I have plenty of last-minute shopping to do, which I addressed in-character by asking what was needed to buy. Obivously, I'll compile a list of "stuff" and see how much it'll cost.
I'm not particularly worried about weight-encumbrance, thankfully. :D
Edmund can chip in for a few coils of rope, but someone else will have to carry it.
I would help you carry stuff, but at 1' 10" and 27 lbs with the strength of about a 7 year old, I doubt it would really help.
Maybe we can save on a grappling hook by using Qui:-)
I have fifty feet hemp and hook. I thought the first dungeon did not need so much rope?
The first dungeon needs rope because it's suicide and we may as well hang ourselves!
I need a rank in climb to really get a decent bonus. I do have a climb speed of 20 though.
OK, compiled my shopping list (costs and weights listed are totaled per item):
Backpack (2gp, 2lbs)
Bedroll (0.1gp, 5lbs)
Blanket (0.2gp, 1lbs)
Flint and steel (1gp, 0lbs)
Grappling hook (2) (2gp, 8lbs)
Hammer (2) (1gp, 4lbs)
Iron spike (3) (0.15gp, 3lbs)
Lamp, common (0.1gp, 1lbs)
Oil (5) (1-pint flask) (0.5gp, 5lbs)
Piton (10) (1gp, 5lbs)
Pot, iron (0.8gp, 4lbs)
Pouch, belt (1gp, 0.5lbs)
Rations, trail (per day) (3) (1.5gp, 3lbs)
Rope, hemp (50 ft.) (2) (2gp, 20lbs)
Sack (3) (0.3gp, 1.5lbs)
Torch (10) (0.1gp, 10lbs)
Waterskin (2) (2gp, 8lbs)
Whetstone (0.02gp, 1lbs)
I still have 53 lbs of gear I can carry before hitting Heavy Encumbrance if people want to purchase anything else they think we'll need and can afford. Just remember that I'll be carrying most all of it in/on my backpack so if I lose it we're scrod.
You may want to save some carrying capacity for loot too!
I'll throw another 7 days of trail rations in there.
Loot?
OK, 7 more days' trail rations added.
Hey, you can carry me. Of course, I am one of those rare small races with 30' movement, so that probably will not help much.
Probably not, since I'm down to 20' move.
I'll finish my equipment list tonight and see how much extra gear I can carry.
175 gp doesn't go as far as it used to. Would have liked mwork thieves tools.
One last thing to straighten out. Marching Order
I need a single file and 2 wide formations. Include any gaps between members if applicable.
Single - Qui, Jokbur, Hermann, Edmund, Ariella, Jonas
Double Qui/Jokbur, Edmund/Hermann, Ariella/Jonas
This is my vote.
The two wide was:
Jokbur - Qui
Edmund - Hermann
Jonas - Ariella
The single wide:
How about?
Jokbur
Hermann
Edmund
Ariella
Jonas
Qui
Depends on whether you want me as scout or rear protection. I do not have sneak damage, so I am good either way.
Id switch Ariela and Edmund. That way the wizard is protected best and the entire party is within 5' step range of a healer.
Single - Qui, Jokbur, Hermann, Edmund, Ariella, Jonas
Double Qui/Jokbur, Edmund/Hermann, Ariella/Jonas
This is my vote.
With Qui's awesome AC this makes sense. How can frogs be so awesome?
With Qui's awesome AC this makes sense. How can frogs be so awesome?Single - Qui, Jokbur, Hermann, Edmund, Ariella, Jonas
Double Qui/Jokbur, Edmund/Hermann, Ariella/Jonas
This is my vote.
'Cause we know how to hop to it.
GM, would you have any problem with me dropping Jonas' Charisma to 17 and raising his Int to 13?
It's the same point buy. I'd like Jonas to be smarter than his stats are telling me he is.
I am planning on taking Combat Expertise --> Butterfly Sting if that is one of the reasons for increasing your Int. Qui does decent damage, but if I can transfer hits to someone with a great axe or heavy pick, then damage is real fun.
Jonas, fine by me
My reasons aren't feat related. I'm going Bodyguard/In Harm's Way. I won't have feats to spare or worry about until about 9th level.
I just want to be able to have Jonas think his way out of problems without worrying if im playing his stats right.
I can't move my character on the map.
Probably on purpose, a lot of DMs do it themselves to keep timelines in place. For instance if you make an agressive action he'll probably roll initiative. In which case you may or may not act first. It's easier for the DM to make sure everything is happening in the right order and in the right place if only he can move the pieces. That's how I do it in 90%+ of my games anyway.
Correct I will be doing your actions at the proper time. When you post you can just tell me where you are going (I just realized I forgot to put co-ordinates on the map). If your intentions are not to give up your money and flee I will roll for initiative and get combat rolling ;)
If your intentions are not to give up your money and flee...
<---
I'd like to move 20' to space 9G (by moving diagonally through Edmund's square)
OK, question on charge out of curiosity since it's been resolved in-game anyways:
PRD says:
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge.
Is it legal to move to F12 and down column 12 from there, or must the charge be down column 11? The "distance" is 6 squares for either path by how we count movement.
I would say yes, that's legal. You can start your movement from any square adjacent to you, and if you draw a straight line from the corner of your square to the corner of gnoll 2's square it's unhindered. I however am not the DM, his game his call.
I predict at level 2 Qui and I will both be hoping for access to mage armor. With the lack of wands, we may be begging Edmund to take it at level 3.
Hmmm, with mage armor I will be AC23, 26 with Crane Style and fighting defensively. Not bad.
Just letting everyone know that I'm gonna be on vacation from the 27th-6th. I'll have access to the internet, but I probably won't have much posting time. Feel free to DMPC me as needed to move things along.
I'm on vacation, er, I mean dying, until someone heals me. Oooh, look at all the pretty flies, I must be in froggy heaven.
Appears I am 2 for 2 on Tirion right now.
That's ok, I have 12 or 13 other characters to keep running while my ones in your campaigns take naps. At least I have stabilized in the other one.
Didn't use my hammer because it's a reach weapon (and I forgot about my armor spikes).
I didn't stand over Qui because when you heal him and wake him up all of a sudden we'll be Squeezing until one of us can move. Being Prone with Squeezing penalties to AC might make Qui an unmissable target.
Fair points. Coulda still used the hammer on #1 then :P
I didn't realize it was a reach weapon. In any case my main point is focusing fire whenever possible. Especially since the GM is so kind to keep a damage tally for us on the left of the board.
Since Tactics were brought up, lets start that discussion-
{spoilers are just to avoid Wall of Text syndrome)
Ariella's right, readied actions are the way to go. In ranged fights we all want to be moving forward to close distance. In melee fights we want to let them come to us, and make them come through a hail of arrows and spells on their way. We don't have multiple attacks yet, but once we do this will be especially important.
I think we're doing it wrong.
I see a lot of games where the "scout" characters are up front and the heavies end up toward the back. This is backwards.
The only time the scouts should be in front is if they are actively stealthed and are ahead of the main group by 20 feet or more. If the group isn't being stealthy, the people who should be in front are the folks with the heavy armor.
The reason for that isn't really because the heavies have better AC and HP (though they often do), it's because they are slow.
Fast characters can move from the back lines into flanking positions far easier than slow characters. If the fast characters are locked into melee because they were in front, it's harder for them to move to where they are needed most. Likewise, heavies who were in the back are going to take a lot more time to get into those needed flanking spots.
If the enemy charges us, blunts themselves on the heavies and is locked in melee, the fast characters have much easier time moving in behind them and stabbing away.
IMO, our party marching order should be
(2x2)
Hermann and Jonas in front
Ariella and Edmund in the middle
Jokbur and Qui in the back (or stealthed a ways ahead)
or
(single file)
Hermann
Jonas
Edmund
Ariella
Jokbur
Qui
It's not a big deal yet, but it's worth mentioning since we're on the subject-
We need to help our Wizard as much as possible. His best spells are going to effect multiple targets, including us if we're in the wrong places. For example, right now, we're all mixed up with the baddies. That hinders Edmund's tactical choices a lot.
Whenever possible we want to separate ourselves and maintain a defensive line so that Edmund can place his AoE just in front of us.
Fair points. Coulda still used the hammer on #1 then :P
I didn't realize it was a reach weapon. In any case my main point is focusing fire whenever possible. Especially since the GM is so kind to keep a damage tally for us on the left of the board.
You're right. I was mostly hoping to kill #3 so you wouldn't have to worry about Qui getting smacked down again right after you heal him, but I missed. :(
the GM is so kind to keep a damage tally for us on the left of the board.
That is as much or more for me than you guys! When I first started I was getting confused on how much each and didn't always have my notes.
These are all great suggestions. Here are a few more.
Always keep a reserve, could be a character, could be an expendable resource, and send that reserve in to wherever we are clearly winning to break the enemy lines.
When somebody starts taking hits, they need to go into defensive mode (not applicable here since Qui went completely down on the first hit, but later it will matter).
Never create a salient (forward bulge in our line), even just a single person, unless that person can stand to get surrounded. As Jonas said, we need to have our fast people in the rear so they can quickly advance to our flanks, making a "C" shape to our line. When we have a wide open space like this, a "C" shape is perfect, forcing the enemy to spread out to engage all of us, and if they stick together, we can wrap around them. Plus there's no way they can flank any of us unless they break through the line. Edmund's tripping missiles are supposed to be pretty good at this level (a +6 trip modifier at 1st level is not bad at all, he's just been rolling stupid low).
However, here's an example of where a salient can work in our favour. In GM Blood's other game I play in, we were facing upwards of a dozen skellies, many of whom had cover down various hallways and around corners from the energy channeling cleric. I had my monk with really good AC dash out into the middle of a room and go total defense on the skellies. Figuring they weren't hitting her on anything less than an 18, she took a hit or two, but drew all 12 skellies into the channel AoE, then the party moved in on all the weakened skellies and crushed them quickly (or at least would have if Blood hadn't thrown in a pile of tiefling guards, human cultists, and a dire boar - man that was an epic fight).
While a good initiative is nice, going first doesn't mean always going first. The best part about getting the good initiative is that it gives you options, like the under-utilized delaying action. Edmund does have an AoE spell currently: grease, which if we hadn't charged in, and he had won a bit more initiative, he could have thrown down in front of our leaders, let the gnolls charge in, and then the fast guys in the rear, who have been delaying, move around to the flanks to start putting the hurt down on the gnolls, some of whom have hopefully slipped in the puddle of grease.
However, no plan survives contact with the enemy. When somebody goes down, the group needs to decide, "Is this TPK territory?" If it is a serious possibility, then we may need to make the difficult decision of abandoning one or more characters to preserve the party as a whole. However, I don't think this is really TPK territory unless things start to go really badly with the dice, so in this case, we swarm to protect our fallen, throw all resources that we can afford, and expect to nova the encounter to save our comrade (especially here where barring a random encounter with a wandering monster, we can purposely make this our only encounter for the day), staying out of the Mouth of Doom until we're all recovered and Qui has been healed up.
I do apologize for Edmund's so far uselessness. The dice should turn around for him soon.
Agreed on all counts. Another thing I would mention is be aware who's going when in general. Hermann, Qui and Jonas should almost always be delaying until after Jokbur and I go, if only just to give us that opening shot without the -4 for shooting into melee. Or if Qui with his high initiative is going before the enemies and Jonas and Hermann don't go until after, they should rig it by whoever delaying until they can all move together so none of them get flanked and ganked.
This fight is gonna be fine. We just need Hermann to get a couple more good to-hit rolls. Tactics is a complex thing that never has a perfect answer. But we should all be on the same page, so it's good we're talking about it. If we function as a team instead of individuals we'll live a lot longer.
Edit:Just saw gameplay. I'm not gonna heal you again unless you are literally going to die Qui. I only have one more level 1 spell for the day and I can't channel healing with us all mixed in with them. I'll get you after the fights over, unless you get to -13 and are still bleeding.
Sorry, as I said, my intention was not to stand until everyone had gone, figured that my round 2 action had passed as I was unconscious. I just screwed up and forgot to type this in. Whether I went before Edmund or right before the gnolls made no difference from an initiative point, but a big difference in the number of AoO I would take.
Well let's consider this our tuneup fight. We will definitely spending another gp each in the inn tonight and going over what we could have done better (the military calls this a hotwash). Hotwash
As for marching order, if there is a chance to gain surprise, we will always have the scouts out. But, if there is no chance, heavy armor with reach weapons up front is definitely indicated.
I do not know the required distance to move ahead of heavy armor to avoid the armored guys blowing your stealth. Somehow 60 feet seems the distance we used back in the old days from the wording in the description for elven stealth.
From these discussions one thing is clear, this group has the capability to use top notch tactics when we get to know and rely on each others abilities. Having two fighters with reach weapons will be a huge advantage in our encounters. We can toss spells and arrows to our hearts content behind our two 'gardeners'.
My plan is to be fast and hard to hit - evasion, good AC, decent HP. I will be using Butterfly Sting as soon as I can get it so that I can transfer my Keen Scimitar crits to the fighters with the x3 and x4 weapons.
Ok, so just to keep it consistent forward I want to ask everyone's preference.
Normally when someone goes into negatives then healed back to positive during the fight I put them into "Delay" so they can go as soon as they wake up. (assuming they missed a turn).
Is the preference to go during their next regular spot or to be delayed so they can go when restored?
Doesn't matter either way to me, just want to keep it consistent going forward.
My vote is to have people always go in their slot unless they post they are delaying and/or going immediately. (Ok, so I have a bias in this case, but this seems the fairest.) In other words, unless you tell the DM you want to switch, then you just stay in your init slot.