Shillelagh - WTF?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

In the spell description for shillelagh, I see Will negates (object). Was this removed in errata? It makes no sense.

It has to be cast on your weapon, and if it is an attended weapon, that means it gets YOUR save bonus to resist YOUR spell. If it is unattended it gets no save, but can it really count as YOUR weapon if you have put it down so you can touch it with the spell?

You can automatically choose to fail your saving throw, but apparently you can't make that choice for an object. Can you choose at least to not grant it your save bonus?

I can't see any reason why there should be a saving throw listed for the object that is the target of this spell. Did the designers really not want the spell to work a large percentage of the time, when all it does is add +1 to hit and 1d6+1 to damage to a nonmagical item for 1 min/level?


The (object) means it only gets a saving throw if it is magic or if they are attended. Since the spell does not work on magic items that means only the second part applies. In that case you use the creatures saving throw which they can choose to fail.

The Exchange

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
The (object) means it only gets a saving throw if it is magic or if they are attended. Since the spell does not work on magic items that means only the second part applies. In that case you use the creatures saving throw which they can choose to fail.

Then it is still pointless to have a saving throw listed, because it only affects the caster's weapon and they always want the spell to succeed.

I have seen other postings suggesting you cannot voluntarily fail the saving throw on behalf of the item (as the only possible reason why a save is listed). If it is true that you can only voluntarily fail your own saves (not those of your items) then you would have to drop the item to be sure of affecting it, and pick it back up again (requiring extra actions and possibly provoking additional attacks). This presumes it even remains your item after you drop it, as the spell only affects YOUR weapon.

The question is: why is there a saving throw listed at all for this spell? Under what conditions is it intended for the weapon to make the save and not be affected?


The reason for listing it is because that is how other similar spells are done.

There could be circumstances where you are not allowed to automatically fail your saves. A barbarian with the superstition rage power must make saving throws to resist all spells. If such a barbarian had an item that allowed him to use Shillelagh, they would not be allowed to automatically fail the save.

Liberty's Edge

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There are several spells where that line was omitted because of the "there is no need for it" reasoning and players have found a way to abuse it, so it is refreshing to see it even if there is no apparent reason for it.

About the voluntary failing the save, when an object is attended, you are making the save if the item is non-magical, and without a doubt, you can voluntarily fail it.

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