Hey guys, I had a question earlier about the use of Vicious Stomp, but this brought up a further inquiry.
I'm currently looking into playing a monk using some of the new feats from Ultimate Combat, and I noticed that Vicious Stomp allows me to get an attack of opportunity against anyone who goes prone adjacent to me. I was wondering how this might work with people I trip using Greater Trip, like if I had done so in the middle of a Flurry of Blows.
Basically, if I trip during a Flurry of Blows and possess both Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, will I receive one or two attacks of opportunity? Greater Trip says that the trip attack is what allows me to have the attack of opportunity. Vicious Stomp instead goes off whenever an adjacent foe goes prone. So if I trip someone with these two feats, do I get an attack of opportunity for a successful trip and then get a second for my foe going prone, or do I just get one? If so, which feat am I getting it from?
I should probably note that Vicious Stomp requires Combat Reflexes.
Thanks for the input fellas.
I think its a bit of a grey area, as you said, you could interpret it to come from two different sources, but you can just as easily argue that it's the same action that trigges both AoO and so you only get one.
Which one? I would say that's up to you, use whichever you want.
I guess strickly RAW it would be two different AoOs, but I really have my doubts it's RAI.
I would say it allows a seperate AoO RAI due to stomp having combat reflexes as a prereq. Its basicly saying "take 2 AoO's per turn when tripping"
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
You only get one AoO per opportunity. An enemy falling prone is one opportunity.
Well that's sort of the point of contention here. Is it really the same opportunity?
I could totally see an argument like this:
- You kick someone's feet away (Trip)
- He looses balance, and holes open in his defense and while he's off balance like that you punch him in the chest or stab him in the side (AoO for trip)
- He crashes on the floor, getting the wind knocked out of him (falling prone)
- While he's trying to gasp for air and not yet able to concentrate, you kick him while he's down (AoO for falling prone)
I don't know if its the case. Maybe it would make trip too overpowered, but then again, at this time you have pumped 6 feats into this, so really I see not the huge problem. (Combat Expertise, Impr. Trip, Greater Trip, Combat Reflexes, IUS, Vicious Stomp)
You turned your character in a tripping expert, you should profit from it.
Would be cool if a Dev can comment on it though.
Well said Allia. I believe you are correct.
Hey guys, I had a question earlier about the use of Vicious Stomp, but this brought up a further inquiry.
I'm currently looking into playing a monk using some of the new feats from Ultimate Combat, and I noticed that Vicious Stomp allows me to get an attack of opportunity against anyone who goes prone adjacent to me. I was wondering how this might work with people I trip using Greater Trip, like if I had done so in the middle of a Flurry of Blows.
Basically, if I trip during a Flurry of Blows and possess both Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp, will I receive one or two attacks of opportunity? Greater Trip says that the trip attack is what allows me to have the attack of opportunity. Vicious Stomp instead goes off whenever an adjacent foe goes prone. So if I trip someone with these two feats, do I get an attack of opportunity for a successful trip and then get a second for my foe going prone, or do I just get one? If so, which feat am I getting it from?
I should probably note that Vicious Stomp requires Combat Reflexes.
Thanks for the input fellas.
Here is another thread with the same question. I agree with Allia Thren. Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp have separate triggers and, as such, are not capitalizing on the same opportunity.
I guess Vicious Stomp is just a way to make tripping worthwhile for Monks, who get IUS for free and can't afford the Int for Greater Trip.
Just wanted to say something to that.
While it sounds like a good theory at first, it doesn't really make too much sense. Monks get Imp Trip as bonus feat, so they can circumvent the prereqs for that. Instead of now giving them a new feat, wouldn't it have made more sense to just add Greater Trip to the 10th level bonus feat list?Since they didn't do that, I can really only assume this wasn't just a "primarily monk gift", but actually meant to stack with Greater Trip.
Here is another thread with the same question. I agree with Allia Thren. Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp have separate triggers and, as such, are not capitalizing on the same opportunity.
Thanks, that thread was very enlightening(sorry for basically double-posting, I should become more confident with the search feature). That thread does present a new development to the argument, particularly if I have the Ki Throw feat in addition to all of these other feats.
Basically if I trip and have Ki Throw, do I get my AoO before I move my target with Ki Throw? If so, then I could definitely see getting an AoO for Greater Trip, moving with Ki Throw, and then getting a new AoO for Vicious Stomp.
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Since they didn't do that, I can really only assume this wasn't just a "primarily monk gift", but actually meant to stack with Greater Trip.
The fact that it requires an unarmed attack does say "primarily monk gift" to me. That they didn't put Greater Trip on the Monk list probably means they consider it overpowered without the Int investment; I guess one could argue that VS is less powerful in that it doesn't give another +2 to trip attempts (though it does work with friendly wizards and wolves and such).
Basically if I trip and have Ki Throw, do I get my AoO before I move my target with Ki Throw? If so, then I could definitely see getting an AoO for Greater Trip, moving with Ki Throw, and then getting a new AoO for Vicious Stomp.
That is too cool to not work. Initiate trip, elbow to the face, throw to the ground behind you, stomp on head. That is the kind of stuff monks should be doing all the time. :)