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A few days ago, in some thread or another, I noticed that I had NOT noticed how PathFinder had changed Damage Reduction. Or more specifically how to overcome it.
There have been other little things like that, I just didn't even notice, so it dawned on me, why not try to start a topic about it. What I'm hoping for is just to point out some differences that are not obvious, from both Alpha and Beta, but also from 3.5 in particular.
I do not want this as some excuse to not buy the books (by telling all the details), but rather just to show some of the less common ones that are easy to miss.
Like above, how D.R. has been changed so that the Enhancement bonus's of weapons can overcome certain D.R.'s.
Mithral armor no longer counts as proficiency.
Mithral weapons now count as silver.
While I normally don't want class or race specific things, elves now sleep.
Anyone else interested in this, or have I just missed a similar topic, somewhere?
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Nothing costs XP anymore, whether it be spell or item crafting.
Barbarians can enter a rage as a free action, take a 1/rage action on their turn, then stop raging as a free action. Rinse and repeat each round. This tactic sucks until you get Tireless Rage.
Stabilization has changed:
On the character's next turn, after being reduced to negative hit points (but not dead), and on all subsequent turns, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check to become stable. The character takes a penalty on this roll equal to his negative hit point total.
And you go to negative con now, not -10.
Honestly that's just so obvious too. I've been houseruling that for years, including the Fort Save = 10+ ABS(Current Hitpoints).
Creative Director
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Elves are immune to sleep effects. Whether or not they actually SLEEP is something that each GM or each Campaign Setting gets to decide on their own.
The concept of elves never sleeping is something that, I believe, was popularized by the Forgotten Realms. That's not open content, so we're shying away from the idea in print. But the fact that elves are immune to sleep effects IS open content.
Elves are immune to sleep effects. Whether or not they actually SLEEP is something that each GM or each Campaign Setting gets to decide on their own.
The concept of elves never sleeping is something that, I believe, was popularized by the Forgotten Realms. That's not open content, so we're shying away from the idea in print. But the fact that elves are immune to sleep effects IS open content.
Not sure if it helps, but Green Ronin's Sourcebook on Drow uses the 'doesn't sleep' mechanic for Drow (they meditate instead for 2 hours a night). That section is, if I read the cover right, OGC.
Poison now has a new dynamic. Onset (time until poison effect applies to the victim) and frequency (how often the effect is applied after onset). The victim can shake off the effect by making one or several consecutive saves.
Also, the Neutralize Poison spell has been heavily nerfed.
Concealment will no longer allow you to use Stealth in bright/normal light. (Although, for several reasons I do believe anything that makes you impossible to perceive visually will still obviously allow you to use Stealth regardless of concealment vs. cover. For instance: Obscuring Mist.)
In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.
Normal light functions just like bright light, but characters with light sensitivity and light blindness do not take penalties. Areas of normal light include underneath a forest canopy during the day, within 20 feet of a torch, and inside the area of a light spell.
To see drawn out discussions on this go:
HEREand
HERE (Not all of this thread pertains and it is very long.)
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Also Uncanny Dodge's wording no longer supports that it protects you from losing your Dex bonus to AC against an invisible attacker.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.
It says invisible attackers can't catch you flat-footed. But attacks from an invisible attacker deny your Dex bonus to AC regardless of whether or not you would currently be considered flat-footed as well as getting an additional +2 to hit you.
For detailed discussions on this go:
HERE
Also see:
Detailed UD question.
Detailed answer.
Barbarians can enter a rage as a free action, take a 1/rage action on their turn, then stop raging as a free action. Rinse and repeat each round. This tactic sucks until you get Tireless Rage.
Um, don't you mean "rinse and repeat every third round" since they'll spend the next two rounds (2x rounds spent in Rage) fatigued and unable to resume rage? Unless they take Roused Ange to rage while fatigued, but after which (even if it's just a round) they are exhausted for several minutes...
Still, Barbarian rage in rounds/day is something, although major class abilities are less easy to miss the changes.
One of the little changes that make monster attacks easier to adjudicate is that the attack type itself dictates whether it's a primary or secondary attack. I.e., claws/bite are always primary attacks. Multiattack is less useful for most animals now, but it's a helpful little change for DMs that isn't immediately obvious.
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Yeah, just gated Nalfeshnees, Astral Devas, and noble djinni. HUGE difference. ¬_¬Gate now allows to call and control a creature with HD up to and equal to caster level, changed from up to 2x level in vanilla 3.5
No more gated Solars :)
Yes there is one, because neither of the three can wish/miracle out of the box (noble djinii have to get caputred, gating in doesn't count).
Calling in a CR 13-14 creature via a lvl 9 spell is okay down my books, calling in a CR 23 isn't.
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Two CR 13-14 creatures. (Or two pit fiends at caster level 20, which is level 18 or earlier.) And I got my outsiders wrong (tsk tsk), you want ghaeles (13th level clerics) and glabrezus (Wish), not devas or nalfeshnees.
Basically Gate still does exactly what it ever did (gates in gamewinning creatures and gives you cheap Wishes) only it does it with different creatures now. Not a big change.
[sarcasm mode on]
Game-winning lvl 13 Cleric ? But we all know that ever since Clerics lost heavy armor prof and turn undead is no longer as awesomely useful as in vanilla 3.5, the Cleric is now a broken, worthless class barely superior to the Truenamer. You will have more success by gating in a lvl 13 Swashbuckler...
[sarcasm mode off]
Rope Trick does not allow to hide the rope anymore. Do you want to pass the night into the enemies' dungeon? Fine, let's hope they do not stumble into a 15 ft. rope hanging into the middle of nowhere...
Chain Lightning damage is not reduced with secondary bolts, only the DC is easier.
Fire Seeds (Acorn Grenades version) damage is changed; now it uses d4s instead of d6s, and no single grenade can deal more than 10d4 damage (but the cap is still your caster level, maximum 20d4) - basically, you have to throw multiple acorns to a single target to deal more than 10d4 damage, no more 'Little Boys' are allowed...
Meteor Swarm has been slightly changed.
1) the Fire damage is all added together before applying Fire Resistance (this change was present since Beta), so basically a creature with Fire Resistance 20 CAN take damage from a Meteor Swarm (previously, with 6d6 for each Meteor, such a creature could easily avoid all damage).
2) a creature struck directly is now allowed a Reflex Save against the fire damage portion of the spell (but not the bludgeoning damage portion), albeit with a penalty.
Mind Blank does not give complete immunity to mind-affecting spells, only a +8 bonus against such spells (already included in Beta)
Death Ward does not give complete immunity to Death effects, only to Negative Energy effects and Energy Drain - against Death effects however you have a +4 save bonus.
Protection from Evil/Good/etc. does not grant immunity to ongoing mental control or possession, only to NEW attempts to control or possess a warded creature. An already possessed or controlled creature can make a new save to suppress the ongoing effect while warded by the spell (however, if the Save is successful, the effect is resumed when Protection from XXX ends).
Almost all 'Save or Die' spells now deal 10 hp damage per caster level on a failed save (this includes Slay Living, Destruction and Wail of the Banshee among others, but does not include Phantasmal Killer and Power Word Kill).
Hideous Laughter allows a second save the following round (after a first failed save) to ward off the effects - but only once (that is, if you fail the first save, you have a second save, but nothing more after that).
Half-orcs have light sensitivity.
Huh. That's one I missed. Pretty weird decision to throw that in the Bestiary'a subtype description when they're talking about a core PC race.
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I'm thinking it could be a couple of things (I don't have bestiary yet).
1.) Could be orcs rather than Half orcs.
2.) Could be for the Half-orcs raised in orc society rather than all Half-orcs.
3.) Could be a way to tone-down the half-orc which is kind of a bit overpowered. Maybe. I don't think it's that bad honestly.
Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
Nobody in their right mind will assume it was intentional, but the half-orc bit really is errata.
Orc Subtype: This subtype is applied to orcs and creatures related to orcs, such as half-orcs. Creatures with the orc subtype have darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity.
Half-orcs are specifically included in the group, and the group is explicitly assigned light sensitivity.
Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
"Erratum", my beloved editor-in-chief.
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Creative Director
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"Erratum", my beloved editor-in-chief.Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
That's Editor-in-Chief.
And messageboards are where grammar goes to die anyway.
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"Erratum", my beloved editor-in-chief.Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
That's Editor-in-Chief.
And messageboards are where grammar goes to die anyway.
So it can be beaten with a stick and stolen by English?
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Creative Director
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Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
Nobody in their right mind will assume it was intentional, but the half-orc bit really is errata.
Orc Subtype: This subtype is applied to orcs and creatures related to orcs, such as half-orcs. Creatures with the orc subtype have darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity.Half-orcs are specifically included in the group, and the group is explicitly assigned light sensitivity.
Being part of a group does not AUTOMATICALLY mean you have all of that group's traits.
Half orcs are not detailed in the Bestiary; the only place one can go for half-orcs right now is the Pathfinder Core RPG. Page 25. Nothing there mentions light sensitivity at all, so there's no errors to worry about anyway.
The listing for the Orc Subtype in the Bestiary could have been worded more clearly. Were I doing so today I'd say:
Orc Subtype: This subtype is applied to orcs and creatures related to orcs, such as half-orcs. Creatures with the orc subtype have darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity, unless otherwise specified.
This is actually mentioned at the start of the Creature Types section on page 306, where the Bestiary says: "A creature cannot violate the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality to explain the difference..." indicating that the subtypes are mutable and can change depending on the needs for the specific monster. To get technical, we probably should have given the half-orc a "Light Adaptation" ability, but without the context of what most orcs get, this would have been kind of silly and a waste of space.
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Creative Director
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So it can be beaten with a stick and stolen by English?"Erratum", my beloved editor-in-chief.Half-orcs do not have light sensitivity.
Orcs DO have light sensitivity.
Orcs should NOT have low-light vision. (this is the only actual for-reals errata of the three)
That's Editor-in-Chief.
And messageboards are where grammar goes to die anyway.
Nope! The messageboards are the gutters that English struts past on its way to mug another unfortunate language. The messageboards might contain cast-off fragments from these tussles or bits of waste English discards, but they're lucky if English ever notices them at all aside from remarking upon how unfortunate the singular odor rising from the alleyside drain's tepid water is.
I heard that Hobos now take 2d6 fire damage when stealing cooling pies from window sills instead of only 1d6...
Wait, wrong game. That was from Depressions and New Deals 1930 edition. :p
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To get technical, we probably should have given the half-orc a "Light Adaptation" ability, but without the context of what most orcs get, this would have been kind of silly and a waste of space.
Just curious, do you guys keep a "perfect version" of the books where you make all these little, probably-should-have changes for either second printings or possible future editions?
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Creative Director
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To get technical, we probably should have given the half-orc a "Light Adaptation" ability, but without the context of what most orcs get, this would have been kind of silly and a waste of space.Just curious, do you guys keep a "perfect version" of the books where you make all these little, probably-should-have changes for either second printings or possible future editions?
I do and have been for the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.
I believe Jason's doing something like this for the rulebooks. But adding "Light Adaptation" to the half-orc is not a change we'll be making. If we make ANY change, it'll be to the orc subtype in the Bestiary to indicate that light blindness isn't a trait ALL orc types have.
@Mr. Jacobs
I actually don't care about proper grammar. I just think Erratum is a cool word and you are one of the few people with cause to use it frequently.
English is a protean thing, more so than many other languages, and I believe people will speak it as they please. I don't try to fight it, but I'll stand up for some cool words just to keep them in the vernacular!
Barbarians can enter a rage as a free action, take a 1/rage action on their turn, then stop raging as a free action. Rinse and repeat each round. This tactic sucks until you get Tireless Rage.Um, don't you mean "rinse and repeat every third round" since they'll spend the next two rounds (2x rounds spent in Rage) fatigued and unable to resume rage? Unless they take Roused Ange to rage while fatigued, but after which (even if it's just a round) they are exhausted for several minutes...
Still, Barbarian rage in rounds/day is something, although major class abilities are less easy to miss the changes.
One of the little changes that make monster attacks easier to adjudicate is that the attack type itself dictates whether it's a primary or secondary attack. I.e., claws/bite are always primary attacks. Multiattack is less useful for most animals now, but it's a helpful little change for DMs that isn't immediately obvious.
You are correct, which is the very reason I said: "This tactic sucks until you get Tireless Rage." ;)
The mechanics for Dispel and Greater Dispel magic are greatly changed as well.
Dispel magic can only be targeted on a single target (no area) and can only dispel a single spell effect. However, it no longer is capped with a 10th level Caster Level limit.
Greater Dispel allows the area of effect or targeted dispel (to remove multiple spells) that we are used to.
Many spells that used to offer no save (Ray of Enfeeblement or Irresistable dance) now offer a save for a reduced effect.
Some spells that offered only one save, now offer several (like glitterdust)
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Director of Narrative
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I heard that Hobos now take 2d6 fire damage when stealing cooling pies from window sills instead of only 1d6...
Wait, wrong game. That was from Depressions and New Deals 1930 edition. :p
Not to derail things, but at least the 1930 edition fixed the error with the Possum Belly feat, allowing its use as an immediate action rather than a free action. I mean, what would the point be otherwise. We immediately house-ruled that one, but it's nice to see it in print.
The older edition still had some good points as well. Bindles could hold twice as much, cholera was easier to deal with, and a tried-and-true scamp could always get the drop on a bone polisher.
Stabilization has changed:
On the character's next turn, after being reduced to negative hit points (but not dead), and on all subsequent turns, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check to become stable. The character takes a penalty on this roll equal to his negative hit point total.
Thanks for the info. I totaly missed this.
So if you start a campaign at level 6 the ranger need not take Precise Shot, but can pick Improved Precise Shot instead. Über.
Improved Precise shot doesn't grant the benefits of Precise Shot.
Right you are. But skipping PBS is nice.