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had a party lose a member to a random encounter with a geletinous cube in a hallway. it was supposed to be an easy fight, but all of them somehow managed to fail their perceptions to see past it's translucence, so they walked directly into the thing.
it didn't help that the paladin somehow failed his fort save vs. paralysis.
my group now has an irrational fear of oozes.
actually i'd say a cleric or oracle of nethys, personally (just wielding a scythe regardless):
while he's big on souls and the afterlife (so i can see urgathoa or even pharasma working as well) and how to get his immortal butt in it (which he then ironically works to undo once he DOES become mortal again), he's a powerful spellcaster--he's the one who resurrected/re-bound nightmare to a new body in SC3, and has managed to both cure AND re-instate his own immortality with the aim of seeing the world's future firsthand and learning more from it.
personal opinion: for paladins, sex is not punishable by fall under all but the most extreme circumstances, such as breaking a vow of celibacy or a similar tenet of their deity, rape, or multiple instances of crazy depraved stuff; i'm talking things that would make hedonismbot blush, since i'm not going to judge too harshly if someone in the clergy has an odd fetish (a novel concept, i'm sure).
long as they're up front, honest, treat their partners well, and continue fighting the good fight when on-duty, i don't care if they drink themselves into a stupor at every other opportunity. everyone needs stress relief somehow or you will work yourself to insanity or death, especially when you see the kind of daily horrors that a paladin would.
this is all obviously assuming that their deity doesn't have a taboo on sexual conduct.
also, a small note: provided said brothel was working under the law (oldest profession and not all countries are hyper-repressed) and all the workers were there by choice, a paladin would be the BEST patron for a brothel. they're almost guaranteed to pay well, treat their partner(s) kindly and considerately, and their partner(s) would leave with less diseases than they started with (if any). they can also relieve fatigue with a touch, which would have a great many uses in such encounters.
even if they don't partake personally, they could walk through and high five (lay on hand/mercy) the patrons and workers and everyone would be all the happier for it.
just my 2 copper on the subject.
so, when will we get a stabbing grace feat for light weapons like, you know, daggers? shortwords? lots of those wonderful DEX-y weapons?
fencing grace works with *A* weapon.
slashing grace works with... 3 i think (dueling sword and a few others)?
and it's still better to just go with dervish dance and call it a day. you've accomplished nothing, paizo.
i'm mostly disappointed that rogues got not a single archetype to get inspiration/studied combat and strike (like they said they would in the playtest), favored target (like they said they would in the playtest), brawler featgrabbing (which apparently everyone under the sun got), or panache (again, almost everyone got this), or ANY FREAKING WAY TO SHORE UP ANYTHING AT ALL (more feat tax for your saves with horrific drawbacks is not helpful). no new better or fixed rogue talents, no way to grab investigator or slayer talents (which again, they said they'd get in the playtest), no nothing.
you had ONE JOB paizo, and you will never learn your lesson or listen to the thousands of posts of feedback because of something as trivial as page count.
monk got pummeling style at the very least, but we all know that will get crane wing'd in a matter of weeks due to MoMS pounce at level 2 bringing forth cries of "monk op nerf now".
i'm not going to get excited over unchained's apparent reworks either, since i can already tell they're going to miss the point entirely and nothing will change.
well sure, but that it has some neato mechanical applications is great too.
you can play anything at all for character concept and roleplaying--and people can have fun with optimized builds too (shocking revelation, i know)
ACK! pardon the triple-post; the edit timer got me on the first one. I wanted to add:
I you have the time to spare, I'd also suggest reading the webcomic Darken, since it shows a great way to operate as a CE player and not be retarded (and is a pretty cool comic to boot).
the MC has some clear-cut rules he follows despite his rampant greed and lack of empathy:
an example build:
dhampir (svetocher)* antipaladin 17 / phalanx soldier 3
(AP 5 / FGT 3 / AP +12)
* - dayborn alt racial feature taken
traits: unnatural presence / magical knack (antipaladin)
free demoralize checks against his target anytime he power attacks, free checks against everyone within 30ft on a kill, and can use dazzling display as an immediate action on a 15-20 crit. wield a +X cruel polearm (with keen via fiendish boon) for maximum effect, and have a spiked gauntlet on his buckler-hand for melee threatening.
endgame intimidate will be sitting around +42 before non-stat items (23 ranks/class skill, +8 cha, +11 str), and will work on pretty much anything not mindless or a paladin.
if he goes graveknight, acid or electricity are nice elements to choose for the mandatory 'theme' since they're not as often resisted as fire or cold (and spitting lightning everywhere you go is badass).
oracle 1 makes a great dip (nature/lunar/lore for their respective 'cha-to-defenses' abilities, and some curses are really easy to live with), titan mauler barbarian 2 or phalanx soldier 3 lets you wield a polearm in one hand with a shield--i suggest a buckler to keep your hand free for spellcasting and ToC'ing yourself to heal if you need it.
i certainly wouldn't take all of them at once, but considering one of them might be helpful.
for oracle i'd start as it and move into antipaladin, for barbarian or fighter i'd wait until level 5 antipaladin before going into them.
also, since you're cha-focused as a class, going the intimidation route might be worth your while:
anyway, for a dhampir stat spread i'd go with moroi-born (svetocher), assuming 20pb:
the wis dump makes sense for someone who's vicious, since it might lead them to make rash decisions in their anger.
also, since both animate dead and desecrate are in your class spell list (and the reliquary trait is super cheap), you could use them to supplement your eventual graveknight army (since they're separate 'buckets', to use Brewer's terminology). spend the money to make your weapon a "reliquary" weapon for a permanent altar-boost in your desecrate spells too (while this becomes redundant when you become a graveknight since you ARE the altar at that point, before then it's super helpful).
read THIS for some great advice (and suggest it to your necromancer lady-friend as well, to save your GM a headache)
I'd also say take a look at marshmallow's guide above, and bodhizen's guide (the antipaladin stuff is towards the bottom) for some excellent advice on the subject of antipaladin-ing.
best of luck, and give them hell for me.
i'm really liking esoteric magic and the 6th and 7th level powers--and getting a specialized bardic knowledge and being able to take 10 on the core arcane caster skills including UMD (!!!) at 1st level is nothing to sneeze at.
scroll master is okay, and the rest of the middle abilities are kinda meh (writing-based traps aren't overly common in my experience), but it seems nice for either a 1-level dip or an all-in route, especially if you can get the esoteric scholar fame thing to repair the CL hit or take the magical knack trait to do the same. the former is preferable, since it gives you spells learned/known as well as the CL increase, but some DMs dont play in golarion, or they don't allow a similar refluff.
Here's the class for those who haven't seen it.
I'm not sure where to place this. It seems like less of an upgrade and more of a utility side-grade for a caster, since you're effectively trading class-advancement increases like bloodline or arcane schools and a caster level for lots of little powers.
the grabbing other class' spells is really nifty looking though, and the dispel focus might be neat for arcanists as well i guess?
I thought i'd get y'all's opinions on it.
one i built back in the playtest was:
Spoiler:the main shtick necromancy+cold (since most undead are immune to cold, so you can blast away without killing your minions), and abuses wordcasting's keyword stacking ability for using multiple words to double-dip feat bonuses for spells.
human arcanist (wordcaster) 20
str 16, dex 20 (5), con 20 (5), int 32 (5+2r), wis 16, cha 24 (5)
Effect Word Combinations
undeath + [frost cantrip] CL 30
it was made under the assumption that humans would get a "grab an extra spell/level" FCB, which i'm not sure is the case with the ACG release (i don't have the book on be right now). i suppose i should really update this to grab some of the newer stuff like quick study soon.
and with some of the stuff i've learned in the various necromancy threads and on CL-boosting since i made the build, i could make the undeath wordspell WAY higher than CL30 (highest best-case CL i've cranked out was 43 for animate dead so far).
some example builds i had laying around:
human antipaladin 17 / black-blooded oracle (lore/legalistic) 1 / titan mauler barbarian 2
(ORC 1 / AP 5 / BAR 2 / AP +12)
str 30 (7+2r), dex 16, con 20 (5), int 18 (3), wis 16, cha 26 (5)
traits: Unnatural Presence / Magical Knack (antipaladin)
rage powers: Auspicious Mark
revelations: Sidestep Secret
SCARY ANTIPALADIN (fighter dip)
dhampir (svetocher)* antipaladin 17 / phalanx soldier fighter 3
(AP 5 / FGT 3 / AP +12)
* - dayborn alt. feature taken
str 28 (5+2r), dex 18 (2), con 20 (7-2r), int 18 (1), wis 16, cha 28 (+2r)
traits: Unnatural Presence / Magical Knack (antipaladin)
for-fun "Nightmare" (soul calibur) build
Tiefling (demon-spawn) Antipaladin 14 / Titan Mauler Barbarian 6
(AP 5 / bar 6 / AP +9)
*scaled skin alt. racial
str 28 (7+2r), dex 28 (7), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 12 (-4-2r), cha 26 (5+2r)
traits: unnatural presence / glory of old (surprisingly not dwarf-only for some reason)
abilities: aura of evil, detect good, smite good (5/day), touch of corruption (7d6, 15/day), channel negative energy (7d6), unholy resilience, plaguebringer, fiendish boon (+4), aura of cowardice, aura of despair, aura of vengeance, aura of sin, big game hunter (+1 (+4) attack [morale], +1 dodge vs larger enemies), jotungrip, massive weapons (-2), evade reach (5ft), rage (19 rds/day)
rage powers: superstition (+6 (+10)), witch hunter (+5 (+9)), spell sunder
cruelties (DC 25): sickened, dazed, nauseated, paralyzed
I haven't actually taken any real time to go through the ACG and see what options have opened up for those classes or feat-wise. also, all of those builds involve dipping or multiclassing, which really hits your casting hard, as well as your ability advancement (smites, fiendish boon, cruelties, etc.), and even then they're tough nuts to crack.
oh jeez oh man, lemme get my builds ready to post.
some key points for antipaladins:
-the magical knack trait makes the -4 CL hit less painful by cutting it in half.
-being cha-centric makes cornugon smash, dreadful carnage, and shatter defenses your best friends. slap on a cruel enchanted weapon and have at it. NOTE: dont use dazzling display--it is a feat tax for shatter defences and nothing else. the other two give you demoralize checks for FREE, instead of eating an action.
-in the same vein as the above, osyluth's guile is helpful for one-on-one battles, or for making i harder for the beefiest monster to get at you while his ineffectual mooks remain so.
-conductive enchant works wonders for a 'bad touch' setup via cruelties
-for gear, look into the robe of runes. it's great.
-you're evil, so teamwork isn't quite as necessary. this means you can build 'selfishly' and make yourself both incredibly tough to kill while still dealing hilarious damage via smite, debuffing, and your antipaladin spells (particularly the buffs for yourself).
-you get animate dead and desecrate on your spell list. USE THEM. even with little investment and the natural CL hit from the class you can still have some nice minions to follow you around. you'll just have a fewer number than a full necromancer. bloody skeleton (for beefy things), fast zombie (for things with lots of attacks), and juju zombie (for things with class levels) templates are your friends.
on dipping (i certainly wouldn't diverge from antipaladin for long, since it's a solid class already):
-a 2-level dip in titan mauler barbarian can let you wield a reach weapon in one hand and a shield (see: buckler for free hand casting/ToC'ing) in the other, along with rage and a rage power (reckless abandon is a favorite of mine), along with the ability to grab yet more rage powers via feats (though barbarian level limitations still apply).
-if for some reason you want reach-and-shield without rage, a 3-level dip (while costly for your ability progression) in phalanx soldier fighter nabs you two bonus feats and the ability to wield a polearm one-handed with a shield (again, a buckler to keep your hand free).
Another proffession for rocks might be a miner, a quarryman, gemcutter, bricklayer, many many kinds of general construction-worker, and dwarf.
"wait, you cant have profession: dwarf!"
"do you think you can get that drunk, dig a moat around the camp, and still murder twenty orcs before sunrise that easily boy? It takes practise. Dwarf isnt a race--it's a lifestyle."
agreed hrothdane, but bane is still a thing as well:
Tiefling (demon-spawn) Bloodrager (abyssal bloodline) 12 / Fighter (two-handed fighter) 7 / Oracle (lore/lame) 1
-Scaled Skin racial feature taken
Str 35 (10pts +2 race +5 level +6 belt +6 EH) / 48 (+11 morale +2 size)
HP: 314 / 514 (rage) (d10 (5.5avg) x12 + d12 (6.5 avg) +5 con +1 toughness / +11 rage)
-power attacking or dropping an enemy gives a free intimidate check to demoralize (+48 (23 ranks/class, 6 cha, 19 str), works on animals and vermin as well as usual targets)
of course this is using the old playtest BR and needs to be double-checked against the current BR, as long as it keeps demonic bulk and the STR bonus it's golden.
you could even tack on primalist and trade the 8th, 16th, and 20th-level bloodline powers for 6 rage powers (lets say... the beast totem line and superstition/witch hunter/spell sunder).
i dont know whether to be frustrated or thankful that with the BR 12 req for the abyssal str boost and the 2HF 7 req for backswing cant be combined with a 2-level MoMS dip for prereq-free pummeling style and pummeling charge (since that would put you at 21 levels total).
two level moms dip (for 1st and 3rd pummeling style feats) into abyssal/arcane/destined primalist bloodrager has a lot of potential.
question: does trading a BR ability for rage powers allow you to start taking the extra rage power feats? because if so i could see that spiraling out of control quickly.
question 2: because you're a barbarian hybrid class, can you take barbarian FCBs? because trading out a bloodline ability for witch hunter + superstition's crazy high save boost (with human FCB) seems more than worth it.
then again for a BR's feats you'd want power attack, arcane strike, reckless rage, etc. still leaving you plenty to spend on extra rage power if that door is now open.
as an alternative, perhaps a destined bloodline primalist for witch hunter+superstition along with the scaling luck bonus AC and to saves (as well as other nifty stuff)?
not quite as anti-mage, but more anti-everything in exchange (though fortune's favored + destined bloodrager + superstition + cloak makes for some freaking hefty saves)
something to note though: since you're not a barbarian, you can't get the FCB to boost superstition to stupid-high levels (unless you can since it's a hybrid class involving barbarian, but i highly doubt that).
so maybe a dwarf with (fortune's favored + destined bloodrager (+2-6 bonus)) + cloak (+1-5 bonus) + steel soul (+4 bonus) would be good?
i for one welcome anything that allows the classes not named barbarian to pounce.
this is basically pounce+ultra vital strike.
also, what of the cestus? brass knuckles? gauntlets? punching daggers? the klar or neko-whatevertheheck claw hand things? those re all weapons one could feasibly punch with.
page 84, for the bloodrider AT:
Blood Bond (Su): At 9th level, the bloodrider and his
there should be an end to that sentence, not just a floating "at"
pummeling style seems great, but then you realize you'll never get it in time (for a rogue) to be useful... (EDIT: unless you MoMS dip for them as noted above--at which point that means that every martial now has access to 'pounce vital strike plus-plus' at level TWO)
the 'sneaky' weapon enchant from the ACG looks helpful (1/day (free action): mark someone and get your SA on your next attack against them regardless of flanking/dex-deny status AND lets you use the hunter's surprise ability once more per day if you have it), and slashing grace (or the fixed 'fencing grace' posted on the boards by the design team) is great.
if you go the charismatic route the 'steadfast personality' feat seems like it would greatly help you not automatically die at/after 9th level.
You rely on your assuredness and sense of self to help keep your mind clear.
Benefit: You gain an insight bonus on Will saving throws against mind-affecting effects equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 0).
the 'twist away' feat also seems helpful to that end, but the staggered condition it imposes in exchange might get you killed anyway (edit: unless there's a way to become immune to the staggered condition).
if you go the intelligent route, the studied combatant and improved studied combatant feats all help your accuracy/damage problem, but comes in super late (bab 6 and 8, respectively, and requires 'amateur investigator' feat as a prereq).
it's a damn shame paizo didn't add a panache, brawler-feat-grabbing, or inspiration based rogue archetype, nor any way for the rogue to get any of the invesigator or slayer talents as far as i can see (short of taking levels in the classes who'se abilities you need which defeats the whole point)--any of these would have been incredibly helpful, but i've already come to expect this kind of disappointment with paizo.
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
yeah, but if you're a martial who isnt named fighter you're grabbing it at 7th level--the same level where full-casters get some of their niftiest toys (like, say, black tentacles). if you ARE a fighter, you're getting it at 6th, so you get one level of fun before you're not allowed any anymore.
even then it's still a matter of the martial getting to do one thing to one person, while the caster can cover an area with what amounts to a save or die--if he doesn't have a party to mop up the now-betentacled or stinking cloud'ed enemies, he can just summon some to do it, since the enemy is certainly in no condition to interrupt his full-round summon at that point. he can even pull off the untouchable flying+invisible shtick at that point, albeit not for nearly as long a duration as his high-level counterpart.
my 2 copper on why casters win over martials is that casters can affect the world at large on an entirely different depth and scale than a martial can.
while the wizard is busy terraforming the continent while flying around untouchable and privvy to the day's events beforehand and prepared accordingly, the fighter can... swing his sword four times at stuff (five with magic involved)? with reach if he lunges?
mythic only changes the game to high-speed rocket tag for both sides, which the wizard still largely wins due to mythic spells and having their auto-win initiative setup before they even got to mythic tier.
and if the fixes get too lengthy they wont even do them--or else their page count/references get ruined (oh the prices we pay for pagecount)
for feats i'd say either look into long-standing armor buffs or the arcane armor feats (or still spell if you've got the slots to spare). if you've got a bite attack, noxious bite (if you've chosen an acid dragon breath) is a neat feat (monster feat sure, but nothing in the prereqs says you've got to be one) might be cool for a natural attack build.
How do you make it clear to players that an encounter is too strong to fight, and they have to be clever?
Magical marketplace (iirc that was the name) has a slew of clockwork stuff that would be neat to craft--such as spider automatons to aid gunslingers, prosthetic limbs (that are frankly a must-have for any unarmed monk, since it is both cheaper than an aomf and can be enchanted fully, on top of adding amazing bonuses by themselves), and more.
ah, just realized: if you're going the poison route, i give a +1 to my alchemist suggestion--they get to craft the stuff on the cheap, and (iirc) can change poisons from one type to another (like say, an inhaled poison to an injury one). drow knockout poison is a fav of mine for that. and poison bombs are fun too.
consider scout ninja instead of plain rogue--the ki powers for mobility and such would likely be of great help to you--there's also some cheap slippers for spider-stepping on the go.
tack on the charging hurler feat and you can throw on the go. vanishing trick and (later) invisible blade let you SA with some regularity.
you could also consider either vivisectionist alchemist or archaeologist bard: they can fill the 'rogue' slot very well--especially with the trap finder trait (though the archaeologist doesn't need it). they are comparable in the skill area, competent in combat without relying on SA's restrictive mechanics, and have spells.
there's also the ACG playtest classes the investigator and slayer: the former is an int-focused skillmonkey (rogue skills/level with an int-focus built in = WAAAY more skill points than a rogue) with much better accuracy and can still do 'spike' damage with studied strike at the end of their powerup, and the latter is a full BAB class with the best of both worlds from the ranger and rogue. tack the trap finder trait on and they're ready to go.
trapper ranger is worth considering as well.
really though, any class with trap finder trait and an investment in perception and disable device can handle the job fine. for example you could play a magus (invested in perception/DD with the trait) who loves using force hook charge to 'web-sling' around the battlefield.
off the top of my head: dual-cursed (???/legalistic) lore/nature/lunar oracle 1 / iroran paladin 14?
any of the mysteries work nicely, it just depends on whether you want higher reflex or CMD. your saves should be respectable anyway, so i usually go for the CMD in that case.
lunar can also net you a full-progression animal companion if you spend the feats for extra revelation and boon companion (which isn't too painful since paladins are usually rather feat-light).
wolfscarred/lunar (with a wolf AC/later mount) might work nice thematically.
Hmm? How do they not go well together? Youre a nobles sprog who got lost during a hunting trip or while exploring the grounds--spirited away by the fey or accidentally stumbling through a wild gate or something. You have a fun time there meeting the strange locals and they send you back right as rain. Unfortunately youre displaced by a few years, as spiriting away is wont to cause. After returning home and puzzledly having everyone hug and cry over you for some reason ( because at your age you didnt kniw how kuch time had passed for them with you missing), you carried on where you left off. So your character looks a little young for their documented age, and you get neato powers and a fun backstory.
Hell, it even lets the GM tie in a fey from your little vacation recognizing you later and asking for help or something, or a quest to prove your legitimacy to your family that youre who you say you are.
Maybe you were adopted by an heirless house who thought finding you was an omen or an answer to their prayers (think disneys hercules-style)
Or maybe you come back to find that your house has fallen and you must work yiur way from nothing to bring your family name out of the muck (perfect for kingmaker!)
You could have been displaced by days, months, or even years, decades, or in extreme cases, centuries. Playing a temporal fish out of water brings lots of roleplay opportunities if you go that route.
@OP: my advice is to not go for mechanics if youre trying to be unsettling. Thats something for you to roleplay. My 2 copper on the matter: the most effective ways are in the little things. Sure you can play a shambling groaning qlippoth spawn with the wasting curse to squick your teammates, but its too in-your face about it, so they'll eventually just ignore it and move on. You need to keep it consistent and subtle or the effect will be reduced or lost entirely.
Maybe they collect useless or strange things (fingernails, eyelashes, bottle corks, etc.) without any apparent interest in doing so, maybe theyre entirely benign but work off of a completely alien morality system (where most people think in black/white/grey, you think in yellow and purple). Maybe theyre a high-functioning sociopath. Have something off about your character that isnt readily apparent, but leaves the other players uneasy of what it might imply.
Obviously this is easier done in a morally grey or evil campaign, but even good guys can be creepy. Just leave the other characters with lingering questions about you that they dont neccessarily want answered.
You can flavor the character mechanically for creep as desired. maybe dark tapestry oracle or a similar witch, or take the opposite approach and play something completely normal, such as a fighter or ranger.