Hero Points and Limit Breaks

[A Butter Idea]

The intent of this variant rule is to give struggling player parties sudden bursts of power to overcome unexpectedly dangerous situations, and give players a preview of abilities they may acquire at future levels.

Under this variant rule, a player can spend Hero Points in one of two ways: to lose the dying condition and stabilize at 0 HP (this costs only 1 Hero Point), or to invoke a Limit Break (this costs all of their Hero Points).

A player can only choose to invoke a Limit Break when the entire party is bloodied or worse, or a party wipe seems likely under the current circumstances. The GM is the final arbiter for when the use of a Limit Break is appropriate.

On the player's turn, if they choose to invoke a Limit Break, the GM searches their rulebooks or Archives of Nethys for a feature or feat up to 2 levels higher than the player's character level, or a spell up to 1 rank higher than what the player's character can cast; the GM must choose something which is likely to be very effective against the most dangerous threat present, and the player must meet the prerequisites and requirements (except the level requirement).

The player gains access to the chosen ability for a brief time -- usually until the end of the player's current turn, but can be up to 1 minute depending on the nature of the ability and the severity of the situation -- and the GM instructs the player how to use the ability. When the Limit Break ability is used and/or while it is in effect, whenever the ability requires checks of any kind, the Limit Break user and their allies cannot get results worse than success, and the user's enemies cannot get results better than failure.

Over the course of a campaign, each time a player uses a Limit Break, the GM should try to select a different ability each time. The player should not be able to choose or predict which ability they will temporarily receive. This helps to maintain a sense of unpredictability and wonder each time a Limit Break is invoked.

[Teridax]

The Limit Break idea I find really interesting, as it looks like an interesting way of injecting some added versatility into encounters. I'd be keen to playtest that, as a single feat a couple levels above the party's may not necessarily be so impactful as to make up for the cost and restrictions, but the core idea of breaking through your limitations and developing a new ability under duress is an awesome narrative trope that I think absolutely merits inclusion.

One feat I'd look up for inspiration is Claim Cardinal Domains, a feat for the Godling mythic destiny: specifically, you can leave some of your divine domains open, and can use a Mythic Point to claim a domain at any point as a permanent character choice. I think this hits a very similar vibe to the above, and I think it'd be neat to have the ability you use with Limit Break become a feat or spell you integrate into your character later on in some form.

[A Butter Idea]

Teridax wrote:

I'd be keen to playtest that, as a single feat a couple levels above the party's may not necessarily be so impactful as to make up for the cost and restrictions

That might be a good thing, though.

If you're familiar with Final Fantasy 8, then you probably know about a certain degenerate strategy in which players intentionally leave their characters at low health in order to continually trigger opportunities to unleash their massively overpowered limit breaks. I want to avoid encouraging that same sort of metagaming with this house rule. If limit breaks are too powerful, then the players may choose to deliberately leave their characters under-healed (or worse, attack each other until they're bloodied). I would consider that to be a design failure.

Limit breaks should not be so powerful that they're worth intentionally suffering damage for, but should be powerful enough to create a sense of awe and spectacle.

[Teridax]

Right, but whether those feats would generate a spectacle at all is my question. If you’re spending potentially three Hero Points while in a bad situation and all you end up doing is a Strike with a rider attached that ends up missing, that’s not going to be a bang so much as a fizzle. If the tradeoff is so harsh that you’re better off saving those Hero Points to recover better or reroll in nearly all cases, then what you end up having is a homebrew variant so niche it may as well not exist.

[A Butter Idea]

Fair point. I originally proposed that all checks relating to the limit break should be guaranteed no worse than successes for allies and no better than failures for enemies. Do you think it should be more extreme? All limit break checks should be critical successes for allies and critical failures for enemies?

Or maybe, the Hero Point cost should be variable. Spending 1 Hero Point could trigger minor limit breaks (regular success/failure with a small chance to critical). Whereas spending 3 Hero Points could trigger major limit breaks (guaranteed criticals).

[Teridax]

Setting a minimum/maximum on the dice roll could certainly help, but you'd also want to make sure that's only something you can do with a lot of Hero Points, as opposed to just one. I also don't think fixing the degrees of success necessarily addresses the key point here, which is that spells 1 rank above what you can currently cast and feats 2 levels above your current level aren't such a huge power increase as to make for a large spectacle. If it were 5 ranks above or 10 levels higher then yeah, for sure, but then we hit that point you mentioned where you don't want the team intentionally getting really injured just to start throwing out desiccates at level 5.

Going back to Claim Cardinal Domains, this is making me think of a possible variant you could have where instead of choosing a feat immediately on level-up, or adding spells to your repertoire, you can instead leave the feat open. You could then spend a Hero Point later on to immediately fill in the option with your choice, which becomes permanent at that moment. That way, you could get the cool cinematic flavor of developing a new ability under duress, and at a reasonable price too, but without it needing to be this huge fight-swinging spectacle every time either.