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Want to do a bit of a twist on Bracers of Archery:
Heavily decorated bracers in theme of archery and hunting.
3x Day, for up to an hour's time, the bearer can summon forth a +1 bow. (short, long or composite or correct strength for wielder). When they go to draw the bow, an arrow will also come forth from the bracers, giving a maximum of 20 arrows in a day's time.
Thoughts?
How would you go about pricing something like this?
Thanks for ideas and comments!
I have built your item using the rules in the books. abundant ammunition is rom Ultimate Combat.
I would like to post it in this thread if you don't mind.
Bracers of the hidden bow
Aura faint conjuration (creation); CL 7th
Slot arms; Price 40,000 gp; Weight 1 lbs.
These leather bracers are heavily decorated with ornaments in the theme of archery and hunting. When a command word is spoken, a magical +1 bow is summoned into the hands of the wearer for up to an hour.
He can choose to summon a shortbow or a longbow, and if his Strength is 12 or more, he summons a composite version of the chosen bow with the correct Strength rating.
When the wielder draws the bow, an arrow will appear in it, ready to shoot. This ability can summon up to 30 arrows in a given day and only works in the hands of the wielder of the bracers.
The bracers can be used 3 times per day to summon a bow.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Items, minor creation, abundant ammunition, magic weapon Cost 20,000 gp
Construcion Process:
All spells have caster level 7 (since you can't get 4th level spells earlier - because of minor creation)
I chose minor creation to summon a bow, abundant ammunition to summon the ammunition and magic weapon because of the +1 bonus of the bow.
Command word item: 1800 gp x caster lvl x spell level * (5/3) - *(5/3) for 3 charges
for minor creation: 1800 x 7 x 4 = 50400 * (5/3) = 30240
abundant ammunition: 1800 x 7 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 7560
magic weapon: 1800 x 7 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 7560
for multiple abiltes we need to increase the cost for abundant ammunition and magic weapon by 50%.
so we get 30420+11340+11340= 53100 as per the rules.
This is extremely expensive for the effect we get.
Since the minor creation is extremely limited and can only summon bows, in addition to having a duration that is 1/7 of an actual casting of minor creation with cl 7, we can adjust the price here.
I suppose we could substract 30% for the bow limitation and another 10% for the decreased duration, making the price 30420-30%=21294-10%=19264.
Abundant ammunition would summon arrows for 7 minutes per casting, resulting in 21 minutes a day. This is pretty useless if you factor in the bow is existing for up to 3 hours.
We could rule the price to be as written and instead of a set duration look at how many arrows can be maximally summoned in the duration: 7 minutes=70 rounds= 70-280 arrows depending on the user's BAB and need of killing things.
So if we limit it to half of the max value for a 1st level user per casting (rounded down to 30), we can let it at the same prize i think.
To make it limited as you chose (20 per day) we could substract 30% of the prize i think. I would limit it to 30/day thought, this way you get roughly 10 arrows per use.
11340-30%=7938
Magic weapon is a spell with a duration of 1/min per lvl. we need a duration of 1 hour/lvl. For a continuos effect this would double the cost, but i suppose adding 20% would suffice.
11340+20%=13680
Adding the costs: 19264+7938+13680=40808
Still a lot, you could say it's 40000 and feel good :D
You can also add automatic proficiency with bows for the wielder by adding the spell bestow weapon proficiency, which would use the same formula as magic weapon, just doubled, which would add 27,000 gp to the cost.
You could also upgrade magic weapon to magic weapon, greater by trippling the prize of the spell.
this would increase the enhancement bonus to +2.
If you also increase the Caster Level to 8, you get a +3 bow.
Also in the greater version you can use the limit of 30 arrows / use, ignoring the -30% reduction for abundant ammunition
With magic weapon, greater you get a better version of the item:
Bracers of the hidden bow, greater
Aura faint conjuration (creation); CL 7th; 8th; 12th; 16th;
Slot arms; Price 50,000 gp (+2); 66,000 gp (+3); 122,000 gp (+4); 162,500 gp (+5); Weight 1 lbs.
These leather bracers are heavily decorated with ornaments in the theme of archery and hunting. When a command word is spoken, a magical bow with an enhancement bonus of +2 tp +5 is summoned into the hands of the wearer for up to an hour.
He can choose to summon a shortbow or a longbow, and if his Strength is 12 or more, he summons a composite version of the chosen bow with the correct Strength rating.
When the wielder draws the bow, an arrow will appear in it, ready to shoot. This ability can summon up to 30 arrows per summoned bow an only works in the hands of the wielder of the bracers.
The bracers can be used 3 times per day to summon a bow.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Items, minor creation, abundant ammunition, greater magic weapon Cost 25,000 gp (+2); 33,000 gp (+3); 63,000 (+4); 81,250 gp (+5)
+2 bonus:
Minor Creation: 1800x7x4= 30240 * (5/3) = 30240
magic weapon, greater: 1800X7X3= 22680 * (5/3) = 13680
abundant ammunition: 1800 x 7 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 7560
+50%:
magic weapon, greater: 20412
abundant ammunition: 11340
conditinal adjustment:
-30%-10% minor creation: 12964
+20% magic weapon, greater: 24494
-30% abundant ammunition: 7938
48798
Let's say 50000
+3 bonus:
Minor Creation: 1800x8x4= 30240 * (5/3) = 34560
magic weapon, greater: 1800X8X3= 22680 * (5/3) = 25920
abundant ammunition: 1800 x 8 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 7560
+50%:
magic weapon, greater: 38880
abundant ammunition: 12960
conditinal adjustment:
-30%-10% minor creation: 21772
+20% magic weapon, greater: 31104
65836
lets say 66000
+4 bonus:
Minor Creation: 1800x12x4= 30240 * (5/3) = 51840
magic weapon, greater: 1800X12X3= 22680 * (5/3) = 38880
abundant ammunition: 1800 x 12 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 12960
+50%:
magic weapon, greater: 58320
abundant ammunition: 19440
conditinal adjustment:
-30%-10% minor creation: 32659
+20% magic weapon, greater: 69984
122083
so 122000
+5 bonus:
Minor Creation: 1800x16x4= 30240 * (5/3) = 69120
magic weapon, greater: 1800X16X3= 22680 * (5/3) = 51840
abundant ammunition: 1800 x 16 x 1 = 12600 * (5/3) = 17280
+50%:
magic weapon, greater: 77760
abundant ammunition: 25920
conditinal adjustment:
-30%-10% minor creation: 43545
+20% magic weapon, greater: 93312
162777
162,500 let's say
With pricing I always keep an eye on how much would I be willing to pay, rather than crunch numbers based on prerequisites. The base comparison is a +1 longbow. This is usable only thrice a day, so something less. It also has only 20 arrows (but maybe you can use other arrows if you have them). On the other hand it's easy to conceal and adjust itself to the strength of the wielder.
Depending on the action to activate it I'd say:
standard action: 2k gp (slightly less than a normal bow, since it takes more time to draw)
move action: 3k gp (a bit more than a normal bow due to the self-adjusting strength rating)
swift or free: 6k gp (there is quickdraw in there).
40k gp for that bow is 38k gp than what's worth as a weapon. By the time you have 40k gp to waste the bow is irrelevant both if you are not a true archer (40k gp for something not that useful without archery feats) and if you are a dedicated archer (in which case you will have at least one better bow, probably more as backups).
A good way to go about this is to compare this bow with a glove of storing with a bow inside and a everlasting quiver embedded in your armor/cloak.
The problem, Crysknife, with your reasoning is that this magic item is not just a +1 longbow. It's a +1 longbow that always summons with the appropriate strength modifier. It's a +1 longbow that you can keep with you even when the guard confiscates all your weapons (but lets you keep your clothes). It's a +1 longbow that you can draw after your current weapon as been sundered or disarmed. If you play it right (with a good bluff and lots of running), it's a +1 longbow that you can sell to a merchant and still keep using.
i share your opinion about the cost being way too high crysknife, the problem is, minor creation is the lowest spell capable of creating a bow.
And it is 4th level, coming with a CL 7 minimum.
The psionic power call weaponry is perfect as stated above, and i think it could be assumed some wizard thought about the same effect somewhere.
If you introduce the following spell, it decreses the cost dramatically:
summon weapon, which works as the psionic power, but as a 2nd level wizard spell. (You could also make it a 1st level magus spell i suppose)
New cost: 22,000 gp - ca half the cost of what i posted above.
I think that is a much better fit for what it does.
Construction
summon weapon: 1800x3x2 * (5/3) = 6480
abundant ammunition: 1800x3x1 * (5/3) = 3240
magic weapon: 1800x3x1 * (5/3) = 3240
cost increase for additional abilities:
abundant ammunition: 4860
magic weapon: 4860
Other changes:
summon weapon: since the duration is 1 min/lvl and the item summons for 1 hours, +50% - 9720
abundant ammunition: no change, this time the duration i normally less than half, which doesn't justify cuting the cost because of the wasted potential. it basicaly summons the right number of arrows ayway :D
magic weapon: same as summon weapon, +50% - 7290
21870 ~ 22,000 gp [spoiler]
I added 30% above for the increased duration, i think that was not enough.
If you assume the spell as Magus 1, all that gets even cheaper (though you need to increase cost of abundant ammunition, since it would only normaly be activated for 1 minute - i'd say +50%)
When i think about it, you could make a claim the additional abilies are very similar to the main ability (summon a bow + summon arrows goes hand in hand and magic weapon enhances the summoned bow). So instead of cost increase for them i feel like cost reduction would be ok.
New price: 17,000 gp
summon weapon: 1800x3x2 * (5/3) = 6480
abundant ammunition: 1800x3x1 * (5/3) = 3240
magic weapon: 1800x3x1 * (5/3) = 3240
cost reduction for additional abilities:
abundant ammunition: 3645 (75%)
magic weapon: 2430 (50%)
Other changes:
summon weapon: since the duration is 1 min/lvl and the item summons for 1 hours, +50% - 9720
abundant ammunition: no change, this time the duration i normally less than half, which doesn't justify cuting the cost because of the wasted potential. it basicaly summons the right number of arrows ayway :D
magic weapon: same as summon weapon, +50% - 3645
17010 ~ 17,000 gp
I see your points Sertaki, but using too much the guidelines for item creations risks to lead to skewed prices (see boots of speed which should be priced a lot higher than they are, or other stuff which would come dirty cheap such as a ring of continuous true strike or a ring of magic armor).
All I can compare the bow to is a +1 bow stored into a gauntles of storing. Abundant ammunition should be then applied.
My objective when creating a new item is to make it desirable for my players keeping in mind the level they are expected to get this: how high a level should they be for putting 17k gp into a object they will rarely (if ever) use to assassinate a king? Abundant ammunition would be useful only in these event too, and probably not even then: I suspect most guards may be content to just take your bow and not bother with the quiver.
Even if the bracers allowed the bow to be drawn as a free action I still think it should cost less than a glove of storing with a bow inside, since such bow may be upgraded as needed, and other stuff could be stored in the glove should you need to do so. Really, the glove of storing is great for the variety of things you can put in it.
Mauril, about for the strength rating: this is hard to decide, since no bow property does that. Most of the time though an archer would be content with a bow set on his STR since its STR is unlikely to change a lot (yes, bull strength may be cast upon him, but it's hardly the best option to buff an archer by the time he can afford to spend a lot of money in this object).
Also, I'd make impossible for the bow to be sold, something like it can't leave your hands or vanish. BTW, I doubt a merchant is going to buy a magic bow without identifying it first.
As for drawing after being disarmed: well, you can also draw your (cheap or more powerful) backup weapon.
All in all I was probably too generous with my pricings: how does 10k gp sound for the free action draw version?
I imagine a level 10 character may consider buying it at this price (still, that money allows you to get your +2 bow to +3, which allows you to bypass some resistances). It's still a backup weapon, both for the low enhancement bonus and for the time limit on it.
regarding the ring of true strike/magic armor - such stuff should be priced according to the guidelines for enhancement boni (2000xbonus squared for weapon etc).
Regarding this, the magical property of the bow should also be priced like that i think, instead of going all the way with magic weapon .
This would cut ca 5k from the price (2k for a +1 weapon instead of 7k for the spell effect).
and the price increase for +2 would only be +6k, for +3 +16k, for +4 +30k and for +5 +48k.
Regarding this, the magical property of the bow should also be priced like that i think, instead of going all the way with magic weapon .
This would cut ca 5k from the price (2k for a +1 weapon instead of 7k for the spell effect).
and the price increase for +2 would only be +6k, for +3 +16k, for +4 +30k and for +5 +48k.
I agree on this, only I'm not sure if I'd add these prices "on top" or adjust them adding a multiplier (since it's usable only 3 times a day and because of all the other differences from a normal bow). Probably the second one.
I posted this is in the Magic Items for the Savvy Adventurer thread when Sertaki asked for ideas on how to design your bow. I poked around for a little while, and came up with this in about an hour.
(Totally stole Sertaki's name BTW)
Bracers of the Hidden Bow
Aura faint evocation; CL 3rd
Slot wrists; Price 3,800 gp (+1); 9,800 gp (+2); 19,800 gp (+3); 33,800 gp (+4); 51,800 gp (+5); Weight 1lbs.
These supple leather bracers look like those worn by an archer. When a command word is spoken, the bracers of the hidden bow summon forth a bow made of shadows. The bow summoned by the bracers of the hidden bow is properly sized for the wielder and of masterwork quality. If the wielder has a positive strength score, a composite bow is formed with a matching strength rating. Each bow also comes with an enhancement bonus, determined at creation that the bow bestows upon the arrows it fires. The enhancement bonus can be upgraded at later times, similar to normal weapons, but no weapon properties can be added.
No ammunition is needed to use the bow formed from the bracers of the hidden bow, as arrows made of the same shadowy material of the bow, are knocked every time the string is pulled. The arrows formed can only be used by the wielder, and disappear 1 round after fired. The effects of the bracers of the hidden bow last for 1 minute, before the bow must be summoned forth again.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon, shadow weapon, caster level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus Cost 1,900 gp (+1); 4,900 gp (+2); 9,900 gp (+3); 16,900 gp (+4); 25,900 gp (+5)
True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. [/quore] Funny how that works. They use a spell to create a magic item, even when the spell description specifically calls out the function they desire, is not possible. I know Paizo didn’t make this item, and is carry over from older editions, but I’m using it as justification for using a spell that creates melee weapons, to create a ranged weapon, in a magic item. I think it’s a much small discrepancy between spell descriptions, don’t you?
Now, I calculated the prices of a command word Shadow Weapon, then simply added the price of a +1 to + 5 weapon to the total. I also consider them to be similar abilities, but didn’t want to make the item too cheap for what it does, so it doesn’t get a discount.
Shadow Weapon: CL 1 * SL 1 * 1,800 = 1,800 gp + the price of the modifier (2,000; 8,000; 18,000; 32,000; 50,000)
*I played 3.5, but not older editions, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Ring was originally created with True Seeing, but then the X-ray line got added to the True Seeing spell in 3.0 to prevent people from justifying the use of True Seeing as x-ray vision.
Now, this isn't *quite* what you wanted, but it's both different, and the same; better and worse. It's different because it doesn't have the 3/day limit, nor a limited number of arrows, and doesn't last as long. Instead, it's a command word item, useable an infinite number of times per day, and a limitless supply of ammo.
It's better, because the Bonuses can scale, it's not too expensive (for what it does), and the strength rating will match the wielder. However, it's worse, because it's a command word item (requiring a standard action to use), that lasts for 1 minute (then it must be summoned again), and I limited the magical enhancements it could have otherwise every archer would use this item.
Over all, I think it will work for you. It's rule-legal as far as I can tell, and not too shabby of a deal. Granted, one of the downsides is the owner is effectively paying for Masterwork Composite Bow with a Strength rating of 14 I believe, with an enhancement modifier. Granted, there is no penalty for not having a high enough Strength score to match the Strength rating, but that's not an issue, as the bow is magic. If it breaks, summon a new one. However, a downside of a summoned bow, such as this, is that the magic item that summons it can be dispelled and turned off for a short time. It also won't function in an anti-magic area, and the bow will disappear if already summoned, if you were to enter such an area.
A magically summoned bow has it's advantages and it's disadvantages, but, short of really unique circumstances, I don't think the disadvantages out way the advantages.
Also, I like the fact the perfect spell for this job was named Shadow Weapon, when I stole the name Bracers of the Hidden Bow. Just fit the theme perfectly!
I hope this item works for you, if not, let me know and I'll see if I can modify it to fit your needs.
I posted this is in the Magic Items for the Savvy Adventurer thread when Sertaki asked for ideas on how to design your bow. I poked around for a little while, and came up with this in about an hour.
(Totally stole Sertaki's name BTW)
Bracers of the Hidden Bow
Aura faint evocation; CL 3rd
Slot wrists; Price 3,800 gp (+1); 9,800 gp (+2); 19,800 gp (+3); 33,800 gp (+4); 51,800 gp (+5); Weight 1lbs.These supple leather bracers look like those worn by an archer. When a command word is spoken, the bracers of the hidden bow summon forth a bow made of shadows. The bow summoned by the bracers of the hidden bow is properly sized for the wielder and of masterwork quality. If the wielder has a positive strength score, a composite bow is formed with a matching strength rating. Each bow also comes with an enhancement bonus, determined at creation that the bow bestows upon the arrows it fires. The enhancement bonus can be upgraded at later times, similar to normal weapons, but no weapon properties can be added.
No ammunition is needed to use the bow formed from the bracers of the hidden bow, as arrows made of the same shadowy material of the bow, are knocked every time the string is pulled. The arrows formed can only be used by the wielder, and disappear 1 round after fired. The effects of the bracers of the hidden bow last for 1 minute, before the bow must be summoned forth again.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon, shadow weapon, caster level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus Cost 1,900 gp (+1); 4,900 gp (+2); 9,900 gp (+3); 16,900 gp (+4); 25,900 gp (+5)** spoiler omitted **...
I like it, well done!