploits
1 - bloodline development (draconic [white or silver]) or school understanding (necromancy)
3 - [see above]
5 - counterspell
7 - spell tinkerer
9 - dimensional slide
11 - counter drain
13 - metamagic knowledge (elemental spell)
15 - metamixing
17 - greater metamagic knowledge (bouncing spell)
19 - item crafting (craft wonderous item)

feats
1 - spell focus (necromancy), improved initiative
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy)
5 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
7 - undead master
9 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy)
11 - dazing spell
13 - elemetal focus (ice)
15 - greater elemental focus (ice)
17 - spell focus (evocation)
19 - greater spell focus (evocation)

*SPELL STUFF*

Spoiler:

spell slots
7 / 7 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 5

Effect Word Combinations
Word One Two Three
Level Effect Word Effect Words Effect Words
0 0 — —
1st 1 — —
2nd 2 0/0 —
3rd 3 1/1 or 2/0 0/0/0
4th 4 2/2 or 3/1 1/1/1 or 2/0/0
5th 5 3/3 or 4/2 2/2/2 or 3/1/1
6th 6 4/4 or 5/3 3/3/3 or 4/2/2
7th 7 5/5 or 6/4 4/4/4 or 5/3/3
8th 8 6/6 or 7/5 5/5/5 or 6/4/4
9th 9 7/7 or 8/5 6/6/6 or 7/5/5

words
0 - all 0-level effect/meta/target words
1 - alignment shield (alignment), burning flash (fire), dash (time), fade (concealing), fog bank (weather), force shield (armor)
friendship (command), glide (flight), wrack (pain) | burst (target), line (target) | careful (meta), quiet (meta),
simple (meta)
2 - accellerate (time), disappear (concealing), float (flight), frost fingers (ice), enhance form (body), energy resist (body),
decelerate (time)
3 - undeath (death), servitor III (summoning), torture (pain), complex order (command), paralyze humanoid (binding),
dimension hop (teleportation), lightning blast (electrcity), fire blast (fire), wind wall (wall), ice blast (ice),
translate (language) | barrier (target)
4 - ice wall (ice), acid wave (acid), bestial form (change), servitor IV (summoning), ice blast (ice), unseen shell (concealing)
sound blast (sonic), altered form (change), borrow future (time) | manifestation (meta), mind warp (meta),
5 - servitor V (summoning), stone wall (wall), crush will (command), dimensional jump (teleportation), far casting (language),
| irresistable (meta), penetrating (meta)
6 - servitor VI (summoning), negation (dispelling), resist arcana (dispelling)
7 - servitor VII (summoning), dimensional shift (teleportation), caustic cloud (acid)
8 - servitor VIII (summoning), permanent paralysis (binding), thunder strike (electrcity), winter's wrath (cold)
9 - Servitor IX (summoning), control time (time), dimensional gate (teleportation)

.

while it was mainly built to abuse wordcasting's leniency on spell descriptors for big CL bonuses for tacking on ice to necromancy wordspells or vice-versa, it's main shtick was a combination necromancer/blockbuster "wizard"; making undead which were cold-immune and then AoE everything around them to death.

note: while the undeath wordspell doesn't work with desecrate (boo!), it's a standard action to cast and has no material component cost (yay!). i took undead master to alleviate that issue.

all the servitor wordspells are also standard actions as well (double-yay)


while certainly not the best thing ever, i'm rather content with this rogue:

.

Human (Focused Study) Rogue (Scout) 6 / horizon walker 3 / Rogue +11

Str 10, Dex 16 (5pts +2 racial), Con 14 (5pts), Int 14 (5pts), Wis 10 , Cha 14 (5pts)
+5 dex (level), +6 dex/con/int/cha (belt/headband), +5 dex (book/wish)

traits:
-Militia (+1 to hit while flanking)
-Blade of the Society (+1 damage/dice on SA)

feats:
ROG 1 - Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (Stealth)
ROG 3 - Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 1)
ROG 5 - Endurance
ROG 7 - Hellcat Stealth
HW 8 - Skill Focus (Perception)
HW 9 - Dimensional Agility
ROG 11 - Dimensional Assault
ROG 13 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (shadow 9)
ROG 15 - Dimensional Savant
ROG 16 - Skill Focus (Use Magic Device)
ROG 17 - Dampen Presence
ROG 19 - ???

talents (total rogue level):
2 (2) - Weapon Training (scimitar)
4 (4) - Combat Trick (dervish dance)*
6 (6) - Trap Spotter, Minor Magic (Detect Magic)**
11 (8) - Offensive Defense
13 (10) - Feat (Dimensional Dervish)
15 (12) - Skill Mastery (acrobatics, disable device, perception, stealth), Ninja Talent (Pressure Points)**
17 (14) - Improved Evasion
19 (16) - Crippling Strike
* - make sure you’ve got 2 points in perform (dance) to qualify
** - bonus rogue talent from human FCB (remaining 5 spent on hp)

Notable gear to look out for:
-+X heartseeker menacing courageous keen (in that order) Scimitar*
-headband of ninjutsu
-bane baldric
-ring of swarming stabs
-boots of soft step
-lots of oils of negate aroma and potions of heroism
-one cracked and one flawed pale green prism ioun stone (each)
-one opalescent white pyramid (scimitar) ioun stone, slotted in a wayfinder
-the ‘usual' defensive stuff (ring of protection, cloak of resistance, amulet of natural armor, etc.)
-the best armor you can get your grubby little hands on (with enough max dex to not limit it)

* - once you have the headband, trade out heartseeker for keen

Spoiler:
Attack bonuses: weapon enhancement (+5), bane baldric (+2), and heroism (+2), ioun stones (+1/3/1, competence/morale-with-courageous/weapon focus). more with haste from a party member.
While flanking you get the above along with: +2 (flanking), +2 (menacing), and +1 (trait)
After setting up sneak you hit them at flat-footed AC--which is likely, given respectable stealth and HiPS in light and dark from blindsight/sense, tremorsense, and scent.
You also get +1d6 precision damage from the ring of swarming stabs and +2d6 from the bane baldric

fits the dextrous/cunning rogue ideas, is good at sneaking (even in combat), works the trap route, and eventually gets a 'pounce' (that eventually removes the need for flank)
slow to start, but still decent i think.

IEH (shadow) can be swapped with dimensional savant if you want pounce earlier, but it delays that side of HiPS


one could consider replacing gunslinger 5 with trench fighter 3 if they're looking for dex-to-damage and guns.

also remember that myrmidarch's ranged spellstrike specifices a ranged attack but not what weapon, so guns are A-OK for it.


snobi wrote:
the plan is to capitalize on the Shadow Well ability, beginning at level 9, or hopefully sooner at level 5 with Robes of Arcane Heritage.

afaik the robes don't grant you new powers, it just increases your effective level for powers you already have.


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@OP: they're subpar for combat, their shtick is taken or improved upon by both other classes and its own children (the slayer and investigator) and magical trap removal is now a TRAIT, taking that from them in a most insulting manner.

their main damage mechanic (sneak attack) is hilariously limiting like NO OTHER CLASS' FEATURES, and simply can't be used in most situations without heavy feat taxing (looking at you, shadowstrike feat) to even attempt to use. generally people have to resort to outlandish methods to get even SOME of their sneak attacks off (such as relying on hiding in an invisible tiny hut conjured from a wand to solve all their problems)

they also lack in survivability--both in HP and saves.

.

as for the rogue's spawn:

ninjas serve much the same role as rogues, but combat is much less of a hassle due to vanishing trick and invisible blade--it allows them the opportunity to use their core combat feature without having to jump through flaming hoops made of tigers like the rogue does.

slayer is pretty much completely better in straight combat (full BAB, easier-to-use core combat mechanic), and even the investigator trumps it on the battlefield with to-hit bonuses and static damage bonuses from studied combat (both of which the rogue is BEGGING for), AND "roll lots of dice" sneak attack-esque fun via studied strike.

.

honestly though? rogues can be fixed fairly easily if paizo would simply stop kneecapping the rogue talents (and un-kneecap the older ones). most of them impose penalties on the rogue's already subpar to-hit (only exacerbating his combat uselessness), are useable only once per day making their usefulness absolutely nil, actually make you WORSE at doing things (rumormonger, for example), or any combination of the above.

take out the attack penalties and daily limits and you'll find them at least nearing competent.

give them the same love they're giving the barbarian's rage powers and they'd be golden. though a second good save wouldn't hurt.


beej67 wrote:
Sledge Hammer wrote:

It's no coincidence that synth summoners are banned in PFS. totally broken.

.

it's also no coincidence that crane style was neutered in PFS. totally broken--unless GMs actually you know, take the effort to tweak encounters and work around it.

honestly, there's very little in this game that can't be "dealt with" with a bit of creativity, instead of signing it off as "OP, banned at my table, la la la i cant hear you".


looking at the build, it doesn't seem all that broken--certainly solid, but most definitely not cheesy.

while i personally frown upon the dumps, he's left with a few weaknesses to his "suit up" strategy for stat-coverage:

-he thinks he can keep his suit on all the time. this shouldnt be the case, as most normal folk wont let anything into town that looks like a four-armed betentacled monstrosity. he'd be more likely met with arrows and torches than that.

-if he's donning the suit via ritual, that takes time to set up, so exploit that if you want to challenge him. if he's donning it via the summon eidolon spell, he can be shut down by a dismissal (the ritual one cant be dismissed via spell, but the spell one can). he's susceptible to anything that affects monsters--hold monster and protection from (alignment) are a mean pair.

-his ac has mage armor already set in: mage armor's duration isnt too terribly amazing, and it takes him a round to buff up at the beginning of battle--two if he needs to summon his eidolon via spell. those are rounds he's not contributing to the fight, which you can take advantage of.

-aim for his tough or flat-footed AC to help alleviate the AC issue. have enemies gang up and trip/grapple him to further do so, as well as screwing with any casting he might attempt.

-use multiple opponents; if he has to divide his attention/attack routine to multiple targets, it's lowering his overall DPR (and giving the other players a chance to shine in taking them out)

-swarms and flying enemies challenge pretty much anything, as does enemies that use hit-and-run tactics (fun fact: while vital strike doesnt work with spring attack, it works fine with flyby attack!)

-try giving him a taste of his own medicine, in reverse; send a regular summoner (or even a wizard with a few summon monster spells prepped) after him who will swamp him in minions to wade through while he blasts at the rest of the party

if he's been murdering his way through shattered star, he'll have gained a reputation amongst the usual troublemakers--folks would likely get wise to his tactics and adjust accordingly, attacking him while he's sleeping, or using mor subtle methods like poison or political maneuvering to see him killed or ostracized (he's not a threat to their activities if he's kept out of them altogether).

just some stuff off the top of my head.

- - - - - - - - - -

you also don't have to punish the player if the party is keeping up with it--let them relish their successes!


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All hail PELOR, THE BURNING HATE


theres horseshoes of spider climb already in the game, if memory serves.


oh right, improved EH lets you pick between the 3rd and 9th level abilities. my mistake.

honestly though i'm still kinda liking it--between ioun stones, gear, etc. the overall increase that it can add might be worth the three feats

though it'd definitely be a late-game pickup, since you need a bigger gear budget to support it.


strayshift wrote:
9th level+ Imperious Bloodline Sorcerer w. Fate's Favoured = an extra +1 boost to Competence, Luck and Morale bonuses and so for 4-5 +1 items (throwing resistance and/or enhancement in there as well) you can have some pretty stiff bonuses to saves, A.C., etc. pretty damn cheaply.

that seems like a must-have for bards via eldritch heritage--it even requires skill focus (perform [oratory]), which synergizes with versatile percformance.

you'd only need the first EH feat too, instead of having to buy the whole line.


most PFS characters retire around 12-14th level, if memory serves.


(pardon the late reply) i'll look them over, thanks for the suggestion.


Long story short I've decided to take the spell mastery feat with my high level wizard (divination specialist, illusion/enchantment prohibited).

his int mod is currently +10, so my question for you all is this:

What spells would you suggest my wizard take to prepare for the eventuality that someone will be stealing his spellbook?

criteria
-any spell up to 9th level is fair game

.

current (in progress) list and reasoning:

-time stop (gives time to assess the situation and get out)
-greater teleport (get out of dodge and into the safe house)
-emergency force sphere (quick and easy defense in an emergency)
-overland flight (good for travel)
-mind blank (good for traveling unnoticed)
-plane shift (in case of being stranded on another plane)
-protection from elements (in case of being stranded on another plane)
-contingency (contingency)
-
-
-
-


dance of blades/armor mastery

mainly dance of blades, since otherwise you'd be running around at 20ft/round with lame curse (since breaker barb trades out fast movement)


iirc you can grab an inquisition instead of a domain on anyone, not just an inquisitor (its just that most inquisitions are worse than a domain, so most folks don't)


catfolk might be worth considering for that tasty bardic knowledge FCB, but half-elf or half-orc work nicely as well.

you couls honestly just grab lingering performance to make your limited rounds less of a juggling act.

.

alternatively, you could look at the dawnflower dervish or dervish dancer archetypes, since using the aasimar (preferably azata-blooded) FCB to speed things along you can hit a whopping +8 to attack/damage with inspire courage by level 12(!!!), and the other performances also become that much better.

you have to use the FCB for 10 levels to get it by 12, since your effective bard level would count as follows:

1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 | 9/10.5/12/13.5/15 | 16*/17*

* - the last two levels would be without the FCB since any further would be a waste--the ability doesn't scale past 17th level, saving you two FCB for other performances/hp/skills.


clockwork prosthetic (from Magical Marketplace). 6400g for a new limb bundled with frankly amazing bonuses to lifting capacity and against maneuvers.


alright, a tentative build idea:

Spoiler:
CG half-orc barbarian (breaker) 10 / oracle (metal, dual-cursed [lame*, wrecker]) 1 / rage prophet 9
progression: barbarian 1 / oracle 1 / barbarian 9 / rage prophet 9
*gatecrasher alt. racial trait

str 32 (7pt +2r), dex 20 (5pt), con 20 (5pt), int 16, wis 14 (-2pt), cha 24 (5pt)
str/str/str/str/str (level), +6 all (belt/headband), +4 str/cha (wish/book)

.

traits: magical knack (oracle), destructive blows

rage powers: superstition +9 (+6 ECL 19 +3 FCB), witch hunter +5, spell sunder, strength surge (ECL 19), body bludgeon, lesser beast totem, beast totem, greater beast totem, auspicious mark

revelations: Dance of Blades, Armor Mastery

rage prophet mysteries: unseen servant, see invisibility, spiritual weapon, speak with dead

feats
1 - Power Attack
3 - Improved Sunder
5 - Destroyer's Blessing
7 - Extra Rage Power (lesser beast totem)
9 - Extra Rage Power (beast totem (+5 nat armor))
11 - Extra Rage Power (moment of clarity)
13 - Extra Rage Power (greater beast totem)
15 - Extra Revelation (armor mastery)
17 - Extra Rage Power (auspicious mark)
19 - Raging Vitality (or) Greater Sunder

first FCB into a skill point, the rest into the human FCB--which half-orc should qualify for via the human racial subtype (source).

.

for gear: grab a +5 courageous furious (weapon of choice), mithral breastplate, and standard defensive items and go to town. make whole and mend make maintenance less of a hassle.

the courageous enchant on a +7 weapon (while raging) will give every morale bonus you're under a +3 bonus (rage, superstitious, cracked pale green prism ioun stone, moment of greatness, etc.)

end result:
-BAB 16 (dont let the lowish number fool you, you'll still be respectable-if-not-great)
-12/6/10 saves (before stats or superstitious)

-hands-free rage cycling at level 9
-effective barbarian level 19 for strength surge/superstitious/witch hunter/beast totem (nat armor bonus)
-pounce, spell sunder/strength surge, body bludgeon (because why not?)
-3rd level cleric/oracle spells (CL 19 while using moment of clarity, with con mod to spell DCs)
-all lame curse abilities (effective level 15)

-free guidance (as the spell, once per rage), increases to +9 vs fey/incorporeal/undead/outsiders (rev up that ragecycle)
-(immediate action) spend rage round to add ghost touch to weapons/armor
+6 to sunder attempts (+2 racial +2 trait +2 imp sunder) before strength surge

main hiccup:
buffing yourself is a righteous pain in the tuchus, since you still have to roll against your saves (can't drop it even for ally sells, and you are your own ally)

you're also going to have to ration your rage rounds, since you're running on a 10th-level barb's supply (though eating spell slots can mitigate this)

- - - - - - - - - -

I could actually see this seeing some use in wrath of the righteous, since it is presumably crawling with outsiders


wait. wait wait wait.

question: if you have the body bludgeon rage power, you can treat someone as a two-handed improvised weapon.

all your weapons (including this living person in your grip) automatically gain the broken condition. weapons with the broken condition can be destroyed if you roll bad enough or you use the feat to automatically destroy a broken weapon to confirm a critical hit with them.

what happens to the person you're holding in this case? are they destroyed?


theres feats to trash a broken weapon to auto-confirm a crit and such, might be useful?


conflictensues wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:
wands have a hard cap of level 4 spells (or effecive level via metamagics), iirc.

ooh- that's good to know; the table showed up to lv 7 so i assumed...

Anyhow, the wizard cleric build does bring up summoning and a few other things. Summoned creatures of too low level will be easily banished; unable to make a will save sufficient.

The 'Esoteric Training' is easily the most overpowered thing you mentioned. +3 caster levels and +1 caster level? that puts a character at an effective lv 14 caster and lv 20 caster WITH Mystic Theurge extras. I, unfortunately cannot find this on the Paizo Website except in the forums. It seems to come from 'Inner Sea Magic' which describes it as a follow up to eclectic training; still worth- but is it Pathfinder legal if not expressly using said 'setting?' I am unfamiliar with how these things rule; btw, not sure what 'fame' is either but there is a 35 fame requ- though from what I've read I'd likely attain it far before level 20.

As for the feats, those look good; but craft and scribe are unnecessary as money is not an issue.

Some neat items/spells I found also include
ring of 3 wishes
strand of prayer beads
paragon surge (spell which grants meta magic)

esoteric not only increases CL, but also increases spell slots/spells known. to get it, you join a mage's guild (the exacts are in the inner sea magic book iirc) and rack in that fame. you've gotta pay for membership annually, and gaining fame can be a pain sometimes, so it's definitely a build with ultra-late game in mind.

the end result would be ECL 17 (4+3+10) wizard and ECL 17 (6+1+10) cleric allowing 9th level spells for both divine and arcane sides.
magical knack bumps that to CL 17/19, and the orange prism ioun stone bumps that to 18/20 (+1d4-2 CL whenever you cast a spell) before taking feats like spell focus into account.

.
also, the feats could be largely scrapped and redone with whatever you want (if you dont want to focus on summoning, for example). between the two sides you could make an awesome necromancer (after changing your prohibited schools, of course), for example.


lack of replies does not mean an option doesnt exist to make it work. have you tried building one yourself?


conflictensues wrote:

That looks great; one could even use wands [which go up to caster level 7] to enhance his attacks- if you focus the magus above the cleric; but then access to level 9 spells would be null.

The other way is better, I think, though. You get access to level 9 cleric spells and some nice tricks from the Magus, including 2 of his lv 4 spells; arcana theft is useful verses magic users while black tentacles is great for anyone who can't make a low save.

It still won't be up to OP standards though; we want broken here. Item suggestions are great too.

wands have a hard cap of level 4 spells (or effecive level via metamagics), iirc.


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the highest powered MT i've seen (credit goes to ParagonDireRaccoon) around here was:

Spoiler:
CG dual-talent human wizard (diviner [illusion/necromancy]) 4 / cleric (desna [luck, liberation]) 6 / mystic theurge 10
levels go: wiz 3 / clr 3 / MT 10 / wiz 1 / clr 3

stats (20pb):
str 8 (-2pt), dex 16, con 20 (5pt), int 30 (10t +2r), wis 30 (7pt +2r), cha 10
wis/int/wis/int/wis (level), +6 dex/con/int/wis (belt/headband), +4 int/wis (book/wish)

favored class (cleric)
esoteric training (35 fame [+3 wizard, +1 cleric])
greensting scorpion familiar

traits:
magical knack (cleric)
reactionary

*suggested* feats:
1 Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus(Conjuration)
3 Augment Summoning
5 Sacred Summons
7 Extend Spell
9 Craft Wondrous Items
11 Superior Summoning
13 Theurgy
15 Spell Penetration
17 Craft Wand/Craft Staff/Improved Initiative (whichever)
19 Greater Spell Penetration

focus on utility early game, and summoning and buffing your summons. item crafting saves you some cash, and watch out for str debuffs from enemy spells/poison/disease/etc.

for endgame gear i'd suggest:
+5 silken ceremonial armor/haramaki/armored kilt (your choice)
+5 mithral buckler
+6 int/wis headband
+6 dex/con belt
ebon wayfinder
orange prism ioun stone (slotted in ebon wayfinder)
vibrant purple prism (slotted in ebon wayfinder)
cracked dust rose prism

your initiative will be sitting at +14 (+3 dex +4 wizard +2 trait +4 familiar +1 competence), +18 if you grab improved initiative.


pardon the double-post, but now this has me thinking of a titan mauler barbarian 2 / two-weapon fighter 18 that dual-wields greatswords.


unfortunately titan mauler only reduces the penalties for inappropriately sized weapons, not increases your effective size/handedness, meaning the largest weapon you could wield would be a large-sized "bastard" or one-handed weapon (our iconic barbarian uses such a weapon), or huge-sized light weapon (a huge Sun Blade would be the best here if memory serves).

double unfortunately, jotungrip does exactly nothing to help on this front--it only lets you wield size-appropriate two-handed weapons in one hand (so you could feasibly dual-wield greatswords if you wanted, huge TWF penalties and all).

"biggest" size-wise damage i think you could pull would be a huge-sized sun blade (which you can wield two-handed as if it were a huge-sized shortsword for you) with a lead blades spell and enlarge person/righteous might/divine power/etc. up on you.


Ishpumalibu wrote:

Thanks guys. I was considering cavalier already, i just wasn't sure if there were some awesome spells to boost ride checks or something.

Why ioun stones?

ioun stone

wayfinder

look both of those over--the interactions and granted effects are surprisingly good, and at usually affordable prices. shoutout to the ebon wayfinder, which holds 2 stones and isnt super expensive.

examples: pale opalescent pyramid slotted in a wayfinder grants weapon focus for the weapon it's tied to for super cheap, pale green prism and its cracked counterpart give you bonuses, with the cracked (or was it flawed) one getting amped by the courageous enchant. theres bonuses to stats, skills, initiative, CMB/CMD, immunities to effects, and lots of utility literally floating around your head with them.

they're really underestimated/underappreciated.


an azata-blooded (+dex/cha) aasimar paladin (oath of vengeance) 4 / bard (dawnflower dervish) 16 using the racial FCB could hit that +4 bonus (+8 with DD archetype's battle dance) in inspire courage at 16th level (as compared to maxing at the +3)

.

FCB progression would be:
*effective bard level for inspire courage w/ FCB assuming pal 4 / bard 16*
-/-/-/-/1.5(+1) | 3/4.5/6(+2)/7.5/9 | 10.5/12(+3)/13.5/15/16* | 17*(+4)

* - add FCB to inspire courage until 10th-level bard (14th level), then the other 6 points (3 effective levels) into another performances or HP/skills if you want

.

possible build might be:

Spoiler:

bard (DD) 1 / paladin (vengeance) 4 / bard +15

(20pb)
str 16 , dex 32 (7pt +2r), con 24 (5pt), int 16 , wis 14 (-2pt), cha 28 (10pt +2r)
dex/dex/dex/dex/dex (level), +6 dex/con/int/wis/cha (belt/headband), +4 dex/con/cha (book/wish)

traits
-armor master
-optimistic gambler

feats
1 - weapon finesse, dervish dance*
3 - power attack
5 - lingering performance
7 - arcane strike
9 - greater mercy*
11 - extra LoH*
13 - extra LoH*
15 - extra LoH*
17 - extra LoH*
19 - ultimate mercy*

* - mostly filler; replace with lunge, the step up (and strike) line, discordant voice, etc. if you want.

gear
+5 courageous holy keen falchion
+5 mithral full plate or o-yoroi (counts as medium, so bard ACP immunity still applies)
headband - +6 int/wis/cha headband
head - tri-faced helm
eyes - lenses of detection
neck - +5 amulet of natural armor
shoulders - lesser cloak of displacement
chest - bane baldric
body - resplendent robe of the thespian
belt - +6 dex/con belt
wrists - bracers of the avenging knight, bracers of the merciful knight (up to you)
hands - glove of storing
ring1 - +5 ring of protection
ring2 - ring of freedom of movement or ring of evasion (shrug)
boots - boots of striding/springing, winged boots (both are fine)

slotless:
-white opalescent pyramid ioun stone (scimitar) (slotted in wayfinder, grants weapon focus (scimitar))
-various other ioun stones (seriously they are so useful)

you could easily remove int or wis from the headband to save cash.

a tentative attack from the above might be:
+41/+36/+31/+26 (+16 bab +11 dex +5 enhancement +10 dance/courageous +2 baldric +1 stone -4 PA)
-all of which can be activated on the first round with a move and swift action. with smite it jumps to +46/+41/+36/+31.

damage might be:
~47.5 (1d6 (~3.5) base + 11 dex +5 enhancement +10 dance/courageous +4 arcane strike (16CL) +8 PA +2d6 (~7) baldric +2d6 (~7) holy)
-with a 15-20 crit range
-smite bumps that by another +13 (cha+paladin level, bypassing DR, doubled against evil outsiders)


dont forget ioun stones!


halfling archaeologist bard or (any race) destined bloodline bloodrager would be my first guesses.


Doomed Hero wrote:
8) Laugh.

it would seem your avatar is already doing it for me.


two-world magic (trait) could let you grab disrupt undead for your spell list i think


Entilzha wrote:

Main reason why the Zen Archer is powerful is because Archery, in general, is a strong option in Pathfinder.

Not to mention that a Zen Archer is (virtually) guaranteed to Flurry every round.

Still waiting for the melee version of Clustered Shots. :)

hammer the gap is a nice alternative (though ranged folks can use it as well, hilariously enough)


gnomersy wrote:
AndIMustMask wrote:

remember folks, the AoMF isnt *required* anymore since the clockwork prosthesis is out--it costs regular to enchant, and can go up to +10 like any other weapon. main issue is that it's 6k, meaning that you'll have to wait for quite a few levels to get one.

if youre stuck using an AoMF because you DM is a terrible person, for higher levels the monk's robe isnt terribly useful anymore--it's effects cap at effective monk level 20, you can wear a bodywrap of mighty strikes (yes, yes, heresy i know) to add more effects (like, say, holy and courageous) to 4 attacks, generally the first four since they're more likely to hit.

keep the AoMF at a flat +5 enhancement, and use the bodywraps for auxiliary effects.

Unless

1) You didn't want to play robocop and cut off all your limbs to make your monk work

OR

2) You know that in a month or two they're going to make it so that prosthetics don't count for unarmed strikes because if they were going to nerf Brass Knuckles into oblivion why not do the same to fake arms?

refluffing is a thing, naturally--though for #2 i would be Most Displeased with paizo's continued apparent hatred of those overpowered, overpowered monks.

as for robocop i was more thinking something like this.

also, you dont need to cut off all your limbs--it's just one arm! is that so much to ask for a functional unarmed fighter monk (asks paizo)?


remember folks, the AoMF isnt *required* anymore since the clockwork prosthesis is out--it costs regular to enchant, and can go up to +10 like any other weapon. main issue is that it's 6k, meaning that you'll have to wait for quite a few levels to get one.

if youre stuck using an AoMF because you DM is a terrible person, for higher levels the monk's robe isnt terribly useful anymore--it's effects cap at effective monk level 20, you can wear a bodywrap of mighty strikes (yes, yes, heresy i know) to add more effects (like, say, holy and courageous) to 4 attacks, generally the first four since they're more likely to hit.

keep the AoMF at a flat +5 enhancement, and use the bodywraps for auxiliary effects.


Mechanical Pear wrote:

And the Crane style feat tree works great with stunning fist and a Hungry Ghost's Punishing Kick. "Finally, I get within melee range of you, and have a full attack. I swing my sword..." I roll some dice, "Deflected, and now I stun you as an AoO." "I stop swinging my sword :("

Or, instead of stun, I kick you backwards 5 ft. and knock you prone. Kinda hard to finish your full attack, then.

And I prefer the strength build over dex. In the end, dex is awesome, but early game, a high strength + a lot of shuriken (especially with the Barbarian Hurler's increased range) = decent damage from a distance.

crane style nerf kills that idea, unless you're doing a total defense action.


I was looking through some of the lesser-viewed books in my collection, and remembered ultimate magic's section on wordcasting. I got to thinking on interesting wordcasters, and threw together a wordcasting arcanist, thinking to combine the two's flexibility. gotta say i'm liking the results, but i'm unsure on the feat selection.

currently he's an ice blaster/necromancer (with none of the limitations on elemental blasting, since you can tack on other elements hilariously easy with wordcasting), have a look:

Spoiler:

arcanist wordcaster
human arcanist (wordcaster) 20

str 10, dex 20 (+5), con 20 (+5), int 34 (+12), wis 10, cha 24 (+7)
int/int/int/int/int (level), +6 dex/con/int/cha (belt/headband), +5 int, +6 cha (book/wish)

traits
reactionary / gifted adept (undeath)

reservoir
11/40

exploits
1 - bloodline development (draconic [white or silver])
3 - school understanding (necromancy)
5 - counterspell
7 - spell tinkerer
9 - dimensional slide
11 - counter drain
13 - metamixing
15 - metamagic knowledge (bouncing spell)
17 - greater metamagic knowledge (???)
19 - item crafting (craft wonderous item)

feats
1 - spell focus (conjuration), improved initiative
3 - augment summoning
5 - spell focus (necromancy)
7 - undead master
9 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
11 - dazing spell
13 - spell focus (evocation)
15 - greater spell focus (evocation)
17 - elemetal focus (cold)
19 - greater elemental focus (cold)

spell slots
7 / 7 / 7 / 7 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 6 / 5

Effect Word Combinations
Word One Two Three
Level Effect Word Effect Words Effect Words
0 0 — —
1st 1 — —
2nd 2 0/0 —
3rd 3 1/1 or 2/0 0/0/0
4th 4 2/2 or 3/1 1/1/1 or 2/0/0
5th 5 3/3 or 4/2 2/2/2 or 3/1/1
6th 6 4/4 or 5/3 3/3/3 or 4/2/2
7th 7 5/5 or 6/4 4/4/4 or 5/3/3
8th 8 6/6 or 7/5 5/5/5 or 6/4/4
9th 9 7/7 or 8/5 6/6/6 or 7/5/5

words
0 - all 0-level effect/meta/target words
1 - alignment shield (alignment), burning flash (fire), dash (time), fade (concealing), fog bank (weather), force shield (armor), friendship (command), glide (flight), wrack (pain) | burst (target), line (target) | careful (meta), quiet (meta), simple (meta)
2 - accellerate (time), disappear (concealing), float (flight), frost fingers (ice), enhance form (body), energy resist (body), decelerate (time)
3 - undeath (death), servitor III (summoning), torture (pain), complex order (command), paralyze humanoid (binding), dimension hop (teleportation), lightning blast (electrcity), fire blast (fire), wind wall (wall), ice blast (ice), translate (language) | barrier (target)
4 - ice wall (ice), acid wave (acid), bestial form (change), servitor IV (summoning), ice blast (ice), unseen shell (concealing), sound blast (sonic), altered form (change), borrow future (time) | manifestation (meta), mind warp (meta)
5 - servitor V (summoning), stone wall (wall), crush will (command), dimensional jump (teleportation), far casting (language) | irresistable (meta), penetrating (meta)
6 - servitor VI (summoning), negation (dispelling), resist arcana (dispelling)
7 - servitor VII (summoning), dimensional shift (teleportation), caustic cloud (acid)
8 - servitor VIII (summoning), permanent paralysis (binding), thunder strike (electrcity), winter's wrath (cold)
9 - Servitor IX (summoning), control time (time), dimensional gate (teleportation)

the build assumes the arcanist will get the usual human FCB of "grab an extra spell" with the official release this year.

i took the undead master feat to get around the lack of desecrate interaction with the undeath word (it's not animate dead, and desecrate has no clause for it, so whatev)


@mechanical pear: DUDE. i had completely forgotten about the enlightened warrior trait. holy crap that opens so many paths up


yeah, pretty much. they've got damage output going for them and little else--in a social game or anything requiring finesse, they're pretty much boned (the bloodrager spell list is hilariously unprepared for anything other than buffing really, since their "blasting" options are terrible compared to just move+attacking), and cant deal with any kind of stealthy opponent until they reveal themselves.

that and they die horribly in an antimagic field (most bloodrager abilities are supernatural, meaning they go poof)

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