War of Immortals now on AoN!


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hurrah!

Thank you SO much for your hard work, Alex, Andreas, Devin, Federico, Jonny, Kao, Mark, Milan, and others!


It is going to be nice to have to not pull out a physical book to look up "okay, does the animist archetype work with this character at all mechanically" a thing I have done a couple of times.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
It is going to be nice to have to not pull out a physical book to look up "okay, does the animist archetype work with this character at all mechanically" a thing I have done a couple of times.

Pathbuilder for me. Which is quite a bit worse because the information is not searchable or able to be found in any meaningful logical process.

So yes. Much appreciation to the AoN team and to Paizo for allowing the rules to be freely available.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One thing this reminds me of is how much I love the Mythic Destinies also functioning as Archetypes, even sans the full mythic powerset, it really adds a lot to the game to have level 12 archetypes themed this way and with some cool abilities.


I think that's still my favorite part of the mythic rules, all told. I like Mythic Points and such as well, but it's a big plus for me that these options can be used in or out of a mythic game. I have a character who would absolutely love to be a wildspell.


The Exemplar looks interesting. I wonder how good it is in play. Looks pretty powerful.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
The Exemplar looks interesting. I wonder how good it is in play. Looks pretty powerful.

I'm in the process of making one and I gotta say, I'm pretty excited about all of the mechanical options available to the character, even at level 1 (am building to level 7).

For example, say I start a round of combat next to an enemy who just ambushed the party and injured me. I start with Barrow's Edge as part of initiative to get a boost to my weapon damage. I strike the foe who hurt me once for my first action, then use the Drink of my Foes transcendence to heal for my second action. This shunts my power (into my skin), granting me damage resistance against my foe's attacks with Skin Hard as Horn during others' turns. For my final action, I raise my shield. Between my damage resistance, shield AC bonus, and reaction to Shield Block absorbing even more damage, I'm a pretty beefy tank (who can also hit hard and self heal).

If the enemy instead decides to move around me to attack my allies, I can shift my power into my Fetching Bangles activating Crash Against Me as I do so. This gives me damage resistance until the start of my next turn, allowing me to maintain my protection despite no longer having empowered skin. Furthermore, if the enemy attacks me and fails to hurt me, he takes a penalty to attacks with that weapon. With my bangles so empowered, I have a 10-foot aura of save or disrupt your attempt to move away from me. Even if you do manage to escape and close in on one of my allies, I can use my bangles' Embrace the Destiny transcendence ability on my next turn to drag you right back to me. If I'm willing to give up the damage resistance by using Shift Immanence instead of Crash Against Me, I can drag you back immediately, without waiting for the next turn.

And that's all at 1st-level! Quite a fun tank character if I do say so.

Adding in The Proud root epithet at level 3 to create aggro effects against enemies and Born of the Bones of the Earth dominion epithet at 7 to create an area of difficult terrain around me every time I Spark Transcendence just serves to make me a really high end tank capable of drawing enemies in and trapping them.

And that's just one possible low-level build out of many! Another exemplar could go a COMPLETELY different route.

Silver Crusade

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Deriven Firelion wrote:
The Exemplar looks interesting. I wonder how good it is in play. Looks pretty powerful.

If definitely a top tier martial but probably NOT overpowered. About on par with a fighter or barbarian although it has more flexibility.

The archetype is, of course, insanely broken and no sane GM should allow it in as written.


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pauljathome wrote:
The archetype is, of course, insanely broken and no sane GM should allow it in as written.

I'm a sane GM and I'm thinking about structuring a campaign around "everybody gets the exemplar archetype as their free archetype." But you absolutely shouldn't allow it in most contexts, since "one ikon for a level 2 feat" is the single most powerful feat in the game.

Silver Crusade

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
The archetype is, of course, insanely broken and no sane GM should allow it in as written.
I'm a sane GM and I'm thinking about structuring a campaign around "everybody gets the exemplar archetype as their free archetype." But you absolutely shouldn't allow it in most contexts, since "one ikon for a level 2 feat" is the single most powerful feat in the game.

Yeah, that is quite different and sounds cool. Sorry if I incorrectly labelled you "not sane" :-).

Watch out for 1/2 ling rogues with filchers fork, mind you. Even by Ikon standards it is (as written) overpowered :-(


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Just so you know, there were some missing content and errors.

As of today, those were fixed :)


pauljathome wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
The archetype is, of course, insanely broken and no sane GM should allow it in as written.
I'm a sane GM and I'm thinking about structuring a campaign around "everybody gets the exemplar archetype as their free archetype." But you absolutely shouldn't allow it in most contexts, since "one ikon for a level 2 feat" is the single most powerful feat in the game.

Yeah, that is quite different and sounds cool. Sorry if I incorrectly labelled you "not sane" :-).

Watch out for 1/2 ling rogues with filchers fork, mind you. Even by Ikon standards it is (as written) overpowered :-(

I'm not seeing it. The Filcher's fork is a Starknife sidegrade, and any Exemplar can use the Starknife. Sure, backstabber has some minor synergy with the Shadow Sheath, but that's still just 1-2 extra damage.

Silver Crusade

Squark wrote:
pauljathome wrote:


Watch out for 1/2 ling rogues with filchers fork, mind you. Even by Ikon standards it is (as written) overpowered :-(
I'm not seeing it. The Filcher's fork is a Starknife sidegrade, and any Exemplar can use the Starknife. Sure, backstabber has some minor synergy with the Shadow Sheath, but that's still just 1-2 extra damage.

Its mostly that Shadow Sheathe itself is overpowered. Although the wording very, very strongly implies that it is intended for thrown weapons it doesn't actually SAY that. So, anybody hitting a flat footed target get +3 per dice extra damage. The backstabber is just a little frosting on top of a VERY nice cake.

It makes for a VERY nice switch hitting build.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Don't forget Mirrored Aegis providing a +1 circumstance bonus to AC in a 15 ft emanation (and the auto repair for just maintaining the divine spark in the item for 10 minutes while the character performs other actions).

The transcendence ability on a Mortal Harvest ikon can also be useful in a fight against more than one foe; for example, when paired with Sudden Charge (fighter or barbarian 1st level feat, Exemplar Dedication at 2nd).

Dark Archive

pauljathome wrote:
Squark wrote:
pauljathome wrote:


Watch out for 1/2 ling rogues with filchers fork, mind you. Even by Ikon standards it is (as written) overpowered :-(
I'm not seeing it. The Filcher's fork is a Starknife sidegrade, and any Exemplar can use the Starknife. Sure, backstabber has some minor synergy with the Shadow Sheath, but that's still just 1-2 extra damage.

Its mostly that Shadow Sheathe itself is overpowered. Although the wording very, very strongly implies that it is intended for thrown weapons it doesn't actually SAY that. So, anybody hitting a flat footed target get +3 per dice extra damage. The backstabber is just a little frosting on top of a VERY nice cake.

It makes for a VERY nice switch hitting build.

Shadow Sheath wrote:
Usage a holster or sheath shaped for a one-handed thrown weapon of light Bulk or less.
Shadow Sheath also wrote:
You can spend 1 minute to load a weapon meeting the shadow sheath’s usage requirements into the sheath, which is hidden somewhere on your person. As long as the shadow sheath is on your person, you can Interact to draw an exact copy of the weapon from thin air. 

So you can draw a copy of a weapon that is stored in the sheath. The sheath only accepts thrown weapons, as described in Usage. I don't see how you're getting out of using a Thrown weapon. All of the other effects are contingent upon using a weapon conjured from the sheath, which requires a weapon stowed in the sheath, which only accepts thrown weapons.

Am I missing something?

Or are you inferring that the Shadow Sheath's abilities should only work while throwing such a weapon?
I can get behind that from the description of the Transcendence ability, but not the others.


Deriven Firelion wrote:
The Exemplar looks interesting. I wonder how good it is in play. Looks pretty powerful.

It's pretty good, yeah. A lot of choices to make for level 1 with ikon selection. A few ikons are very deadly (Gleaming Blade's transcendence in particular is very strong), but I'd say the weapon ikons are mostly balanced, with some of them trading raw damage for other utility. Worn/body ikons are a bit more of a mixed bag, but lots of interesting and useful options.

The core mechanic of switching between modes plays very well, and also somewhat restrains the power of weapon ikons since you'd burn an extra action to use their transcendence every round (you can benefit from their passive damage every turn easily, but +2/die is the baseline and that's basically in line with other class damage boosts).

I do love that it can be built for basically any weapon style effectively. A sword and board build can be extremely durable, and it can even use reload weapons well after level 3 (Deft epithet gives a free reload on transcend to smooth out action economy. It also gives a free weapon draw... but Shadow Sheathe mostly solves that anyways for throwing weapons)


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pauljathome wrote:
Squark wrote:
pauljathome wrote:


Watch out for 1/2 ling rogues with filchers fork, mind you. Even by Ikon standards it is (as written) overpowered :-(
I'm not seeing it. The Filcher's fork is a Starknife sidegrade, and any Exemplar can use the Starknife. Sure, backstabber has some minor synergy with the Shadow Sheath, but that's still just 1-2 extra damage.

Its mostly that Shadow Sheathe itself is overpowered. Although the wording very, very strongly implies that it is intended for thrown weapons it doesn't actually SAY that. So, anybody hitting a flat footed target get +3 per dice extra damage. The backstabber is just a little frosting on top of a VERY nice cake.

It makes for a VERY nice switch hitting build.

Light bulk throwing weapons are not exactly tearing up the metagame. Dex builds need a bit of extra damage to keep up with strength builds. One extra damage per weapon die tied to attacking flat footed targets is fine

A rogue with a shadow sheath is problematic, but no more so than a barbarian with a gleaming blade.

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