
Sleep-Walker |
Hi.
This is the first time I am posting here.
I am having issues in a campaign with mending and make whole.
I keep finding broken objects and being told that mending and make whole spells are not able to mend them.
I understand why the referee is doing this, it is because his scenes are very descriptive and he wants to be able to describe aged tapestries or rusted disintegrating armour [for example] that we cannot mend so we do not end up with more treasure than he had planned.
So given that I understand the referee’s rulings and I am not trying to break the system I want to understand what other people think Mending and Make Whole are able to do.
Can either spell repair something that is missing a piece? Lets say a mug with a chip in it, the material that made up the chip is missing, so can either spell fix that chip?
Can either spell repair decay/rust/erosion etc.
Can either spell repair burns [chemical or fire]?
Can either spell fix shattered/crushed objects?
Can either spell fix disintegrated objects?
Can either spell restore something turned to rust by the spell rusting grasp or by a rust monster [before the rust monster has eaten the rust]?
My referee feels that almost all of those effects can only really be remedied by the fabricate spell, but fabricate doesn’t do it for me purely because in my opinion fabricate is recreating the item and I don’t want to recreate the item I want to fix the broken thing I have in my hands.
If the character takes some damage, he can be healed with heal spells. If an object takes some damage it can be fixed with med/make whole. If a character is destroyed by acid/fire etc he can be resurrected. How do I fix/restore a destroyed piece of equipment.
I think the problem here is that the Pathfinder game rules provide very little information about Mending, Make Whole, and the Broken condition for equipment. I understand why this is, but it is frustrating in this instance.

![]() |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I think the problem is that in earlier editions of the game mending and make whole specifically did NOT allow you to fix much. They were pretty useless spells. With Pathfinder, we changed things around so that they work a lot better. Especially when it comes to fixing magic items—a broken magic item being harder and more debilitating to a high-level character than being killed is silly. Allowing make whole to fix things is good for the game.
I would ask your GM to re-look at both of these spells. They're pretty cut and dry about how they can fix things; there's actual rules in there.
On the other hand, if your GM prefers to run a game where it's a lot tougher to fix things, he should probably consider just taking the mending and make whole spells out of the game entirely for his game. Because it's worse to have useless and misleading spells than none at all.
The "Broken" condition is summarized pretty well on page 565–566 of the rulebook. A broken object still functions, just not as well. A destroyed object is something that's been utterly ruined; being destroyed is worse than being broken. They're not synonyms when it comes to the rules.

Sleep-Walker |
So in your opinion, all the damage types described could be fixed through Make Whole? Even Rust/Disintegration?
I agree with the referee that there is a point when the object is too far gone for either of those spells, for instance a wand is thrown on a fire, or a metal sword is consumed by a rust monster and so on. We are disagreeing about where that point comes.
At what point should neither spell be able to help?
Thanks for your extremely prompt response.

![]() |

Mending can fix broken objects, even magical, and Make Whole can fix destroyed objects. As far as I can tell it doesn't really matter what source caused the damage, Make Whole can fix it. In one of my 3.5 campaigns, we successfully stopped a very powerful demon from freeing itself from it's bindings, and the party's lawful good monks destroyed the book that contained the information of how to release/summon said demon. So, me and the one of the other party members took the shreds of the book and had someone cast Make Whole on it, and then we took out one of the pages with vital information to complete the ritual, thereby causing a huge backlash should anyone try. Then we sold it to a cult and made a fortune.
Make Whole is a hugely unappreciated spell, IMHO

Caepio Alazario |

Having reviewed Mending and Make Whole, my attention is drawn to two key sentences in Mending's description (which is largely shared with Make Whole). 1) "All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function." 2) "This spell has no effect on objects that have been warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage done to such items."
Think of Mending as the Cure spell of the construct world; it can put things back together still-functioning pieces of an item, much like a cure spell helps piece together the fighter after he survives a fight. If the fighter's dead (just as an item goes from Broken to scrap metal), a cure spell can't help him. Make Whole is a bit more like raise dead, allowing a completely destroyed item to return to the world of the magically "living." Just like Raise Dead, I see Make Whole requiring viable "body" - the vast majority of the remains of the item in as close to the same condition as it was upon being destroyed. Since the Destroyed is not defined too clearly, I gather any form of destruction can be repaired so long as it holds to the above guidelines.
These guidelines, I feel, help to avoid abuse in the same way Resurrection was stereotypically used:
Fighter: Oh no! A dragon! This could be tough...
Cleric: Cut off one of your fingers, then, so I can resurrect you after the fight.
I would rather avoid generations of adventurers with Doomblades of Omni-Slaying +5 all sawing off a small piece of the hilt so as to Make [it] Whole again in case of a sundering disintegration spell cast upon it during a windstorm.
All of this said, I would say that Mending only rebinds magic and items that are in whole pieces that are easily visible to the naked eye or have a largely undamaged core (Broken). There's already the limitation in the spell description for magical items, and for non-magical items it should be limited to mundane wear and breaks that somebody could put together with a few rounds and an ounce of sovereign glue. For the most part, Mending undoes physical changes to an item, with recent rust damage and incomplete burning of organic items being exceptions.
Make Whole can affect items that have undergone intense chemical changes, meaning that fully rusted and disintegrated items can be repaired. Based on my understanding as above, the repairs need to be performed with almost all of the former item present, even if that involves a pile of dust - it had better be the entire pile.
Can either spell repair decay/rust/erosion etc.: Mending may be able to clean up some of the rust and decay in a prestidigitation-like way, but it won't replace lost parts. Unless the decayed material and rust have all collected next to the former item in sealed environment, Make Whole is unlikely to fare too much better. In many dungeons, there's a decent chance that wind has blown away the rusted/decayed/eroded portions, an ooze has rolled over them, or some dweller has swept within the past century. On the other hand, a suit of full plate rusting from the waist down can still be salvaged and sold piecemeal for a small profit.
Can either spell repair burns [chemical or fire]?: Because Mending can undo most reasonable damage that would only result in the Broken condition, limited amounts of rust or fire damage can be repaired to a metal or wooden item. Even though I state above that all pieces should be present, for a PC casting Mending on a magical club that got singed a few hit points shy of charcoal, I think that a DM should overlook material considerations (like ash) for timely use of Mending. With putting together ancient items that burned, again be sure that you have all of the parts before casting Make Whole.
Can either spell fix shattered/crushed objects?: Mending won't help here, but Make Whole can piece things together so long as you're sure you have almost all of the pieces/powder.
Can either spell fix disintegrated objects?: As the previous point.
Can either spell restore something turned to rust by the spell rusting grasp or by a rust monster [before the rust monster has eaten the rust]?: Because destroyed is so vague, it looks like items can be revived despite total annihilation by rust monster. As you point out, make sure it doesn't sneak a quick snack before combat is over.

![]() |

So in your opinion, all the damage types described could be fixed through Make Whole? Even Rust/Disintegration?
I agree with the referee that there is a point when the object is too far gone for either of those spells, for instance a wand is thrown on a fire, or a metal sword is consumed by a rust monster and so on. We are disagreeing about where that point comes.
At what point should neither spell be able to help?
Thanks for your extremely prompt response.
Disintegrate is probably a point-of-no-return for an item IF it took enough damage to be destroyed.
But I'd say that rust is something that make whole can fix if the caster's high enough level.
In the end, destroying a PC's gear is kinda a jerk move. If the problem is that the GM has realized he's given out too much treasure, then that's one thing. But if the problem is that the GM is just breaking the player's toys because he's using monsters like rust monsters or bebiliths or things that break stuff, then make whole should do it's thing.

Sleep-Walker |
The referee isn't breaking the players toys, but the players myself in particular are intersted in restoring and mending artifacts found regardless of their age and condition. The referee is definately not being a jerk, although I have played under referees who have done that in the past.
These really are the magic lines:
1) "All of the pieces of an object must be present for this spell to function."
Dire Kumquat says a number of times that he thinks that all the pieces (more or less) have to be there. But under a RAW examination if even a chip from a cup is missing then the spell cannot work?
But if a tiny missing splinter can stop a wooden items being mended does the spell not become pointless? Or should mending/make whole work but just have the object miss that splinter when it is reformed.
2) "This spell has no effect on objects that have been warped or otherwise transmuted, but it can still repair damage done to such items."
Burning an item, corroding it with acid, rusting it, eroding it, or disintegrating it do transmute the object into something else be it ash/rush/dust etc so should make whole be able to help.
Or would using that understanding of transmutation make the spells useless.
I would really have liked to have seen Make Whole have it's own decription rather than "see mending", because while mending would need all the pieces to put a broken plate back together I think make whole would be able to deal with a few missing shards.
For this campaign I think I need a spell which can regrow/reform an object even if it is missing say 10% of its mass. If this were my campaign I would think that Make whole could do that. What does everyone else think?

![]() |

See, all of the functions you list aren't transmutations (barring Disintegration)... they're damage, which the spell fully covers. What it is saying is that if the form has been changed without inflicting harm on the object in question, Make Whole does nothing (ie. does not dispel Warp Wood, Stone Shape, Transmute Rock to Mud, ect).
Bottom Line- If the object has been destroyed/broken by damage, Make Whole and Mending can fix it.

Sleep-Walker |
Just for the record I agree, I am now playing devils advocate.
•transmute - To change, transform or convert one thing to another, or from one state or form to another; To change, transform or convert to another, or from one state or form to another
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transmute
Such as Wood to Ash, Metal to Rust.
And even if it is damage, RAW, Make Whole only repairs hit point damage if cast on a construct

cwslyclgh |

The referee isn't breaking the players toys, but the players myself in particular are intersted in restoring and mending artifacts found regardless of their age and condition.
while I can see that working with artifacts in the archaeological sense... I would not allow make whole or mending to restore a destroyed artifact in the mega-powerful magic item sense (or if I did it would simply be a non-magical shell, although for most artifacts it is moot point in most campaigns as you would need a caster level in the mid thirties or higher to restore the magic of most artifact in the core rulebook).

Sleep-Walker |
Backtrack
I am really sorry I have a masters degreee in classics and archeology
Artifacts are anything found in ancient sites to me not all power magic items
So a rusted dagger, an old painting, a small statue that has been under water for a decade, a childs toy that has rotted in garbage for years. etc
I do not mean artifacts as in Sphere of Annihalation.

mdt |

Mend and Make Whole can get fuzzy.
In my own games, no object can benefit from a Mend spell more than once per day (for the same reason they got rid of the 0 level cure spells).
I allow Mend to work on anything that is just damaged, but has at least 1 hit point remaining. When it comes to larger objects (say, a wall), you can cast mend one time per square foot. So, you basically can spend all day doing minor repairs on a broken down wall.
If the object in question has broken down from time (such as rust, erosion, etc) then Mend doesn't work. The item isn't damaged so much as just old and run down. So that ancient wall or portcullis or etc that was abandoned 300 years ago can't be fixed with mend (although if you hit it with a hammer and knock a chunk out, you can mend that).
Make Whole on the other hand, will work on anything that is still there. I require at least 50% of the original item for it to work though (avoids that whole cut off the tip of the magic sword so you can clone it issue).
For large objects, such as walls, portcullis's etc, I let Make Whole work on a 5 foot cube. So, for example, if you are wanting to partially rebuild an old wall (to make a defensible position), you can cast it on a 5x5x5 cube and if the section of wall that was there is at least 50% present it is repaired to good as new (even if it was mostly pebbles at the moment).
I think this is a good compromise, and hits the spirit of the spells without breaking the game.

lastblacknight |
For large objects, such as walls, portcullis's etc, I let Make Whole work on a 5 foot cube. So, for example, if you are wanting to partially rebuild an old wall (to make a defensible position), you can cast it on a 5x5x5 cube and if the section of wall that was there is at least 50% present it is repaired to good as new (even if it was mostly pebbles at the moment).
It's 10ft Cube per Lvl, (Core, p311)
How come you went 5ft Cube?
I have allowed a character to rebuild a house, it lost a wall when a big bad came through it. (It was non-magical, added to the flavour and was done after the combat. It repaired a poor souls house and left the town feeling positive towards the PC's - they killed the beast attacking the town and left the town in better condition than they had found it). -
(3.5 Whispers Of The Vampire's Blade)

dave d |

I had a character use a simple mend for great effect.
"The crushed crown is worth 329gp."
"I cast mending..."
(Carp) "The fixed crown is now worth 3,290gp."
Even mending can be useful.
It always depends on the DM, but if it is a static environment, you should be able to fix things with mending and make whole.
Imagine going to an ancient castle - could everything be restored?
A deteriorated silk dress in a drawer is worth zero, but would a mend make it worth 800gp again since it is almost a work of art? It wouldn't have many hps. As a DM, I would allow anything my players were able to utilize and be creative about. If they stop having fun, it's time for 1st levels in a world where nothing is damaged/broken.

2bz2p |

Mend and Make Whole can get fuzzy.
In my own games, no object can benefit from a Mend spell more than once per day (for the same reason they got rid of the 0 level cure spells).
This is SO RIGHT, and should be in an errata to become official. One of the benefits of Construction feats is the ability to repair magic armor or weapons or items (depending on the feat). But if your +1 sword was damaged to broken or down to 1 or 2 HPs, the 5th level magic user, cleric or bard could take a mending and fix it in less than a minute. I'm not against the spell working to repair magic items that you are high enough level to create, but 1d4 a DAY seems right, not 10d4 a minute.

Mark Hoover 330 |
So Mending takes 10 minutes to cast, so fixing an item with multiple castings could dozens of minutes, maybe even an hour; trivial during downtime but potentially life-endangering if you're stuck in a dungeon or something.
Also Mending fixes items based on weight, specifically 1 LB/level. A Wizard 5 casting Mending on a sword that weighed 6 lbs or more will do nothing, no matter how many times they cast the spell.
Make Whole and Greater Make Whole are what we want to use on large, heavy, or otherwise severely damaged items. They still both take 10 minutes/level but standard Make Whole affects an item of any weight that is 10 cubic foot/level while Greater ignores size and goes back to weight, affecting 5 lbs/level.
Here's the thing though: all 3 spells suffer from needing every piece of the item in order to repair it. Mending has that in it's wording, Make Whole says that it functions like Mending except for certain exceptions, none of which remove the needing all pieces restriction. Greater Make Whole notes that, with a few exceptions (none of which removes the needing all pieces restriction) the spell functions like Make Whole.
So the GM can rule, whenever they'd like, that a miniscule chip of an item they don't want repaired was lost when the item was broken. The piece might be as tiny as half a fingernail worth but since it is not present when trying to Mend/Make Whole/Greater Make Whole, the spell fails.
To combat this a PC could ALSO have prepped the Fabricate spell. Be ready to make a Craft skill check to fabricate the appropriate piece to the exact specifications of the item to be repaired though. Also, the GM could rule that the fabricated piece wasn't part of the original so the Mending/Make Whole/Greater Make Whole spell STILL doesn't work, but you might still try.
All of this is a dark world scenario where the GM doesn't want you to use simple spells to overbalance WBL.
As I run a lighter world setting in all my games, I generally don't mind how much you use Mending/Make Whole/Greater Make Whole to hoard items. For one, you need to remember to have the spell(s) either prepped or in an item. Then you need the time to cast them. After that, you need to have the item to be repaired fit into the weight or size restrictions your level can affect. Finally, once repaired you need to have some way of transporting said items.
All of that for items left to rot in ancient dungeons, wilderness areas, ruins, crypts, etc. These items may not always have recoverable magic properties; maybe they're just really old. Also if they're non-masterwork or your Appraise skill doesn't suggest the item is of Masterwork quality or otherwise valuable, do you really WANT to repair it?
Think about it; with all of these strictures and hoops to jump through, is any player really incentivized to abuse the spamming of Mending all day?
"Oh Boy!" the level 1 wizard thinks, "I took Mending as one of my Cantrips today! Now we're headed down into this dungeon. Hopefully every old, broken item we find down here only weighs one pound, is fully intact, just broken, and if repaired worth SERIOUS coin! I'm gonna be RICH!" Yeah... I doubt it.
Now one area where Mending can get exploited is something I let a player do years ago. He was playing a Wizard traveling with a ranger in the party, a ranger mainly focused on archery. The ranger had a number of Cold Iron arrows alongside her normal ones, and as time went on she bought whatever exotic ammo she could.
The player of the Wizard asked me up front if he could Arcane Mark all of the ranger's ammo, and of course I said sure. After that he made a point of ALWAYS having Detect Magic and Mending, later Make Whole, either prepped for the day or on the scrolls he was writing.
After every fight the Wizard would go around recovering every broken or destroyed piece of ammo he could find, using Detect Magic to locate the Arcane Mark on some he couldn't find with a simple Perception check. He then meticulously repaired every single bit of that ammo whenever the party had 10 minutes or more of Downtime..
Remember: if the ranger fired 20 arrows over the course of 10 small fights, and approximately 8 of these missed their targets, that means that even if I ruled all of them only Broken, not Destroyed, and all pieces found for every arrow, that means 10 castings of Mending, or 100 minutes of spellcasting, needed by the Wizard to fix them. All of that for saving, say, 5 SP to 2 GP.
Yeah... I'm fine handwaving that.

Mark Hoover 330 |
Oh, and one other thing for fixing old items using spells: let's not forget Prestidigitation. Tarnish or patina, mold damage, dampness, weird smells; all of these that could be "cleaned" off an item could indeed be removed from something you're fixing up with Mending/Make Whole/Greater Make Whole. At the GM's discretion, you might also use Prestidigitation to make very minor touch ups like re-coloring or improving the luster of an item.
For example if a Wizard 5 wanted to repair a 5 lb tapestry, a wall hanging roughly 5' x 10' they found in a dungeon and sell it for profit they might remove rips and tears through Mending, then with multiple castings of Prestidigitation dust, clean, and de-odorize the hanging as well as bringing the dingy colors of the patterns back to when it was brand new. 15 minutes of spellcasting and concentration with 2 0 level spells but the result is an extra art object or masterwork item to either sell back in town or enchant using Craft Wondrous Item.