WILD enchant to armor,


Rules Questions


I could have posted this in my last thread about treantmonk's guide and allowing shields, however this is a separate issue/concern that can basically be solved with a simple "yes" or "no"

When a druid has the WILD enchant to his armor, does this mean when he wildshapes he is restricted to the dex cap of that type of armor? I'm leaning towards "Yes" but I just wanted to be sure. I could see the counter argument that the armor has melded to the wearer's new shape so it's restrictions do not apply.

Thanks guys

Remember, there's no such thing as stupid questions... only stupid people ;)

The Exchange

Well, all it says is that you retain it's armor bonus (and it's enhancement bonus) while in wild shape. You do not keep any other abilities that may be added on (other than the Wild ability), nor do any of the other functions exist (including armor check penalty or max dex limit, unless they applied before the Wild enchantment).

By the RAW, no, the max dex does not apply.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Seraph403 wrote:
When a druid has the WILD enchant to his armor, does this mean when he wildshapes he is restricted to the dex cap of that type of armor?

The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.


James Jacobs wrote:
Seraph403 wrote:
When a druid has the WILD enchant to his armor, does this mean when he wildshapes he is restricted to the dex cap of that type of armor?
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.

Wow makes sense, thanks a lot guys :)


James Jacobs wrote:
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.

Does this include the non-proficiency penalty? Could a druid who spends most of combat wildshaped, or spellcasting wear wild dragonscale full-plate with no "real" penalty?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Enkili wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
Does this include the non-proficiency penalty? Could a druid who spends most of combat wildshaped, or spellcasting wear wild dragonscale full-plate with no "real" penalty?

Nope; the non-proficiency penalty should still apply, just for game balance reasons.


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Enkili wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
Does this include the non-proficiency penalty? Could a druid who spends most of combat wildshaped, or spellcasting wear wild dragonscale full-plate with no "real" penalty?

The non-proficiency penalty does not apply as the armor is melded.

Nor does the armor special material properties (which shouldn't be any), or further enhancement bonuses (like fortification), or other properties (like silent moves, slick, etc).

The armor melds. The wild enhancement allows the armor bonus (and enhancement bonus to it) to be retained even though the armor is melded (and thus non-functional and isn't considered worn anymore).

-James


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.

I wish there was another option out there for druids that would give them the armor bonus with shifted that did give the penalties and could be a +1 or +2 equivalent bonus. At the very least to help shifting druids get to a higher level to where they can aford wild armor.


Personally I would like it if Wild Armor worked with the polymorph spells as a whole... but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:
Personally I would like it if Wild Armor worked with the polymorph spells as a whole... but I'm not going to hold my breath for that.

You would think for a +3 enhancement bonus it could. I guess they don't want Wizards polymorphing into a dragon, giant or humanoid and casting spells with out spell failure since you can't cast spells anyway in amimal, plant or elemental form. But if you are a wizard that spent the feats for armor prof and paid the +3 enhancement cost for the wild armor and wanted for the duration of 1 min per level to have an armor bonus when in your dragon, beast, plant or elemental form I see no problem with it.


I'm confused (again). Where in the polymorph rules does it explicitly says that the armor stops working? And I don't mean its armor bonus, which is stated to "cease to function." Nothing is said about losing "constant" special properties or the armor's penalties (arcane spell failure, max dex cap, skill check penalty). Unless it's errataed or forum-ruled. If so, where is it?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Louis IX wrote:
I'm confused (again). Where in the polymorph rules does it explicitly says that the armor stops working? And I don't mean its armor bonus, which is stated to "cease to function." Nothing is said about losing "constant" special properties or the armor's penalties (arcane spell failure, max dex cap, skill check penalty). Unless it's errataed or forum-ruled. If so, where is it?

It says it melds into your body meaning you are no longers physicly wearing it. If the form you are in is not physicly wearing armor (as in it having been meld into your body) then how could you incure penalties for not having it physicaly worn. Giant shape and alter self does not have your armor meld into your body so you would still keep all the penalties because you are still physicly wearing armor. Wild, much like Fortification, is a constent effect that does work, as any constent effect would, while items are meld into your body only it grants your the armor bonus from the wild enhanced armor that is meld into your body but because it is still meld into your body you wouldn't incure the penalties. Thus why, as James said earlier,

"The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1."


I just saw the "official" answer above, now I see what RAI was. The only thing left is to include this in future re-prints. After all, just writing "melds into your body" doesn't imply "is rendered useless" because magical items continue to work. I understand that it could be interpreted as such, and I just wanted the fine print to be adjusted to avoid such debates in the future.

BTW, since the aforementioned James reads this thread, is there a ruling on the Shield bonuses? (whether they apply when wildshaped, that is)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Louis IX wrote:

I just saw the "official" answer above, now I see what RAI was. The only thing left is to include this in future re-prints. After all, just writing "melds into your body" doesn't imply "is rendered useless" because magical items continue to work. I understand that it could be interpreted as such, and I just wanted the fine print to be adjusted to avoid such debates in the future.

BTW, since the aforementioned James reads this thread, is there a ruling on the Shield bonuses? (whether they apply when wildshaped, that is)

"melds into your body" does mean you are no longer wearing it. If you are no longer wearing it then you don't get the penalties. There is little reason to have the writing changed. You might want to call it RAI I call it RAW.


Dragorine wrote:


"melds into your body" does mean you are no longer wearing it. If you are no longer wearing it then you don't get the penalties. There is little reason to have the writing changed. You might want to call it RAI I call it RAW.

I agree with the bolded part. If your equipment kind of disappears, it stands to reason that its penalties and its bonuses disappear as well.

I oppose this with the fact that magical items continue to function. If your equipment simply disappears, they shouldn't work at all. That would make polymorphed character quite weak, though.

The end result is a mixed bag, where your items disappear completely but your magical items continue to work except the possible armor bonuses (and nothing is said about shield bonuses).

PRD, Polymorph sub-school of magic wrote:


Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor bonuses, which cease to function).

If I read this correctly, Bracers of Armor don't work when polymorphed, but special properties of armor (Fortification, etc.) continue to work. That's thankful too: imagine that the Wild special property doesn't work when wildshaped...?

EDIT: Just another question: since the armor disappears completely, could a Monk/Druid benefit from his Wisdom bonus to AC when wildshaped and using a Wild armor? (on top of getting the armor's bonus to AC, of course).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I would let bracers of armor to work. They are not armor. They just give the armor type bonus to your AC. But if that is how it is worded then my ruling may not be RAW :P.


Dragorine wrote:
I would let bracers of armor to work. They are not armor. They just give the armor type bonus to your AC. But if that is how it is worded then my ruling may not be RAW :P.

Since you can add armor special ability enchantments to Bracers of Armor in Pathfinder, I'd say you need Wild Bracers of Armor.


I am all for letting BoA work. They function in a manner very different from normal armor.

They way I see the difference between magic items and armor (and shields) is that the magic item slots meld into your body, but they still function because they placed inside you equivalent to magic item slots. Armor on the other hand necessarily has to be worn on the outside to grant you a physical protection. It doesn't when melded inside you, unless it's got the Wild ability, in which case it is integrated as a part of your skin (or hardening it or whatever).

Scarab Sages

The Shield Bonus form a wild tower shield should follow the same logic as the armor bonus, simple as that.

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