
![]() |
This is an off-shoot of another thread, but I felt some discussion on the matter would be useful:
The subject says it all. Before you say 'all drow are evil, so, half-drow are impossible' or 'half-drow would be rejected by both parents' races, so, would never survive,' I don't see how any of those comments fail to apply to half-orcs.
If you have any doubts, read the orc entry:
"Along with their brute strength and comparatively low intellect, the primary difference between orcs and the civilized humanoids is their attitude. As a culture, orcs are violent and aggressive, with the strongest ruling the rest through fear and brutality. They take what they want by force, and think nothing of slaughtering or enslaving entire villages when they can get away with it. They have little time for niceties or details, and their camps and villages tend to be filthy, ramshackle affairs filled with drunken brawls, pit fights, and other sadistic entertainment. Lacking the patience for farming and only able to shepherd the most robust and self-sufficient animals, orcs almost always find it easier to take what someone else has built than to create things themselves. They are arrogant and quick to anger when challenged, but only worry about honor so far as it directly benefits them to do so."
If anything, given superior drow intelligence, it would seem that a half-drow would be better suited to act as a moral agent (i.e., able to consider the moral implications of its actions). Therefore, a half-drow seems to have a better chance of rising above the evil in its nature than a half-orc.
Consider how any moral question requires one to go beyond instinct or socially-conditioned responses. Hence, the ability to question the status quo (i.e., intelligence and/or wisdom) seems to be necessary to reject it.

![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Because there is a huge, huge difference between an aggressive and morally questionable society and a creature that is inherently evil.
Growing up in an environment that fosters evil activity, does not make one inherently evil, even if you partake in those evil activities.
If you are inherently evil, there is no redemption. You exude evil, and are the essence of it.
You can argue until you are blue in the face about how this shouldn't matter and all that, but the bottom line is, the Lore of Golarion (not PFS, but Paizo's campaign world of which PFS makes use) indicates that Drow are irredeemably evil.
A half-orc, on the other hand, is not evil at all, unless that individual's personality has a predilection towards evil and they choose to follow that bent.
I doubt very highly that you are going to convince PFS campaign staff to introduce something into Paizo's Campaign World of Golarion that Golarion does not support.

![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
well.... you convensed me. In my home game there are no Half-Orcs.
(actually, there weren't any before.)
but this is PFS, and I'm not the GM here. so...
I was lead to beleave with other things I have read that Drow are NOT a genetic difference, but are rather elves that have "slipped into evil"... in other words, Drow are not born, they are rather created.
cross a drow and a human and you get a half elf.

![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |

The ISWG also notes that drow, like aquatic elves have developed a completely different physiology. When we're talking about drow we're talking about a whole different kind of elf (or subspecies).
At the root of it, however, was the desire of the developers to return the Drow to their traditional role as the 'bad guys'.
The drow of Golarion are not to be trusted. They worship demons. They’re slavers and sadists. They perform hideous experiments on innocent victims. The drow are back to being evil, in other words.
There are certainly exceptions to the every rule. There are good drow out there. They just are so rare that when it happens it is an event unto itself.

![]() ![]() |

Multi ninja-ed but there are a few points that might add to the conversation.
In Golarion, first reason would be that human/drow meetings are so rare that humans question whether Drow exist, if they have heard of them at all. Orc/Human couplings are common by comparision. This is not Forgotten Realms.
There is a surface elf organization (Lantern Bearers)working actively to destroy any evidence of drow, and this would include half drow.
Drow-ness is something of a curse/disease/abberation in Golarion. That means the elf in question, either by birth/culture or gaining the drow condition are bordering (or are) irredeemably evil. Therefore, it is questionable if an infected half drow could consider good behavior. This is not true with half orc or even a tieflings. This might be a case where the motherhood of the child might matter. The fetus might just suck up drow-ness through the drow mother's immune system. Meanwhile, a human mother, lacking 'drow factor' might give birth to a normal half elf, even if the father were drow.
Out of game, PFS is trying to limit the number of 'special snowflakes'. A half drow would would be an uber duber super special snowflake.

ArgentumLupus |
The ISWG also notes that drow, like aquatic elves have developed a completely different physiology. When we're talking about drow we're talking about a whole different kind of elf (or subspecies).
They may have a completely different physiology, but surface elves can spontaneously mutate into drow if they fall too far, thus taking that new physiology.
I would describe drow as something more akin to aberrations, or just "Mutated Elves".

![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |

This is an off-shoot of another thread, but I felt some discussion on the matter would be useful:
The subject says it all. Before you say 'all drow are evil, so, half-drow are impossible' or 'half-drow would be rejected by both parents' races, so, would never survive,' I don't see how any of those comments fail to apply to half-orcs.
If you have any doubts, read the orc entry:
"Along with their brute strength and comparatively low intellect, the primary difference between orcs and the civilized humanoids is their attitude. As a culture, orcs are violent and aggressive, with the strongest ruling the rest through fear and brutality. They take what they want by force, and think nothing of slaughtering or enslaving entire villages when they can get away with it. They have little time for niceties or details, and their camps and villages tend to be filthy, ramshackle affairs filled with drunken brawls, pit fights, and other sadistic entertainment. Lacking the patience for farming and only able to shepherd the most robust and self-sufficient animals, orcs almost always find it easier to take what someone else has built than to create things themselves. They are arrogant and quick to anger when challenged, but only worry about honor so far as it directly benefits them to do so."
If anything, given superior drow intelligence, it would seem that a half-drow would be better suited to act as a moral agent (i.e., able to consider the moral implications of its actions). Therefore, a half-drow seems to have a better chance of rising above the evil in its nature than a half-orc.
Consider how any moral question requires one to go beyond instinct or socially-conditioned responses. Hence, the ability to question the status quo (i.e., intelligence and/or wisdom) seems to be necessary to reject it.
Drow are so "rare" on the face of Golarion that they have only been featured as bad guys in two Pathfinder Society modules so far that I can recall, and one of those two is retired.
Nathan Meyers
NYC Player/GM

![]() |
Because there is a huge, huge difference between an aggressive and morally questionable society and a creature that is inherently evil.
Growing up in an environment that fosters evil activity, does not make one inherently evil, even if you partake in those evil activities.
If you are inherently evil, there is no redemption. You exude evil, and are the essence of it.
You can argue until you are blue in the face about how this shouldn't matter and all that, but the bottom line is, the Lore of Golarion (not PFS, but Paizo's campaign world of which PFS makes use) indicates that Drow are irredeemably evil.
A half-orc, on the other hand, is not evil at all, unless that individual's personality has a predilection towards evil and they choose to follow that bent.
I doubt very highly that you are going to convince PFS campaign staff to introduce something into Paizo's Campaign World of Golarion that Golarion does not support.
Again, word games and hand-waving-read the drow entry and the orc entry: they share the same traits (sadistic, rule through fear and might), relish in the same kinds of activities (slaughter and enslavement).
The two main differences is that the orc entry falls short on using the word 'evil,' despite describing the same attitudes and activities; and that the orc entry makes explicit mention of half-orcs as being bred by tribes in order to have smarter strategists.
But again this brings us back to the original problem: if half-orcs are raised under the above conditions, how could they end up as being non-evil, in a way that a half-drow couldn't?

![]() |

As I said in the other thread,
Half-drow do not exist in Golarion, and if there were one or two that did exist (which is incredibly unlikely given that drow are irredeemably evil and not interested in making half-drow—except maybe driders) they'd be the focus of a large story like an AP or a novel or something like that rather than a dime-a-dozen PC concept. While we have half-drow traits in the ARG, that's more for folks using the Pathfinder RPG rules for their own games than for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting specifically.
This thread is locked. Please do not spam the boards with multiple threads about the same topic. Thanks!