| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We all know (and the devs knew, going in) that this is a grueling process. Since 10,000 people have 9,000 different opinions of what they like/don't like.
And I'm sure Jason spikes his coffee with blood pressure medicine each morning.
So, I thought I'd make a thread about what changes have come about that people are happy about so far. Or things that have stayed that you're glad stayed. Or whatever.
I'm glad resonance got changed, if for no other reason, because folks seem happier about it now.
And I'm glad they changed that whole signature skill system (I liked the idea of it. I just don't think it had any point at character creation. So freeing it up was good).
And my favorite thing so far that Jason has said: "Yea.... this thread is locked and everyone knows why." hahaha
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite things...
- Open Skill Proficency
- Action Economy
- Modular Design / Easy to Houserule & Homebrew
- Archetypes / Multiclassing
- Sorcerers of diverse Magical Traditions
- Restricted AoO
- Tactical Gameplay
- Ancestries (in theory)
- ABC +4 character creation
- Four Tiers of Success
- Improved Class Parity
- Rituals
- Downtime Mode and Crafting
- Stronger Skills
- CMB replaced with Skills
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
- More paladin alignment options
- Signature Skills gone
- Combat skills
- 3-action/1-reaction economy
- Restricted AoO
- Cool unique monster abilities
- Use of d12's in the system
- Scaling cantrips
- Universal save DCs
- Quick Preparation for all wizards
- +Level to many things
- Feat-based Multiclassing
- Poisoner alchemist specialization
- 1.6 Ki Rush and Ki Strike
- Spell points
- Skill feats like Cat's Fall that meaningfully scale with proficiency
- Skill feats like 1-handed climber and quick climb that open up new terrain
- Bardic Performances powered by cantrips
- Bards as occult 9-level spellcasters
Not all the mechanics are finished, and the game has a solid amount of work still to do before I am ready to buy it and many years of content before I completely migrate to the new system (mostly due to how much I still like the old one) but when I eventually do make the full swap, these are many of the aspects that will convince me to convert.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite things...
- Open Skill Proficency
- Action Economy
- Modular Design / Easy to Houserule & Homebrew
- Archetypes / Multiclassing
- Sorcerers of diverse Magical Traditions
- Restricted AoO
- Tactical Gameplay
- Ancestries (in theory)
- ABC +4 character creation
- Four Tiers of Success
- Improved Class Parity
- Rituals
- Downtime Mode and Crafting
- Stronger Skills
- CMB replaced with Skills
I agree with basically everything here, but I can also add some more things that I personally like:
- How a lot of Feats give new Action/Reaction options instead of numerical bonuses
- Rangers and Paladins being their own thing instead of Half-Casters
- Fighters as a whole, the class just feels like a Fighter should have always been for me
Non-good Paladins
Spellpoints/Focuspoints
Casting in melee
Four Tiers of Successes
Blaster Druids
Channel Smite (the pre-nerfed version)
Inspire Courage
Healing in combat
Wait, doesn't casting in melee still trigger reactions in most cases? Both Somatic and Material casting are manipulate actions. Probably I'm either interpreting the rules or what you mean by that wrong...
If a reaction is triggered by manipulate actions, sure, casting will trigger it.
There aren't a lot of those reactions. Most classes don't have any. Some reactions may not damage or interrupt the caster.
When you get down to the number of NPCs and monsters who can react to a manipulate trigger AND can interrupt the spell, it's a small list.
For every other opponent, casters can cast in melee.
I'm not sure it's a good thing. I cut my teeth on the version of this game where EVERY spell took at least a whole round to cast. EVERY enemy could hit you in melee, or shoot you at range, or whatever, and they didn't even need a reaction or an AoO to do it - they could just wait til their turn and smack you because you were STILL casting. And all it took was 1 point of damage to disrupt the spell. No concentration check allowed. No Combat Casting feat.
In that edition, spellcasting within bowshot range of an enemy was risky.
It's a good thing that combat spells have been nerfed into oblivion. In that old edition, many combats ended on the round that the wizard cast his first big spell. The wizard was the nova that ended the fight most of the time. So it was necessary to stop them.
Now it doesn't rally matter if the wizard casts his spell. Most of what he has on his list is not really much better than if he just hit you three times with a level-appropriate magical sword.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yep. Casting in melee.
Yes, there are some enemies with reactions which will trigger, but I am fine with the risk and I am a bit curious of finding out if it has one on the hard way. I love it to stand with my storm druid right in front of my enemy while throwing Tempest Surges on him. And if I might get hit in return, I get hit. Fine with me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Update 1.6 made some big steps forward on a few classes that I really enjoy - Alchemist, Paladin, and Rogue all got some pretty cool stuff. My favorite thing for the moment is the Redeemer, though Distracting Feint for the Scoundrel is a close second. Now if we can just get Sneak Attack damage on spells...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
- How a lot of Feats give new Action/Reaction options instead of numerical bonuses
- Rangers and Paladins being their own thing instead of Half-Casters
- Fighters as a whole, the class just feels like a Fighter should have always been for me
Great additions. Fighters and Monks absolutely floored me with much they improved in the playtest.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The action economy is the only solid plus for me so far.
I quite like the concept of UTEML but am struggling to accept the skills system for other reasons, so maybe that’s why it’s not telling for me.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Big things I've liked from the start:
Changes I've liked:
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
- Class design now with subclasses for nearly all classes
- Monsters
- Visibility/Senses explained in deapth. This was a pleasant surprise seeing stuff like precise/imprecise senses spelled out clearly
- weapon traits. Give those to armor, shields and other items, too!
- skill feat concept
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
bla bla action economy
I think the biggest wins for me in the system that aren't utterly trodden to death are:
1) Treat Wounds. Out of combat healing that is a clear part of the game instead of hidden in the item section, and doesn't end adventuring days too early like not having good out of combat healing at all.
2) Rarity system. Great filter for content.
3) Multiclassing. Being able to be a X/Wizard that is not a horrific joke at both is great. By far the best multiclass system I've seen for its goal (mix 2 classes) rather than the 'plunder class for 1 feature' style of 1E
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
1. The Heal Spell.
2. That there is a rarity system baked in.
3. Action economy (I know, I know, everyone loves this).
4. The mechanics of multiclassing.
5. Silver being the standard currency unit.
6. Fighters are fun to play now.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think my number one favorite thing from the playtest is how cool the monsters are. Paizo clearly put a lot of love into them. From hydras that actually incentivize you to cut heads to skittery goblins, it seems like every monster has something unique it does to mix up combat.
As far as changes that I've loved over the course of the playtest, I'm over the moon with Rangers being able to hunt people they are tracking and super happy to see alchemists no longer relying on Resonance for their class features (not to mention picking up an at-will feature, even if it is kinda weak).
I also adore the +10/-10 crit system, specifically for save-or-suck spells. It's something I've already adapted into my PF1e games.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
thank you
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Trinkets, Poisons, Weapon traits and Runes.
Sadly for Paizo, at least when it comes to me as a customer, all seem easily converted to PF1.
Hope they do well so they can keep printing adventures though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Scalable spells like Heal and Magic Missile
The action economy
Degrees of success, and their intended effect on save-or-die effects. (The balance is still off on DCs vs saves, I think.)
Weapons are better differentiated with traits
Magic weapon properties are transferable
Magic items are more unique, and the mandatory items have been reduced
Modularity in multiclassing
Unique and cool monster abilities
Ease of encounter modification
Probably controversial... but I like Bulk
Well defined rules for sneaking and invisibility, and sensing those creatures
I think the updates have gone mostly in the right direction as well.
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
1. Action economy.
2. Narrowing the gap between optimised and non-optimised PCs, perhaps the biggest advantage of PF2.
3. CG Paladins of Ragathiel torching orphanages.
4. Spell nerfs. Good riddance, color spray.
5. Monster design, cool abilities, unshackled from PC math.
6. 4 degrees of success/fail.
7. Rogues. Finally the class they were meant to be.
8. Tighter math, allowing for less abuse and no more +30 to a skill at level 10.
9. Open-ended design allowing for less "well we kind of should have included this in the Core Rulebook, but you know, 3.5e compatibility".
10. Taking the sacred cow of 3.5 compatibility and shooting it repeatedly in the head until it's dead. Ding dong, the witch is dead, we can have a self-reliant RPG now, thank you.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I definitely like 3 action because it gives lots of options.
The rarity system was something that was needed. How rare is this or that creature for knowledge DCs? I somehow felt a ghorazag from the Darklands was not going to be found with a common check.
Cantrips scaling is awesome and gives casters attack options without blowing big spells on minions.
So much great potential.
That is actually hilarious.I will take an unusual approach to this.
One of my favorite things about Pathfinder 2e is that dragons in human form retain all of their statistics, even their reach, which is how you get Gargantuan dragons who linger around in Small or Medium form and fight like anime dragonpeople.
I suppose it would look a bit like fighting Mister Fantastic, but somehow, he has Venom's teeth.
|
|
I will take an unusual approach to this.
One of my favorite things about Pathfinder 2e is that dragons in human form retain all of their statistics, even their reach, which is how you get Gargantuan dragons who linger around in Small or Medium form and fight like anime dragonpeople.
I need to make my own list but that really is something very welcome.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Shamelessly also stealing some from others, since a good thing bears repeating:
1. Action Economy - It adds depth to combat and I honestly never want to explain the old actions to new players again, particularly since many PF1 classes had no Swift action economy.
2. Reaction Diversity - AOOs being somewhat rare but potentially having a lot of different reactions (particularly fun ones like the new paladin reactions) is personally more interesting than 20 AOOs
3. 4 Degrees of Sucess - I like it, but with two caveats, currently rolling that 20 seems to be too relevant in getting those crits, I would prefer if the personal skill modifier of the character was more relevant to get a crit.
Second "complaint" right now (especially in a scenario but also in part 4 of DDD) a normal success feels kinda underwhelming and you really want that crit. It does not feel tremendous but somewhat liked to my first caveat, a higher skill bonus for very invested characters would reduce the luck component.
4. Multiclassing and Archetypes: I actually vastly prefer the new system to the old since much more options are actually viable, and it narrows the gap between great multiclass characters and really really bad ones.
5. Downtime builds into the core systems - Sometimes designers just nail it and develop the perfect archetype for your character, and this is where retraining could really shine. Also curious how downtime could be a reward in organized play.
6. Scaling Cantrips: As much as I love Magus type characters, I never want to see a caster feeling forced to use his crossbow or dagger, I prefer casters waving their magic staffs around to cast cantrips. Personally, caster classes (as opposed to a character that gains access through multiclassing or ancestry feats) could use a bit of a boost here - ideally a class feature or equipment based solution. Weaknesses help, but they are really not common enough to count for much. In my playtest the Wizard decided to use his +3 dagger instead of his cantrips and that just felt wrong.
7. Level to skills/stats: I noticed the problems the old system had in high-level play and prefer this approach, though the proficiency/skill feat systems could do with a bit of polish, to at least give the perception of getting better.
8. Spell points, focus points and power: I like the unified pool since that increases your options as you level and even low-level powers stay useful (also like the automatic scaling of powers), but the very best aspect, is that they are now proper spells and thus no longer follow different rules (like SLAs in PF1)
9. Keywords: On Monsters, items, spells etc. I think the new layout is so much clearer and I never want to write or read some of the longer terms. The way they are set up it would be pretty easy to write more feats for multiclass combos just give it each keyword, so a Magus type feat would require the ability to take Figher and Wizard feats for example. This is one of those examples that will make it so much easier down the line to test things, research builds etc.
10. Spell variations: Various number of casting actions and often options to heighten spells gives player more options of what to do with their spells. Though my only complaint is, that more spells (especially cantrips) could benefit from the treatment Heal/Harm have received.
11: Mage Armor: While I would still want a "heavy" version that limits Dex for a higher base AC for those lower levels the improvements to this spell huge:
Bracers of armor are no longer an expensive mistake no-one ever buys since wands and potions of first level spell are so dirt cheap.
24-hour duration is godsent and is a huge quality of life improvement
Mage armor scales like the bracers of armor (huge improvement)
12. Most spell nerfs, honestly being able to attack bloody Black Tentacles is very welcome. I am not super happy about the number of short duration buffs since you have to track them.
13. Tighter Math: It kinda lowers the skill ceiling and raised the floor quite a bit, right now the math might be a bit too tight, but I like the approach personally since this will make it easier to write adventures that are challenging for the entire group.
14. Reducing the Christmas tree effect. Honestly happy to have the choice between more interesting items, and I can definitely live with the next to mandatory armor/bracer upgrade.. I am just not too happy about the damage attacked to potency runes and wish it was linked to character level/proficiency and least to a degree.
15. Tanking options that work for me.... to be fair I am pretty damn happy to have some options for me to play a tank and wield a reach weapon like a Glaive (I kinda like Shelyn).
16. Noncasters feeling viable - that might be personal problem of mine but thus far I have barely played any character without some spellcasting or SLAs in PF1... and I think I won't have that problem in PF2. Those powers seem like a nice choice but don't feel mandatory to me.
happy changes: alchemist and paladin getting mostly un-kneecapped by the rules after 1.6, by divorcing entirely from resonance/focus and addressing their lack of identity and reaction bottleneck, respectively. while i may gripe that smite evil comes far too late, it is still a MASSIVE improvement over previous, and i appreciate that. now here's hoping they do something about sorcerer...
spells being noted and receiving a second pass to help bring them up from "literally worse than just attacking (damage)" and "waste of an action much of the time (saves)" into something more useful and generally usable.
and in the same vein, i really hope their notes on them tuning the monster math down a bit goes well.
i do realize i'm not the best at being completely positive about things, as most of my positives here and previously are "this is great or could be great buuuuuuut...". i want and hope that the system will continue to meaningfully improve and be worth buying and playing on it's release.