I played this yesterday and am currently prepping this adventure. Some things came up during the discussion with the GM yesterday, and my own research in the adventure couldn't find any solutions, so here we go:
- The adventure mentions that the time the group takes to find Deskaris Gullet would influence the final part - the premium module even has a token to track the number of days. Yet the rest of the adventure doesn't mention it at all. Something seems to have gotten lost here!
- The fact that the treasure bundles are linked to more or less random spots on the hexploration map is BAD! By visiting two marked spots and fullfilling the challenges there, we had a pretty good idea where the Gullet was. So if we didn't stray from that very reasonable path, we would have lost not only 1 TB but FOUR! I remember a post saying that 8 TB is the expected result, with 10 meaning you did exceptionally well - reality aside that in most cases, 10 is the expected amount unless you screw up: In this case you get LESS TB for being fast / doing well!
- The effects of the ritual: During combat in G2, the ritual does damage every other turn. What happens AFTER that encounter?
If the damage doesn't stop: The adventure becomes MUCH more deadly since there is no way to heal up and even reaching the final chamber might take enough time to down characters. At the very least, the group will start the final combat on rather low health if the damage continues.
If the damage stops: Why does the end of the encounter change the effects of the ritual? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense!
- The final chase has two issues:
1. Are the automatic chase points from the leopards in addition to a roll or do they substitute a roll?
2. What happens if the chase is lost? Nothing? Some irrelevant damage? TPK? - Winning the chase isn't listed in any success conditions, either
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I've got the same question about #1, #2 you'll probably need to be a little direct with the players about their goals (to make friends and influence people). #3 is addressed in the scenario: the ritual effects occur once each time they enter a new room and after they complete a ten minute activity, like treating wounds or searching a room (page 14). #4 I'm planning on using the leopards like Edge Points from the Infiltration subsystem - they can use it to turn a fail/crit fail into a success. I've also got nothing for what happens if they fail other than they would ostensibly be buried by the and thus not which is the primary objective.
Malevolent_Maple wrote: #3 is addressed in the scenario: the ritual effects occur once each time they enter a new room and after they complete a ten minute activity, like treating wounds or searching a room (page 14). Ah, thanks, I missed that. I only have the Foundry VTT Module, not the PDF and kind of skipped past that in the description of room G3 - That info could have beeen presented in a more prominent way.
It also lacks any kind of explanation as to why it moves from "every 12 seconds" to "every 600 seconds or so". Or why the Cultist way even alive, since the hazards damage would probably have killed them at some point.
Just a logical problem though, not a mechanical one.
One more thing I noticed: The makro in the Premium Module, that is supposed to reveal the chase cards, just shows a broken link icon. It seems to be missing.
A friend, who is using the same game for all of season 6, doesn't have that symbol, but the chase cards in the macro have completely different names - that suggests, that the link is to a macro from another scenario.
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The.Vortex wrote:
One more thing I noticed: The makro in the Premium Module, that is supposed to reveal the chase cards, just shows a broken link icon. It seems to be missing.
A friend, who is using the same game for all of season 6, doesn't have that symbol, but the chase cards in the macro have completely different names - that suggests, that the link is to a macro from another scenario. Oh, good catch, that's from 6-12! I'll send it in to MM.
I DMed this yesterday and found a few more things that were weird:
1. On the hexploration map, the Oasis is NOT the spot that shows a "lake". That is called fetid bog. I would expect a maps of a desolate region to show an oasis clearly and not a bog where you probably can't drink the water anyways. Not a mechanical problem but just weird.
2. Speaking of the Oasis - if the hazard is triggered, a map is almost needed for the encounter to work! Movement and distances play quite a large role in how deadly that hazard is.
3. In High Tier with many CP, some of the rooms are once more too for a good fight with all the huge and large units around. Especially since many of the units don't have viable ranged options, so they block each other from being able to do anything.
4. The Retriever is just a strange unit! A construct that is in the text mentioned to be a demon, but has NO characteristics of a demon. It also isn't mindless and has a VERY week will save for its level. So not only can they be handled easily with certain spells, but they also are not immune to things like the confusion of the Derakni.
5. The Foundry premium module has more problems than the one mentioned above:
a. there are multiple instances in which buttons for skill checks don't work. One was easy to spot, since there was a typo in the skill name. Others I didn't take the time to check for the reasons
b. The party is placed in the wrong spot for area G2. They should be in the north according to people with the PDF - which makes more sense when you look at the locked door, which the group is only expected to encounter AFTER the fight, not before it.
6. Treasue Bundles: Not only did my group exactly what I expected would happen - they went for the outlook, then the oasis, then found the Gullet with lucky rolls, so they would have lost 4 treasure bundles by being too efficient. I told them about that issue in the adventure, and thus the group spent about one ingame month roaming around the map to find all but one of the spots they needed, before they returned to urgently interrupt that ritual. I have no idea how to fix that issue! It is just TERRIBLE design!
But the treasure bundles then also don't make sense in the end. The group did NOT win the skill challenges at two spots (Lookout (almost impossibly high DC anyways) as well as the snake), so they didn't get the items there. But for the treasure bundles, they only need to visit the spots. So the challenges are even more of a waste of time (other than to have an inkling of an idea what was happening in the end) than the hexploration part already was.
Am I reading this right that the only difference between a Baykok and a Wandering Baykok is the latter is rare? Same goes for the Gibbering Skull Swarm. I guess Alex just hates mastermind rogues that much.
I ran this yesterday, with very similar issues to what is discussed here.
My party also did Lookout, "Oasis," Deskari's Gullet, and finished the game even though I told them to explore, so they ended up with only six treasure bundles and missed the Radiant Oath reputation points.
Also, the enemies in the Gullet were very tanky, so those fights took forever. The threat of the hazard also caused them to ignore all exploration and investigation and rush to the last battle.
While they did very well on the chase, it's also super confusing because the scaling encounter for it says to add additional enemies, and it's not a fight? I ended up ignoring the Challenge Point scaling and running it as written.
Lastly, because they had barely explored before encountering the Gullet, they had no idea about their divine assistance until the snow leopards appeared in the final chase scene, so that was really confusing for them.
This is a scenario that had a lot of potential but ultimately fell flat and was disappointing for my players.
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What leopards? The only thing on our map was a lake, which turned out to be ruins in a swamp. We only found the outlook by chance, traipsing what felt like over the whole map, because we failed perception in the target hex. It just felt so pointless, and we still missed three treasure bundles. There needs to be a way to mark which hexes have been checked.
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Uchuujin wrote:
While they did very well on the chase, it's also super confusing because the scaling encounter for it says to add additional enemies, and it's not a fight? I ended up ignoring the Challenge Point scaling and running it as written.
The Foundry module did fix this, although I didn't see it noted where the Foundry module adjustments were to be noted. It scales there as a chase usually does, increasing the DCs or Chase Points per obstacle. Basically the same specs per challenge point band as low tier.
Lorespire does have a section on moving Treasure Bundles.
Lorespire wrote: However, awarding fewer than the maximum Treasure Bundles is not a punitive tool. Unless recovering a Treasure Bundle is tied to succeeding at key skill checks or making key choices, PCs who overcome an encounter with creative solutions earn the same reward they would have earned by defeating that foe in combat. Adventures call out special exceptions, such as treasure only accessible if the PCs investigate a particular secret door or agree to an NPC’s proposal. If the PCs’ actions allow them to bypass the area or encounter where they would have the chance to recover the treasure, it’s okay to relocate the opportunity to a later point with similar requirements to recover the treasure.
Example: The PCs are supposed to attack a keep, and they successfully trick the guards into escorting the PCs to the final encounter with the evil warlord rather than fighting their way in. By tricking the guards, the PC not only skip the guards fight (which has 2 Treasure Bundles associated with it) and never have a chance to pick up the easily-discovered magic wand in the guardroom (1 additional Treasure Bundle), but they also skip a fight with a minotaur (who guards coins representing 2 Treasure Bundles). The PCs receive credit for these rewards anyway; they overcame the guards encounter, bypassed the minotaur, and would have easily recovered the treasure afterward.
I've always been a little unclear on how this is supposed to work. What's the difference between "making key choices" and "creative solutions" that "bypass"?
But I think if that applies anywhere, it's here... right?
Although that doesn't help with missing all the social encounters for the Radiant Oath objective.
Its a minor issue compared to all the ones in the scenario but the Champion of deskari creatures do not seem to work as intended. Becuase they have Scythes they can not wield their shields and therefore can not cast the shield of spirits spells that they have
Just played this at the 7-8 tier (13 CP): While I enjoyed the story very much, there are a few issues, as has already been mentioned.
The lore and story elements you get from the hexploration part are really cool, though the fact that chasing those goes so hard against your main objective, chafes.
For me, there are just way too many combats against tank type enemies, which makes fights last forever, even if you can basically go all out on combats in the hexploration phase. And in the dungeon, with higher CP, the number of enemies just doesn't work in the cramped spaces, making the fights last even longer. Honestly, this could easily have been split over two scenarios: A lower level one to find the lair, and a second higher level one to do the dungeon crawl.
Second, with so many DC's that are at Level DC +5 (ie. Very Hard) that more than one person must succeed at, it comes over as if the scenario was retrofitted from a level 9-12 to a 7-10 without adjusting the DC's.
I'm now curious as to why Hesla needed to go to Absalom before doing this though.
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