Going over the Hive stuff from Pathfinder.
The two are very similar in theme, if not game mechanics, and fill a similar role. Are they supposed to be the same thing or does the Swarm simply replace the Hive?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Going over the Hive stuff from Pathfinder.
The two are very similar in theme, if not game mechanics, and fill a similar role. Are they supposed to be the same thing or does the Swarm simply replace the Hive?
no.
"The Hive" is, iirc, supposed to be a way to fight xenomorphs. Similar to X-Men's "The Brood"
"The Swarm" is a malevolent hive mind which controls an insectoid space faring race - which have independent thought, but it's just all focused on EVIL due to the hive mind's influence. In theory, you could remove Swarm components from the hive mind's control and they'd be able to have healthy lives, like the Shirren.
No, their origins are distinctly different. The Hive were related by a species known as the Anunnaki as one of their numerous evolutionary experiments. As Yakman noted, they are very much a pastiche of the xenomorphs from the Alien (complete with parasitic lifecycle), with the Anunnaki standing in for the engineers.
The Swarm, however, were a naturally occurring species that were once individual minds in the distant past known as the kucharn. The goddess Hylax, the Forever Queen, once ruled them benevolently as a mortal but staggeringly powerful queen. Some of her followers wished to use her as a basis for a hive mind and when she refused, they fused their minds together and became the Swarm. She could not bring herself to destroy the young hive mind out of love for her people and a hope that some of them would return to her.
She was proven correct with time as the shirren managed to break the hive mind's control and escape into the wider galaxy.
If the Hive taps into Alien, then the Swarm are much more like the bugs from Starship Troopers or the Tyranids from WH40k
|
|
No, their origins are distinctly different. The Hive were related by a species known as the Anunnaki as one of their numerous evolutionary experiments. As Yakman noted, they are very much a pastiche of the xenomorphs from the Alien (complete with parasitic lifecycle), with the Anunnaki standing in for the engineers.
The Swarm, however, were a naturally occurring species that were once individual minds in the distant past known as the kucharn. The goddess Hylax, the Forever Queen, once ruled them benevolently as a mortal but staggeringly powerful queen. Some of her followers wished to use her as a basis for a hive mind and when she refused, they fused their minds together and became the Swarm. She could not bring herself to destroy the young hive mind out of love for her people and a hope that some of them would return to her.
She was proven correct with time as the shirren managed to break the hive mind's control and escape into the wider galaxy.
If the Hive taps into Alien, then the Swarm are much more like the bugs from Starship Troopers or the Tyranids from WH40k
yeah... I don't even think that the Swarm is like the Tyranids / Vesk / SSTroopers bugs.
The various components are all aware and conscious of their own individuality, at least, that's what it seemed like to me when I ran ATTACK! and delved into the lore. Like... the lower level ones will throw themselves en masse against enemies, but the others? They act with their own initiative, seem to have personalities, etc. There's a hierarchy / differentiation there which isn't necessarily like that of an ant-hive, although in some ways it does resemble it. I mean... that's what the God-Host and its priests are, after all.
We had an NPC [shows up in Book 1, carried him through Book 2, met him again in Book 6] who was an escaped prisoner. And he discussed in Book 6 what his experience in prison was like, how you have to accommodate yourself to this system and it warps your ethics because that's the prism from which you see the world. And there's no way out. [And, if my players read this, "I'm not going back!"]
And to me, that's really what the Swarm's Hive Mind [forget what it's called in Book 5] is, or at least, what it does. It warps the ethics and perceptions of its components to such an extent that all they can do is bad things to everyone else. It crushes independence and community in favor of subjugation and control.
Ultimately, at the end of Attack!
going to the 'post-credits' we ended up with millions of surviving swarm components on the ruined husk of Suskillon, and one of the PCs, a priest Shirren precog of Hylax decided to rebuild the cathedral, and the now... "shirrenized?" ex-swarm components began gathering to him.
I dunno. Run them how you want. But I thought that my solution was more interesting... which might explain why I ran it at my table ;-)
No, their origins are distinctly different. The Hive were related by a species known as the Anunnaki as one of their numerous evolutionary experiments. As Yakman noted, they are very much a pastiche of the xenomorphs from the Alien (complete with parasitic lifecycle), with the Anunnaki standing in for the engineers.
The Swarm, however, were a naturally occurring species that were once individual minds in the distant past known as the kucharn. The goddess Hylax, the Forever Queen, once ruled them benevolently as a mortal but staggeringly powerful queen. Some of her followers wished to use her as a basis for a hive mind and when she refused, they fused their minds together and became the Swarm. She could not bring herself to destroy the young hive mind out of love for her people and a hope that some of them would return to her.
She was proven correct with time as the shirren managed to break the hive mind's control and escape into the wider galaxy.
If the Hive taps into Alien, then the Swarm are much more like the bugs from Starship Troopers or the Tyranids from WH40k
yeah... I don't even think that the Swarm is like the Tyranids / Vesk / SSTroopers bugs.
The various components are all aware and conscious of their own individuality, at least, that's what it seemed like to me when I ran ATTACK! and delved into the lore. Like... the lower level ones will throw themselves en masse against enemies, but the others? They act with their own initiative, seem to have personalities, etc. There's a hierarchy / differentiation there which isn't necessarily like that of an ant-hive, although in some ways it does resemble it. I mean... that's what the God-Host and its priests are, after all.
We had an NPC [shows up in Book 1, carried him through Book 2, met him again in Book 6] who was an escaped prisoner. And he discussed in Book 6 what his experience in prison was like, how you have to accommodate yourself to this system and it warps your ethics because that's the...
The swarm are interesting. Initially I thought they were just tyranid type enemy but the shirren clearly was sentient and somehow broke free. There does seem to be some kind of mental compulsion/dominance of swarm components as the shirren are addicted to choice now which indicates when they were in the swarm they had no ability to choose. Their equipment is mostly biological but they also are capable of making more tech ships although we even see shirren ships are very hybrid tech/biological based.