How is the exemplar performing? Is it fun? What are some good builds?
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Its a pretty good class. Definitely first tier for martials, about on par with a barbarian but still probably not as good as a fighter.
Lots of options in the build so they don't all seem absolutely identical. Although there are definitely some choices taken much more than others (for example, I think I've yet to see an Exemplar who did NOT take Radiant at level 3).
The player has to pay attention to the game and doesn't fall into the "All my rounds are identical" trap. Playing Mini Bard with Victors wreath is popular
The Archetype is silly powerful and will be taken by just about every martial in existence if allowed (and probably many others as well). Not game breakingly good but way better than any alternative for almost all characters good
The archetype is good? Does it give you the best abilities or something?
The archetype is the single strongest level 2 feat for a character who wants to do damage with a weapon. It's one feat for a straight scaling damage boost (and might solve other problems, like how the sheath precludes the need for a returning rune on a thrown build.)
It's like how almost every martial in PF1 would take Power Attack or Piranha Strike because of course you want to do more damage.
You get a full power Ikon for one feat, which you still need to put a spark into by spending one action at the beginning of combat, but it adds 1-3 spirit damage per weapon die (depending on which one) for the remainder of combat if you do that.
You could alternatively take Victor's Wreath which gives you and everybody within 15' +1 to hit once you activate it (redundant if there's a bard in the party but maybe there isn't.)
That's interesting. So to min-max, you make a fighter then get a weapon ikon.
Does the Exemplar itself have any standout feats or builds?
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That's interesting. So to min-max, you make a fighter then get a weapon ikon.
Does the Exemplar itself have any standout feats or builds?
I think a very strong case can be made that the strongest use would be a rogue with a Shadow Sheath Ikon. It is pretty obvious that Shadow Sheathe is intended for thrown attacks only but the wording makes crystal clear that it works for melee attacks as well.
The exemplar has a weirdly small number of feats because so much of the class budget is in things like Ikons and Epithets.
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The archetype is the single strongest level 2 feat for a character who wants to do damage with a weapon. It's one feat for a straight scaling damage boost (and might solve other problems, like how the sheath precludes the need for a returning rune on a thrown build.)
It's like how almost every martial in PF1 would take Power Attack or Piranha Strike because of course you want to do more damage.
You get a full power Ikon for one feat, which you still need to put a spark into by spending one action at the beginning of combat, but it adds 1-3 spirit damage per weapon die (depending on which one) for the remainder of combat if you do that.
You could alternatively take Victor's Wreath which gives you and everybody within 15' +1 to hit once you activate it (redundant if there's a bard in the party but maybe there isn't.)
You play at high level a lot. The archetype gets even better at high levels as they get access to more than 1 Ikon and can then switch your spark from one Ikon to the other.
The archetype is the single strongest level 2 feat for a character who wants to do damage with a weapon. It's one feat for a straight scaling damage boost (and might solve other problems, like how the sheath precludes the need for a returning rune on a thrown build.)
It's like how almost every martial in PF1 would take Power Attack or Piranha Strike because of course you want to do more damage.
You get a full power Ikon for one feat, which you still need to put a spark into by spending one action at the beginning of combat, but it adds 1-3 spirit damage per weapon die (depending on which one) for the remainder of combat if you do that.
You could alternatively take Victor's Wreath which gives you and everybody within 15' +1 to hit once you activate it (redundant if there's a bard in the party but maybe there isn't.)
You don't need to put a spark in your ikon at the start of combat- You can have it in during exploration mode. Full class exemplars can change the ikon their spark is in at the start of combat to adapt to situations (or if one of your ikons is mostly for exploration), but if you only have one ikon, you don't need to do that.
The "disadvantage" of the Archetype is since you only get one ikon, if you transcend your ikon you can't move it into another ikon (unless you've taken the twelfth level feet of course), so you're no longer gettinf an immenence (passive) and have to use an action just to move your spark into your ikon (wherease exemplar could instead transcend the second ikon and move back to the first one).
The class itself is kind of just an average martial.
The archetype is at its strongest in any game that doesn't progress past level 4 where you take it at second level or at first with ancient elf. For longer or higher level games, there are better archetypes available (like champion), but much like the pre-nerf psychic, you eventually slam it on every character in a free archetype game or at level 9 with multitalented. The archetype is also useful as a build enabler with stuff like shadow sheath.
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Currently playing an Exemplar with Scar of the Survivor and Barrow's Edge and it can boast some impressive self-sustainability in a fight which is a pretty fun niche to have on the battlefield. There is no limit to how often you can transcend outside of combat meaning you are also practically full health after every encounter. Their high level feats can be pretty fun like Journey of the Sky Chariot for infinite out of combat flight, Warped by Rage to eat the Giant Barbarian's lunch, and a surprising amount of AOE options which paizo doesn't often give martial classes.
My biggest critiques of the class are the underwhelming level 1,2,4 feats where unless you are going for some specific builds (like throwing) you are probably better off archetyping. Level 6-20 each has something interesting to offer.
I was looking at Warped by Rage. That does look pretty good. Moon Frenzy is a morph effect, not a battle form. So the unarmed strike damage would be multiplied by striking runes on your handwraps? You become a hulking beast with claws that tear things apart.
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No, they would not be Multiplied, since that isn't how Striking runes work. They raise they attack to a set number of dice.
So Striking leaves them at 2 dice
Then Greater Striking is 3
Major Striking is 4
It does not go 4 dice,6 dice,8 dice
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The class itself is kind of just an average martial.
I think it is considerably above average, unless you are considering barbarian to be "average"
The archetype is at its strongest in any game that doesn't progress past level 4 where you take it at second level or at first with ancient elf. For longer or higher level games, there are better archetypes available (like champion), but much like the pre-nerf psychic, you eventually slam it on every character in a free archetype game or at level 9 with multitalented. The archetype is also useful as a build enabler with stuff like shadow sheath.
While there are definitely specific archetypes for specific builds that will be better than Exemplar the Exemplar archetype is going to be best possible option for lots of builds (especially martials that are basically just looking for more damage) and very good for many, many others. it has crazy flexibility and lots of raw power options.
No, they would not be Multiplied, since that isn't how Striking runes work. They raise they attack to a set number of dice.
So Striking leaves them at 2 dice
Then Greater Striking is 3
Major Striking is 4It does not go 4 dice,6 dice,8 dice
Ok. SO 6th level Moon Frenzy starts at 3d6, then with striking would go 4, 5, then 6.
6d6 plus 4 status for enlarge, then strength, specialization, and whatever else. That's ok, not spectacular but like a greater striking greatsword with agile.
Not sure that is quite as impressive, but it's not bad.
Ok. SO 6th level Moon Frenzy starts at 3d6, then with striking would go 4, 5, then 6.
6d6 plus 4 status for enlarge, then strength, specialization, and whatever else. That's ok, not spectacular but like a greater striking greatsword with agile.
Not sure that is quite as impressive, but it's not bad.
Striking runes don't add dice, they only set a number. So you have 3d6 base (per 6th rank moon frenzy) and 4d6 with major striking. Its only use is to be a psuedo giant rage that ends if you don't enter a transcend body, transcend weapon loop (which tbf is basically already how you play an exemplar).
I think it is considerably above average, unless you are considering barbarian to be "average"
That's correct. Average accuracy, average feats, average skills, average AC, above average damage bonus, average reaction, can't access plate AC without losing free action rage, locked into str/dex/con/wis because of this... yeah, pretty average.
While there are definitely specific archetypes for specific builds that will be better than Exemplar the Exemplar archetype is going to be best possible option for lots of builds (especially martials that are basically just looking for more damage) and very good for many, many others. it has crazy flexibility and lots of raw power options.
I wouldn't call slamming champion/gunslinger/swashbuckler onto just about every melee/ranged/caster that can support them "specific archetypes for specific builds." That's more sneaking sleepwalker onto tome thaumaturge for infinite advantage on infinite knowledge or bolting snarecrafter onto legendary class DC classes to throw lightning snares under a quandry'd enemy.
In any case, I'm not saying exemplar archetype isn't good. I'm saying it's rarely an efficient use of feats to take it before level 9 in non-free archetype games.
Ok. SO 6th level Moon Frenzy starts at 3d6, then with striking would go 4, 5, then 6.
6d6 plus 4 status for enlarge, then strength, specialization, and whatever else. That's ok, not spectacular but like a greater striking greatsword with agile.
Not sure that is quite as impressive, but it's not bad.
Striking runes don't add dice, they only set a number. So you have 3d6 base (per 6th rank moon frenzy) and 4d6 with major striking. Its only use is to be a psuedo giant rage that ends if you don't enter a transcend body, transcend weapon loop (which tbf is basically already how you play an exemplar).
I think it is considerably above average, unless you are considering barbarian to be "average"That's correct. Average accuracy, average feats, average skills, average AC, above average damage bonus, average reaction, can't access plate AC without losing free action rage, locked into str/dex/con/wis because of this... yeah, pretty average.
While there are definitely specific archetypes for specific builds that will be better than Exemplar the Exemplar archetype is going to be best possible option for lots of builds (especially martials that are basically just looking for more damage) and very good for many, many others. it has crazy flexibility and lots of raw power options.I wouldn't call slamming champion/gunslinger/swashbuckler onto just about every melee/ranged/caster that can support them "specific archetypes for specific builds." That's more sneaking sleepwalker onto tome thaumaturge for infinite advantage on infinite knowledge or bolting snarecrafter onto legendary class DC classes to throw lightning snares under a quandry'd enemy.
In any case, I'm not saying exemplar archetype isn't good. I'm saying it's rarely an efficient use of feats to take it before level 9 in non-free archetype games.
4d6 damage is terrible. Not sure how that is pseudo-giant rage. Giant barbs hit way, way harder and can have 4th level enlarge on them. That's not very good at all.
For a class that came out in the mythic book, Exemplar is pretty average and unimpressive. About the only thing I can say is they have a done masterful job of never making anything better than the core class books so there is not much reason to play much outside of the core. Fighter, barb, monk, and rogue are still clearly the strongest martial classes in the game.
Really not even sure why the Exemplar would have the rare tag given it's kind of an average martial class.
Oh well. Still gonna try it just to play something different. I've already min-maxed so many fighters, rogues, monks, and barbs that playing something somewhat weak will make for a bit of a challenge.
4d6 damage is terrible. Not sure how that is pseudo-giant rage. Giant barbs hit way, way harder and can have 4th level enlarge on them. That's not very good at all.
Because for 1 action you get enlarge 4 which is a status bonus to damage, clumsy 1 and increased reach, and moon frenzy 6 which is temp hp. These benefits are fairly similar to a level 6 giant rage with the giant stature feat and better than what you could get archetyping for such a thing.
Oh well. Still gonna try it just to play something different. I've already min-maxed so many fighters, rogues, monks, and barbs that playing something somewhat weak will make for a bit of a challenge.
Eh, it's not that bad. Just strap champion to it and do something simple like transcending back and forth between gleaming blade and gaze or whatever useful ikon you pick to start with.
4d6 damage is terrible. Not sure how that is pseudo-giant rage. Giant barbs hit way, way harder and can have 4th level enlarge on them. That's not very good at all.
You will never use the unarmed attack with this, you're here for the Enlarge and from Moon Frenzy the 10 THP and +10 speed.
So you have your d10 or d12 weapon ikon, and Warped By Rage feat enhancing your body or worn ikon.
Turn 1: start with spark in body/worn ikon, 1a transcend Spasm of the Beserker. Now you have 10 THP, +10 status to speed, size huge and reach increased by 10', +4 status to damage. This lasts until to the end of turn 2. (Except not, see next turn.) Your spark is now in your weapon ikon, and you get the +1-3 (usually +2) damage per weapon die immanence bonus as you make your strike(s) this turn.
Turn 2: You start with you spark in your weapon ikon, and do a transcendance for a big hit. Spark transfers to worn/body ikon, and you still have Spasm of the Beserker active, which means "If this ikon becomes empowered again, you can extend Spasm of the Berserker’s duration until the end of your next turn. While you’re already affected by Spasm of the Berserker, the transcend action becomes a free action to extend its duration until the end of your next turn."
Turn 3: Repeat turn 1. (Refresh 10 THP from Spasm.)
Turn 4: Repeat turn 2.
And so on. You are always benefiting from faux Giant Barb status with this. You can also add on Compliant Gold (feat 12) to give a d12 weapon reach, increasing your total reach to 20' or a d10 reach weapon to 25' total reach.
4d6 damage is terrible. Not sure how that is pseudo-giant rage. Giant barbs hit way, way harder and can have 4th level enlarge on them. That's not very good at all.Because for 1 action you get enlarge 4 which is a status bonus to damage, clumsy 1 and increased reach, and moon frenzy 6 which is temp hp. These benefits are fairly similar to a level 6 giant rage with the giant stature feat and better than what you could get archetyping for such a thing.
Oh well. Still gonna try it just to play something different. I've already min-maxed so many fighters, rogues, monks, and barbs that playing something somewhat weak will make for a bit of a challenge.Eh, it's not that bad. Just strap champion to it and do something simple like transcending back and forth between gleaming blade and gaze or whatever useful ikon you pick to start with.
Level 6 giant rage at lvl 14? That's not awesome. It's pretty easy to get a level 4 enlarge on a giant barb for the +4 status bonus to damage at that high a level. It doesn't look very good.
For me it's why give it the rare tag and call it something like Exemplar where's it's supposed to be this incredible class based on heroes like Hercules and put it in the mythic book, then make it weaker than the core class martials? I don't get it I guess.
I'll play it and see how it goes. I've min-maxed all the core class martials so many times I need something new. The exemplar looks conceptually fun even if it would get its lunch eaten by most core class martials.
4d6 damage is terrible. Not sure how that is pseudo-giant rage. Giant barbs hit way, way harder and can have 4th level enlarge on them. That's not very good at all.You will never use the unarmed attack with this, you're here for the Enlarge and from Moon Frenzy the 10 THP and +10 speed.
So you have your d10 or d12 weapon ikon, and Warped By Rage feat enhancing your body or worn ikon.
Turn 1: start with spark in body/worn ikon, 1a transcend Spasm of the Beserker. Now you have 10 THP, +10 status to speed, size huge and reach increased by 10', +4 status to damage. This lasts until to the end of turn 2. (Except not, see next turn.) Your spark is now in your weapon ikon, and you get the +1-3 (usually +2) damage per weapon die immanence bonus as you make your strike(s) this turn.
Turn 2: You start with you spark in your weapon ikon, and do a transcendance for a big hit. Spark transfers to worn/body ikon, and you still have Spasm of the Beserker active, which means "If this ikon becomes empowered again, you can extend Spasm of the Berserker’s duration until the end of your next turn. While you’re already affected by Spasm of the Berserker, the transcend action becomes a free action to extend its duration until the end of your next turn."
Turn 3: Repeat turn 1. (Refresh 10 THP from Spasm.)
Turn 4: Repeat turn 2.
And so on. You are always benefiting from faux Giant Barb status with this. You can also add on Compliant Gold (feat 12) to give a d12 weapon reach, increasing your total reach to 20' or a d10 reach weapon to 25' total reach.
I play in a min-maxed group as I've discussed on this forum in these discussion. All the theory crafting about individual characters with 25 foot reach looking great doesn't do much given my entire group shows up min-maxed, playing fighters and rogues almost every campaign, then wrecks everything.
My question for the class is does it set up fast and can it compete with a min-maxed fighter and/or rogue for combat capability? If the answer is no, then it's a weaker martial class. That's not even including min-maxed casters with ideal spells that open fights with big blast hammers, usually multiple.
I haven't been on the forum for a while because we burned out a bit on PF2. We pretty much have PF2 easy mode at this point. So an exemplar will at least be a little harder mode.
One thing about PF2 with its balance, there's not many places to go after you've tried nearly everything. Each new book just comes out with some new class with PF2 balance that often falls short of what you can do with the core martials.
Rogue is the martial king. Fighter is the martial combat king. Barb is a little behind both of them. Monk is probably the strongest high level martial if you know how to build them. Champion armor king.
These new classes seem to offer versatility, but not much to make you feel excited for combat when you've already seen all the big dog martials bring the hammer and casters annihilate the game still at high level.
Like I said, I'm looking for something new as we get back into PF2. I'm doing Exemplar just to try it and an animist in an another campaign. The animist has some more oomph to it, though it is still just a caster. So most of oomph will come from dropping big nuke spells on groups and looking for crit fail saves.
We'll see how fun it. I'm looking for fun and different right now, not necessarily the most powerful class.
We played the first session. I have to say the Exemplar is kind of fun. Using the ikons is interesting. I chose Titan Breaker, Horn of Plenty, and Skin Hard as Horn. I think that gives me a nice mix of ikons for offense, defense, and utility.
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I don't have high level experience, only lvl 8 with mine.
Shield+Unarmed with Mirrored Aegis, Titan's Breaker and Scar of the Survior.
The +1 AC Aura at start is nice, as i am not the fastest.
Typical first turn would be raise the walls (transcendence-action for the shield aka raise shield and +1 ac/saves for me + 1), move and strike (with the immanence-effect of titan's breaker, +2/dice).
Scar of the Survivor is my tank option for a bit of self heal.
Pro:
- High survivability
- Nice support with aegis and radiant healing (2+2*level for each ally once per combat)
- Some options to target weaknesses with different energy types
- Trip/Grapple with unarmed
- Free hand for battle medicine
Con:
- Damage not that high (even though my GM allowed Titan's Breaker with my d8 bite)
- Feels a bit action starved
- Lower level feats are mostly bad or situational, despite their grandiose names
The rare tag is quite obviously not due to the class power, but due to the grandiose story/main character feeling - which you probably would't care about (and we don't, at least in this group).
Overall, I'd say that Exemplar starts as a class that has good numbers, but later on needs to focus on the non-numbers half of their kit; they need to acquire and age their cheese like a fine, stinky wine.
If you nerf the few standout feats like Only the Worthy, Exemplar will not have the best of times among a power-gaming group, imo.
I do think they can hold their own compared to other classes, but only if they can make that cheese work.
(and DPS parties notoriously nullify all other mechanics due to ending fights before non-HP effects can properly help)
And what stinks is that for some tables/parties, it might be the right call for the GM to nerf Only the Worthy or some other combo, because requiring a foe make a -2 [attack] skill check before they can move (or stand) again is genuinely a signature ability in terms of power, but the drawback of leaving your ikon is easy to build around, and there's no other cost/cooldown.
[Warped by Rage discussion]
I think as the dev created the feat, he realized he needed that little "ribbon" mechanic at the end for extending the duration. And once that text was there, he realized that it's not a ribbon at all, and the mechanic makes it a key feat for some Exemplar builds.
Warped by Rage is iirc the only way in the system for an Exemplar to 0A bounce the spark.
The "power player" use for the feat is to look at an any existing body or worn Ikon you like the passive for, but *not* the Trans.
Adding Warped by Rage into the Ikon means that you can have the spark bounce into it, make use of the passive, then 0A sustain-Trans to get the spark to the Ikon you want right before your turn ends.
It also is helpful to maximize the uptime of the other Ikon passives you like, by using the 0A right at the start of your "off" turns.
The "one Trans per turn" limit rule is easy to miss, so I'll repeat it here; the 0A Trans does not mean you can use a weapon Ikon's super attack every turn!
And I almost forgot that there are some genuinely good Epithet abilities that can be spammed, and every time you pop that 0A Trans, they can activate.
Honestly, the main reason I'm worried about penciling that feat in for my on-the-shelf Exemplar is the Huge size mandate. It's genuinely disruptive, and I cannot think of a good way to override/suppress it.
The planned PC is going to Grapple/Trip some, and might use it as a pseudo-Step, where the size grow has a direction to get inside the Huge+ foe's reach, and the PC is now big enough to Trip.
Once the Athletics action is complete, (and Only the Worthy is done atop the Prone foe) letting the Spasm Trans time out means shrinking-moving, into any of the 3x3 Huge squares as desired.
Because the size change is so short in duration, the GM is def going to have to come up with rules for how other creatures in the way will handle getting "grown-into" so to speak.
And wow, does it ever kinda suck for Exemplars that most of their unique "build around this" powers are so easily poachable by archetyping.
I'm not not just talking about poaching the Ikons.
Jealous of the Exemplar's ability to throw that 2H greatsword? That's not a chassis exclusive, it's a L2 feat you can poach.
(One easy to forget mechanical consequence of this, is that any STR weapon can gain pseudo-finesse via throws, which always use DEX.)
Pinning foes via Only the Worthy? L4 class feat. (At least poaching this one means keying into a lagging Archetype-Class DC)
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And wow, does it ever kinda suck for Exemplars that most of their unique "build around this" powers are so easily poachable by archetyping.
Only if you're at a table where Exemplar archetypes are allowed. There are a significant number where the Archetype is illegal.
Which definitely complicates rating Exemplars :-)
I do think they can hold their own compared to other classes, but only if they can make that cheese work.
(and DPS parties notoriously nullify all other mechanics due to ending fights before non-HP effects can properly help)
This happens often in my group. My group focuses on DPS and ending fights fast. They do not waste time on abilities that don't do damage a lot of the time. It reached a point for us that slow build options and abilities were a waste of a time, so they wanted stuff that worked easily out of the box.
I will not have time to set up any "cheese." Things have to work fast. If they don't, the fight will be over.
Using only the Worthy to pin something is could be good against enemies that don't have a strong athletics or enough strength to lift 8000 lbs.
There's a handful of high level creatures that have zero athletics, hilarious if you ever encounter one of those.
So far it looks pretty good at low level.
I like having a mix of abilities to call upon.
Not sure what feats are good. The feats have these grandiose names, but their power is pretty meh as far as my reading goes. But maybe some will perform better once I use them.
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I think the Exemplar is more of a "fun martial" than a "bleeding edge powerful martial." If you're allergic to how martial characters sometimes have a reliable loop that is often the best thing to do, the whole "spark juggling" mechanic of the Exemplar is sort of designed to cater to you, especially when you start adding riders to transcendence effects with epithets.
There's a handful of high level creatures that have zero athletics, hilarious if you ever encounter one of those.
I once grappled an arch lich and held on until it was destroyed. Setting your ikon atop one would feel much the same I imagine.
I just played a DEXemplar at PFS this past weekend. He was a lot of fun and a nice change of pace from my usual mid- to back- line support casters.
But reading some of the posts in this thread, I think I got part of the combat loop wrong. Specifically, the way I played my exemplar, when he spent his spark using the ikon's transcendent ability, I would spend another action to move the spark into a different ikon. But the way I'm reading this thread, it seems like when you use the transcendent ability, the spark can just move to a different ikon, rather than (as I thought) being dissipated. Is this correct?
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I just played a DEXemplar at PFS this past weekend. He was a lot of fun and a nice change of pace from my usual mid- to back- line support casters.
But reading some of the posts in this thread, I think I got part of the combat loop wrong. Specifically, the way I played my exemplar, when he spent his spark using the ikon's transcendent ability, I would spend another action to move the spark into a different ikon. But the way I'm reading this thread, it seems like when you use the transcendent ability, the spark can just move to a different ikon, rather than (as I thought) being dissipated. Is this correct?
Correct:
"Immediately after you Spark Transcendence, your divine spark is forcefully ejected from that ikon, coming to rest in another ikon of your choice."
Note however that the Exemplar MC Dedication does not have this ability until it gets a second Ikon. Thus they have to use the Shift Immanence action.
Exemplar is pretty fun. Not every Ikon is great, but they are mostly good or useful. I'm finding the versatility useful.
Yeah, the Exemplar I think is a well designed class since the mechanical appeal is that it's very fun to play, rather than being a powerhouse. Most other classes fall more easily into loops than the Exemplar, and while the Exemplar might be in a "swap between ikon A and ikon B" holding pattern, your third (or fourth) ikon is likely something that you're going to want to use sometimes.
I do wish there were more feats, but that's the case for almost every class.
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It's a fun class that can be taken a lot of directions. It won't outperform many other martials in damage but it can be very flexible in its few actions depending on its Ikons. It's essentially a martial Kinet.
Some tables don't like the godling flavor (even though champ, cleric, and sorc exist >>), but it is really easy to reflavor as a dozen other things. Outside of a few stand outs, it doesn't really get any abilities that feel particularly more "godly".
A few fun builds I like:
Ranged Bow Support Halfling with Starshot, Horn of Plenty, and either Aegis on a buckler or Gaze with Fake Out from Gunslinger Archetype with a Gauntlet Bow and Helpful Halfling. Alchemist or Herbalist are fine too. Take Steel on Steel to alternate AOE damage with full MAP strikes.
Unarmed Berserker Lizardfolk with 2 of Titanbreaker Tail, Wildling Bite, Gleaming Blade Claws. Then either Sky Bearers Belt or Horn of Plenty. Steel on Steel on Belt or Horn lets you spam aoe every turn with Wildling. Threads of Fate makes Skybearers much easier to use. Wandering Chef or Wrestler archetype.
Twin Star Air Repeaters (or semi auto pistols from sf2e if your GM is rad). Starshot, Gaze, Sandals / Victors Wreath. Gunslinger Archetype for Fake Out, Ten Paces, and Paired Shots.
2h Area Control. D12 Weapon. Stretching Reach from Minotaur or Jotun. Titan Breaker / Gleaming Blade, Fetching Bangles, Scar. Take Steel on Steel on Bangles. Reactive Strike, Raise Island, Vital Ash / Flight, Warped By Rage. Eagle Knight FA for Tactical Reflexes is rad. Intermix 2h Strikes with Aoe Damage. Lizardfolk Terrain Advantage goes hard with Bones of the Earth Epithet.
I did notice this. The Exemplar feats have great names, but lackluster abilities. That part is disappointing. The exemplar definitely doesn't compete with the core martials. It's an ok martial.
Maybe the archetype was intended to be the primary use for exemplar. It does allow you to turn almost any other class into a class with a cool, memorable item.
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How is the exemplar performing? Is it fun? What are some good builds?
I'm doing fine, thanks for asking, nufriend!
Mirrored aegis + shield boss + bastion dedication does a good job of negating hits and downgrading crits for the whole party. If a foe takes flight, I can switch to an infinite stock of throwing knives from my shadow sheath. My magic scar and radiant epithet provide healing that doesn't chew up a spell slot, focus point, or consumable.
I just have to keep reminding other players whether on not the aegis aura is in play.
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I'm currently playing an exemplar (level 9 so far) with Gleaming Blade, Scar and Victor's Wreath. I specifically picked it up because I didn't know the class, and people told me it wasn't that great.
Well, so far it's been more powerful than I expected. Scar makes it so every damage during exploration is basically negated ("Yeah, don't roll for damage for this sandstorm, who cares anyway ?". Radiant is mandatory, which is annoying (I hate mandatory stuff) but so powerful. Giving 16 HP as a free action once every round is incredible, even if it's one per companion. It raised our healer after a crit, it helped our fighter survive another hit - it's Nudge The Scales from the Oracle, except as a free action and without cursebound.
Gleaming blade is probably the most powerful weapon ikon (with sheath a close second on specific builds). 2 free damage per dice is nothing to scoff at, but being able to use Double Slice with 2-handed weapons is something the fighter can only dream of. And full spirit conversion makes it so it's very rarely resisted (we once fought a golem and my strike did no damage, fun times). I didn't do as much damage as our fighter, but I had much more utility.
Also, if you're trying to optimize your Exemplar, then you need to pick ikons that allow you to Transcend whenever you need. Barrow's edge, for instance, looks like a nice pick - except you can only transcend if you hit. No hit, no transcendance. Which means no free switch to another ikon, no heal for your team, no step or temporary HP. This is the reason why Gleaming Blade is vastly superior to the other options - you can use it whenever you want with no condition whatsoever.
As for my other ikons, Scar was my go-to second option when I was in the midst of the fight and about to be targeted. Good thing is - again, no condition, so you can transcend even if you're unhurt. And if you got hit, 1d8/2 levels really helped me tank alongside temp HP from my level 7 epithet. Start round with transcend scar, get healed, get Gleaming Blade powered up and hack away. Next round, Transcend Gleaming blade, get scar, move, rinse and repeat.
Good thing is, there's no limit to the healing from scar. So if I really get targeted for some reason, I can transcend Scar every round at the cost of being slowed 1. It's a hefty cost, but it was helpful in a few fights.
As for Victor's Wreath, it's here as a backup. We do have a bard, so the +1 bonus is not as useful as it could be in other groups. But the transcendance ability is incredibly good when needed. Even nerfed, being able to reroll a save at +2 against basically anything (a condition or a negative effect). So, I never had my spark in it but when needed, it was the best condition removal in the whole game for the low price of 2 actions. It's very useful against critfails (fleeing, drained...). Funny thing is, grabbed is a condition, as is prone. And the transcendance doesn't specify that people have to roll against the same condition. So while you're helping your caster who got grabbed, you're also helping the fighter who was prone.
It's not a powerhouse as in BIG NUMBERS OMG, although being able to bypass any damage resist really helps in this department. But being able to dish out a lot of damage while being incredibly durable and helping out your party is incredible.
Plus, roleplaying.
"Didn't you get skewered a minute ago ?"
"I got better".
Plus, roleplaying.
"Didn't you get skewered a minute ago ?"
"I got better".
XD
Gleaming blade is probably the most powerful weapon ikon (with sheath a close second on specific builds). 2 free damage per dice is nothing to scoff at, but being able to use Double Slice with 2-handed weapons is something the fighter can only dream of.Dream of? Just take exemplar dedication on Fighter :D
But to add something positive for Exemplar I really like some of his feats like being ably to add holy/unholy tag or converting his spirit damage from icons to other energy types. But overall his feats are quite mediocre. But his dedication is worth just for being able to grab gleaming blade with sonic damage to you can cut through constructs and physical resistances and being able to trigger various weaknesses, though it requires some game knowledge to know what to trigger when
Yeah, his feats are impressively bad, sadly.
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If we're talking the Exemplar archetype their feat choice isn't that bad. Resiliency is ok if you qualify, much much later second Ikon rocks, and energized sparks decent.
In a non free archetype game if I'm playing a character with decent feats I'll quite possibly just take the dedication and second Ikon,
In a free archetype game I'll likely take energized spark and something meh.
This definitely reduces the value of the Exemplar archetype, especially in a free archetype game. But it is still pretty darn good even then, the dedication itself being so good
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Yeah, there's a good argument that the Exemplar is fine. It's good but not a problem on its own. But the exemplar dedication is arguably a bit too strong.