| Dwarftr |
Looking to build a character using daggers, Kukris, or Kerambits while still doing reasonable damage thats not just a fighter with lots of feats.
Im looking for something that has a little more playstyle and rpg options so im not just hitting things. Would like to contribute out of combat as well and still be productive.
Race: Not too crazy, but can do Aasimar/Tiefling or simlilar. Show me good core options as well
Class: Dont want to be feat starved.... willing to multiclass.
Weapons: as stated, also willing to Dual wield if viable.
Skills: want be not stuck with 1-2 skills per lvl.
Point Buy: 20
Thxs in advance
| Mudfoot |
Daggers are rather unimpressive unless you buff them with a lot of extra damage. It's a light weapon so you can't get much out of strength or PA, so you need to stack other damage which implies dual-wielding, which brings its own problems (feat dependency, -2 attack, no shield, pay for 2 weapons, etc).
Knife Master Unrogue is the obvious answer, but rather fragile and very dependent on sneak attack; inquisitor, ranger and slayer might fit better with what you want, though ranger is too situationally dependent on FE.
Flying Blade Swashbuckler is about throwing the things. Stylish but maybe a bit meh in practice.
Warpriest gets you away from the d4 but it takes a while to mean much.
Small races lose only half a point of damage from using a dagger, so that's OK. Halfling with Fleet Foot gives you 30' move.
River Rat trait is +1 damage; Pharasma's Obedience gets another +2. Trunau Native gets you a masterwork dagger.
Daggers aside, what do you want to do? Martial or caster? The weapon you use shouldn't really define your whole character.
| Mysterious Stranger |
If you really want to do a lot of damage with a low dice weapon the obvious answer is a warpriest. The damage dice scales up with level to a maximum of 2d8. You start out at 1d6 and reach 1d10 by 10th level. They also get bonus combat feats and can even get fighter only feats. The can use fervor to cast their buff spells as a swift action. Blessing and the ability to add enchantments to their weapons gives them even more ways to boost their damage.
The only drawback is their skills, but a human with FCB will get at least 4 per level with a 10 INT, if you can swing at least a 12 INT that jumps up to 5.
| I grok do u |
As Mudfoot and Mysterious Stranger said, Warpriest is decent. Gives lots of bonuses to sacred weapon via damage increase, enhancements, and spells. Gets some bonus feats with fighter only feats accessable. And has the 0-6 level spells from cleric spell list which gives you options to help the party as well. Some of the blessings are nice, too. This is also one of the cheaper options for dual wielding, as you can eventually just buy a couple of +1's and enhance from there.
Slayer! is good option for combat, full BAB, studied target + sneak attack, and can use ranger combat styles to either get some feats that are otherwise tricky or get two weapon fighting feats with a less Dex based build. Plenty of skill points for whatever utility you want.
Inquisitors have good flexibility, and the spells, judgements, and bane to boost some damage. Good flavor and skills for utility and roleplay.
Investigators are pretty good too. The studied strike is somewhat more reliable than sneak attack, but more limited in multiple uses per round (without specific talents). The Natural Philosopher archetype does get proficiency with kukris, if that is worth it for you.
Vigilante gets either full BAB or hidden strike, and lots of useful social and vigilante talents so you have plenty of roleplay and utility options.
| Dwarftr |
Looking for a bunch of options.
As for melee or spellcaster.... that much doesnt matter.
What i want to do is contribute in and out of combat while not being completly useless. Decent hit/damage while also decent skills/playability.
I tend to go all in usually as melee, or skillmonky, or caster with not much flex. So.... looking to diversify.
The main thing i want is to use these weapons, plus either skillmonkey or caster/buff/save or suck.
| Phoebus Alexandros |
The Myrmidarch Magus gets access to the Fighter's Weapon Training class feature at 6th level, which opens the door to the Advanced Weapon Training feat and the Focused Weapon ability (which mirrors the Warpriest's damage-dealing) at 8th level (if your table does retraining) or 9th level (if it doesn't).
Between that, his normal Spell Combat and Spellstrike class features, his Ranged Spellstrike, the Throwing Magus Arcana (which allows you to get the most out of a kukri), a Blinkback Belt, and the Quick Draw feat, this character has a great deal of melee and ranged options--and the ability to cheaply recoup quite a few Arcane Pool points per day.
Even before Focused Weapon becomes available, the Spell Blending Arcana can get you access to Sense Vitals, which provides a scaling Sneak Attack damage. Between it, and the extra damage your dagger will deal courtesy of enhancements via your Arcane Pool, you'll be doing more than reasonable damage and will also be making up for the Myrmidarch's reduced spellcasting and lack of Spell Recall (which disincentivizes the stock Intensified Shocking Grasp spam build).
| Mysterious Stranger |
A human warpriest can start with two weapon fighting, weapon finesse, and weapon focus. Assuming a 16 DEX that will give him two attacks at +2 doing 1d6 each. Cast Divine Favor as a swift action and that increases your chance to hit to +3 and the damage to 1d6+1. At 3rd level he can pick up slashing grace and two weapon grace to get DEX to damage on the first attack and half of your DEX bonus on the second. At 5th level his damage dice goes up to 1d8 and he can pick up piranha strike. 6th level gets you weapon specialization for an additional +2 to damage per attack. That should put you to two attacks at +4 doing 1d8 +11 for the first attack and 1d8+7 for the second. If you are having trouble hitting skip using piranha strike to improve you bonus to hit to +6 and your damage drops to 1d8 +7 for the first attack and 1d8 +5 for the second. At 12th level you will have 4 attacks per round and be doing 1d10 +17 with your main hand, and the offhand doing 1d10 +12, with a threat range of 15-20. This is using normal weapons and with no belt to boost your DEX.
| Mysterious Stranger |
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If you can play a Grippli warpriest that should give you everything you want. It does take longer to develop than the human but has much better out of combat ability. Grippli get a climb speed which gives you a +8 bonus on climb and the ability to take 10 even while in danger. They also get a +4 bonus to all stealth rolls due to size, and an additional +4 in marshes and forest. Having a high DEX is going to boost that even higher. Use a trait to get a stealth as a class skill and a +1 bonus and you will not need many skill points to have a good stealth roll. WIS is going to be your primary mental stat and that will give you a good bonus to heal, perception, sense motive and survival. A trait can give you a +1 to perception and make it a class skill.
With all those bonuses this character can still make a decent scout even with very few skill points. Being able to spontaneously convert any spell to a cure spell, fervor, channel energy and access to condition removal spells you are also the healer of the group. In social setting your perception and sense motive allows you to be aware of what is going on.
In Combat divine favor is your main buff and at higher levels you will have it up for all combats. The feat Dual enchantment means you can boost both your weapons, but only with the lower bonus enchantments. But adding an extra d6 of elemental damage to all your attacks is still pretty good.
Bellow is a build that could work.
Grippli warpriest 12
Small humanoid (grippli)
Init +7; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 19, flat-footed 20 (+6 armor, +2 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 natural, +1 size)
hp 87 (12d8+24)
Fort +13, Ref +14, Will +16
Defensive Abilities sacred armor (+2, 12 minutes/day)
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee +1 kukri +19/+14 (1d8+15/15-20) or
+1 kukri +19/+14 (1d8+11/15-20)
Special Attacks blessings 9/day (Good: battle companion, holy strike, Protection: aura of protection, increased defense), channel positive energy 5/day (DC 21, 4d6), fervor 11/day (4d6), sacred weapon (1d10, +3, 12 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 12th; concentration +17)
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 25, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 10
Base Atk +9; CMB +8; CMD 26
Feats Dual Enhancement[ACG], Greater Weapon Focus (kukri), Greater Weapon Specialization (kukri), Improved Critical (kukri), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Slashing Grace[ACG], Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Grace, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (kukri), Weapon Specialization (kukri)
Traits highlander (hills or mountains), seeker
Skills Climb +16, Heal +10, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +15, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +21 (+23 in hilly or rocky areas, +25 in marshes and forested areas.), Survival +11, Swim +5; Racial Modifiers highlander (hills or mountains)
Languages Common, Grippli
SQ camouflage, swamp stride
Other Gear mwk mithral chain shirt, mwk kukri, mwk kukri, 52,284 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blessings (9/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Camouflage +4 Stealth in marshes and forested areas.
Climb (20 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Dual Enhancement When using div bond or sac wep, you may enha 2 wep or both ends of a dbl wep.
Fervor (4d6, 11/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Sacred Armor +2 (12 minutes/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant armor enhancement bonus or certain powers. Use 1 fervor as free action to also activate Sacred weapon.
Sacred Weapon +3 (12 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Slashing Grace (Kukri) Treat chosen weapon as 1-handed piercing weapon and can add Dex instead of Str to dam.
Swamp Stride (Ex) Not slowed by difficult terrain in swamps, unless magically manipulated.
Two-Weapon Grace Can gain effects of certain feats limited by free off hand when two weapon fighting.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 4d6 (5/day, DC 21) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
| Northern Spotted Owl |
If you go with the (excellent option of) warpriest, you might as well use kukri for their 18-20 crit range. You no longer care that they're 1d3 weapons. At 11th level you can take Improved Critical for a 15-20 crit range.
And if by luck you have a witch who takes the fortune hex then your crits skyrocket (one combat per day). Boring math below:
18-20 range means an 85% if not getting a crit. 85% * 85% = 72%, that is you have a 72% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll, and hence a 28% chance of getting a crit.
15-20 means 70% * 70% = 49% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll. That's right, 51% of the time you crit.
Cheers
| Melkiador |
By mid levels, a well built fighter could also be a skill monkey through advanced weapon training and advanced armor training. They could also gain the warpriest damage chart through advanced weapon training. So, if you don't want to play a fighter, that's fine, but they may offer more than you are familiar with.
But if you have the unchained rogue as an option, I think it could let you do most of what you want to do from very early level.
| Mysterious Stranger |
By 11th level a warpriest using two weapon fighting has 4 or more attacks per round. That means the chance of a critical threat is 76%, not 51%. With all the bonuses to hit the warpriest has by that level anything high enough to be a threat is probably going to hit. The character will still need to confirm the critical, but that is about all. This does not factor in if the character gets other attacks from things like haste or AoO.
| Waterhammer |
What if I want to do the warpriest build but as a human? Also don’t want to dump my strength into the pits? It should be viable from 1st level as well. I noticed that a 1st level Ranger character that I made was packing over 69 pounds of gear. Very close to being a medium load. If your strength is 16. Eight strength is way less.
Taja the Barbarian
|
If you go with the (excellent option of) warpriest, you might as well use kukri for their 18-20 crit range. You no longer care that they're 1d3 weapons. At 11th level you can take Improved Critical for a 15-20 crit range.
And if by luck you have a witch who takes the fortune hex then your crits skyrocket (one combat per day). Boring math below:
18-20 range means an 85% if not getting a crit. 85% * 85% = 72%, that is you have a 72% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll, and hence a 28% chance of getting a crit.
15-20 means 70% * 70% = 49% chance of *not* getting a crit on either roll. That's right, 51% of the time you crit.
Cheers
Just to clarify, you are talking about chances of a Critical Threat rather than an actual critical hit: You still need to confirm the crit, which will be hamstrung a bit by the Warpriest's 3/4 BAB.
Back when we ran through (most of) Wrath of the Righteous, one person played a Tempered Champion Paladin of Tanagaar for full BAB big damage dice Kukri fun.
Taja the Barbarian
|
What if I want to do the warpriest build but as a human? Also don’t want to dump my strength into the pits? It should be viable from 1st level as well. I noticed that a 1st level Ranger character that I made was packing over 69 pounds of gear. Very close to being a medium load. If your strength is 16. Eight strength is way less.
Point buys only stretch so far, and high-dex builds can generally get away with light equipment loads until they eventually get some magic bags.
Conveniently enough for many builds, this generally works better for Small size characters than Medium ones due to their 75% carrying capacity vs. 50% weapon/armor weights, giving them just a tiny bit more wiggle room (unless you need something that doesn't scale by character size like an Alchemy Crafting Kit).| Mysterious Stranger |
Human works fine and the extra feat is helpful. The OP wanted a small race, so I choose gripli for the bonus to DEX and WIS. The human warpriest can start out with two weapon fighting, weapon focus, and weapon finesse. So, at 1st level he will have 2 attacks at +3 to hit doing 1d6 damage. At 3rd level he can get slashing grace and two weapon grace. Which allows him to get DEX to damage on the main hand and half DEX to damage on the second.
Being small does reduce the damage die, but it also gives the character a +1 bonus to hit due to size. Gripli not only gives good stat bonuses it has a lot of out of combat utility that the OP valued. It is also the reason his STR is 8 instead of 10.
The warpiest may be a ¾ BAB class but the weapon focus and greater weapons focus offset some of that as does the small size. At 12th level those bonuses bring up his chance to hit equal to those of a full BAB class without those feats. The lower BAB means things like piranha strike scale up slower. That means he gets less damage but also means he takes less penalty so that evens out.
Two weapon fighting requires a very high DEX so there is not a lot of room for STR in a 20 point buy. But as a DEX based character your AC will be coming mainly from your DEX, and you will be using light armor. A mithral chain shirt or dark leaf studded leather is your best bet. Kukris are also light weapons and only weight 1 pound each for a small character.
Sister Darla
|
What if I want to do the warpriest build but as a human? Also don’t want to dump my strength into the pits? It should be viable from 1st level as well. I noticed that a 1st level Ranger character that I made was packing over 69 pounds of gear. Very close to being a medium load. If your strength is 16. Eight strength is way less.
One thing I noticed early on when I started playing PFS is that Merisiel (the iconic rogue) starts with a 14 Str. I wondered why until I calculated the weight of her gear, and realized she needed that Str to remain at a light load. She doesn't have an egregious amount of equipment, either; apart from her 10 daggers, it's a pretty typical inventory for a rogue. The lesson: don't tank Str, even on a Dex build, if you want to be able carry anything useful without being encumbered.
My own dagger specialist was a Pharasman warpriest, who had all three Weapon of the Faithful feats by 5th level. Sadly, I didn't get to play her much after that, due to 2E eclipsing interest in 1E in our local group.
| Northern Spotted Owl |
Back when we ran through (most of) Wrath of the Righteous, one person played a Tempered Champion Paladin of Tanagaar for full BAB big damage dice Kukri fun.
That looks like an amazing build. I'd never come across the Tempered Champion.
| Mysterious Stranger |
STR can be a concern when carrying equipment but there are things that can help. Usually the heaviest item a character has is armor and weapons. Special materials like mithral and darkleaf cloth can help with that. Mithral weapons also count as silver but do not have the damage penalty and weighs half what a normal weapon does.
Playing a small creature can be beneficial to a character with a low STR score. The carrying capacity for a small creature is ¾ of that of a medium creature, but most of their gear weighs ½ of normal. A normal chain shirt will take up 96% of the light load for a medium character with an 8 STR. A normal chain shirt will take around 64% of the light load of a small 8 STR character.
When you have a small character using special material for their equipment the weight limit becomes a lot less of a problem. But not all items are subject to size some things are not based on the characters size. Spell books and alchemy crafting kits are not reduced for small characters, neither is treasure.
| Mysterious Stranger |
At 1st level normal studded leather is available and affordable. At that point his DEX bonus will not be higher than 5. As he levels up it will raise as gains stat increases for level and picks up a belt of DEX. Darkleaf studded leather is also a better option and cost less than a mithral chain shirt.
| Dwarftr |
So, looking thru the posts, ill tap on a few notes.
As for race, its not as important. so Human, grippli, small, medium. Doesnt matter. As i said, looking for decent and reasonable.
Class, same, decent and reasonable.
Ive played min/max and focused characters. Atm im looking to expand my role to include in and out of combat, able to hit and do decent damage, and still have optional roles. Instead of attacker, caster, skillmonkey, healer and such
I would like to be a decent attacter while being able to maybe do like save or suck casting, or party buffer, or trapper/skills. All while not being too much baggage if you know what i mean.
Also our current group is at lvl 14 so this character will be high lvl starting.
| Azothath |
Azothath's Builds: Mage-killer build = Monk-Flowing Monk 2 Wizard-Diviner 7
Magus Mortem LN aasimar emberkin(ntv outsdr) Lvl:Monk-Flowing Monk 2, Wizard(Diviner) 7
Magnus Mactator LN human Lvl:Monk-Flowing Monk 2, Wizard(Diviner) 7
... you'll have to take it to Monk-Flow 2 Wiz(Dvnr) 12.
Weapons: dagger, cestus, shortsword/gladius, temple sword, crossbows. You'll need Eschew Materials/False Focus/Diminishing Sash, Ring of Eloquence/spell/silent metamagic, and ghost touch weapon for when you're a shadow.
Otherwise a Grippli Warpriest or Inquisitor isn't bad.
| Phoebus Alexandros |
I would like to be a decent attacter while being able to maybe do like save or suck casting, or party buffer, or trapper/skills. All while not being too much baggage if you know what i mean.
That's why I recommended the Magus. Between spellcasting, Arcana, and magic items like a Headband of Vast Intellect (which at 14th level should allow you to max out 2-3 skills) you can easily make a more than capable attacker/damage-dealer who is also versatile outside of combat.
If you go with Eldritch Scion instead of Myrmidarch, you also get the option to play the face of the party (if you don't have a Bard, Oracle, or Paladin in the party) and a Headband of Mental Superiority still nets you skill versatiity. And yes, that locks you out of Weapon Training, but you still have so many non-Shocking Grasp spam ways of dealing good damage (especially at 14th level) and a great toolset of buffs for 2 rounds per arcane pool point.
| Mysterious Stranger |
Do you know what the other party member are going to be? That will help to figure out what type of out of combat utility would be more useful. If another character is already focused on an out of combat role and is better suited for it than you character you are not really going to be able to contribute anything even with appropriate skills or abilities. In other cases, the party may want all characters to be competent in certain areas. For example, if the rest of the party is good at stealth and your character is not that might limit what you can actually do.