Holding two weapons, only using one at a time

[Jagyr Ebonwood]

A bard pc I'm working on now is focused on using a whip and Dazzling Display during combat to debuff and trip. However, I'd like to have something for him to fall back on if he gets stuck in melée and can't skirmish. I'll probably give him a falchion since he's half-Orc.

However, a thought occurred to me. What if he wielded a whip in one hand, and a short sword (call it a cutlass, since he's a pirate ;-)) in the other. He wouldn't attack with both on his turn, he'd just hold the cutlass in case he's forced into melée or if someone provokes an AoO from him (since you can't AoO with a whip).

That creates a problem though. Say he attacks someone with the whip on his turn. Later in the round, some mook provokes an AoO from him, and he hits her with his cutlass. What happens?
1) He takes twf penalties on both his attacks.
2) He takes an off-hand penalty on just the cutlass attack.
3) He takes no penalties on either attack.

I'm leaning towards option 2 right now, since 3 seems like it might be too generous in light of the twf rules, and 1 seems a little harsh (consider the same situation w/o the AoO happening - should he take twf penalties on just his whip if he doesn't do anyhting at all with the cutlass in that round?).

What are your thoughts?

[Quandary]

He wouldn't take any 2WF penalties.
AoO's are always resolved as single attacks using full BAB,
It doesn't matter which held weapon you are using, the idea of 'main hand' and 'off hand' only exist within the concept of 2WF, which is only a variant case of Iterative Full Attacks. Even if he used 2WF with both weapons (i.e. a 2WF Full Attack), his AoO's with either weapon (well, whips don't threaten, but ignoring that) are at full BAB.

Only other thing I can think of about this concept is that Casting Somatic spells requires slightly more planning if you routinely dual-wield. (Spiked Gauntlets for close melee avoids this)

[Jagyr Ebonwood]

Quandary, thanks for the quick response. That makes sense, and makes things easier.

But I can't believe I forgot about a free hand for somatic components! It's been a while since I played a caster of any sort. Thanks for the suggestion of spiked gauntlet, I think I'll go with that (though I still have the desire to write "cutlass" on my character sheet ;)).

[Mynameisjake]

It doesn't apply to your bard, but a spiked gauntlet, oddly enough, is just about the perfect weapon for an arcane bond, as well.

[Quasi-Human]

Follow-up question: When doing a round Iterative Full Attacks, can you have different weapons in each hand, and attack different targets with different weapons?

For example, I've got a cold-iron waraxe in one hand, and a warhammer in the other. Can I hammer the skeleton in front of me with one attack, and chop the demon to my left with the axe without any

I checked the combat rules, and there isn't anything that specifically prohibits this.

[Jagyr Ebonwood]

Quasi-Human wrote:

Follow-up question: When doing a round Iterative Full Attacks, can you have different weapons in each hand, and attack different targets with different weapons?

For example, I've got a cold-iron waraxe in one hand, and a warhammer in the other. Can I hammer the skeleton in front of me with one attack, and chop the demon to my left with the axe without any

I checked the combat rules, and there isn't anything that specifically prohibits this.

Here's my view:

Let's say you're an 11th level fighter, so you've got 3 iterative attacks (+11/+6/+1). You get one additional attack with the weapon in your off-hand. So, your attacks, before TWF penalties, look like this (with p indicating primary weapon and o indicating off-hand weapon): +11p/+11o/+6p/+1p.

Now, I don't have the rules right in front of me, but at least in my game, I wouldn't have a problem with you varying the order of attacks to go OPPP, PPPO, PPOP, etc.

I think I may be misinterpreting your question though - if you're asking "can you target different enemies with each attack in a full attack" then the answer is absolutely. Taking the same fighter from above, if you had 4 skeletons surrounding you, you could hit each one with a separate attack (or hit one of them with two attacks and two others with one attack each, or whatever other combo you want).

Another useful bit about full attacks - you can make a single attack at your highest attack bonus as your first action of the round. Then, based on the outcome of that attack you can decide to continue with the rest of your iterative attacks, or you can decide to stop attacking and do a move action instead.

[james maissen]

Quasi-Human wrote:

Follow-up question: When doing a round Iterative Full Attacks, can you have different weapons in each hand, and attack different targets with different weapons?

Yes you can and without penalty.

TWF is a fighting style that gives you an extra attack, much like rapid shot does for archery.

People confuse the Two Weapon Fighting style with the number of weapons they might have available to attack with or the number of weapons they happen to attack with in a round.

When you full attack with two weapons in such a way as to gain that extra attack, you take TWF penalties. It's the extra attack with the offhand weapon that matters here.

But you could full attack the following way:
0. PC starts with battle axe in two hands.
1. PC makes +11BAB attack at Foe. Hits and weapon dissolves.
2. PC quickdraws spear in two hands.
3. PC makes iterative (+6 base) attack at foe. Hits and does no damage.
4. PC drops spear.
5. PC quickdraws greatclub.
6. PC makes final iterative (+1 base) attack at foe. Misses.

Here the PC is fighting with 3 weapons during his full attack. The situation could have been altered to have the PC start with a short sword in his left hand and at 2 draw a shortspear into his right, then at 5 quickdraw a one-handed club.

In either case the TWF rules are not applying here as the PC is not trying to gain an extra attack (say with that short sword, or in the original case say with armor spikes or an unarmed strike).

-James