
Captain Morgan |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

This seems like a really silly time to do it, but after talking to some friends about the Guns and Gears remaster I felt inspired.
Captain Morgan's Treatise on the Inventor
The biggest changes are:
1. Grants significantly more modifications to allow deeper customization.
2. Eliminates the armor/construct/weapon innovation. Every inventor gets an exo-suit and any player can mix and match from protective, utility, and weaponry modifications.
The construct companion is now granted by a first level feat, a la the champion, with a single modification. You get an additional construct modification when you take a construct feat.
3. Overdrive now grants its bonuses on a failure (but not a critical failure) until the end of your next turn, a la the Swashbuckler. Improves consistency.
4. The Unstable trait’s flat check now starts at 5 and then goes up by 5 on every unstable action you use. Your second action will be DC 10, your third DC 15, and your fourth DC 20. Rebalancing with the remaster refocus changes in mind.
5. Guns and crossbows work better with the inventor.
I tried to make it obvious where I changed things, and highlighted things which were particularly new in blue. I haven't play tested this or thought through every possible modification interaction, and these are a looooot of changes all at once. Also, I've As such, I expect some may need to be walked back. But I think they at least succeed at my primary goal: far more customization to support the fantasy of innovation.
Oh, and I probably missed some typos. This was like nine hours of continuous writing so I'm bleary eyed.

exequiel759 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

I'll give some feedback after a first reading of this.
I like the idea of the exo-armor, but I don't like the idea of every inventor having it. I honestly would make it just a 1st-level feat that works like the kineticist's armor that use your own armor proficiencies to scale.
I welcome the changes to overdrive but I think they are little conservative. Overdrive is really easy to compare against a thaumaturge's exploit weakness or a barbarian's rage, and almost at every level overdrive is below both in terms of damage. I would either turn the critical succes into the success, the success into the failure, and the failure into the critical failure. The whole "you take fire damage if you crit fail" is just a feels bad on a feature that's already on the weak side when compared to other damage steroids of the game. Alternatively, I would lower the DC to be an easy DC for your level so it becomes way easier to crit succeed in the middle to high levels.
I like unstable. I personally would change it to something like the new cursebound because I don't like the idea of "failing" to use something, but this version is fine.
Everything else seems fine. I would probably change a few things, but I like the overall result way more than the current inventor.

Captain Morgan |

There were several reasons I made exo-armor a primary class feature rather than optional. Most of them are immersion based. Several are because of problems I had with weapon innovation. I'm not saying exo-armor is the right solution for everyone, but I feel pretty strongly it is the right solution for me. :)
A lot of it is that the exo-armor is really just a flavor thing that (IMO) more plausibly explains things the inventor could always do.
1. Overdrive tells us we already sort of had it. I lifted this language straight from overdrive: "You have a bevy of smaller devices of your own invention, from muscle stimulants to concussive pistons. When it's necessary, you can throw them into overdrive to assist you in combat." I find it a lot easier to picture this as power armor than just a bunch of rando gizmos that produce the same effect.
2. I could never picture how weapon innovations in your hand unleash an omni-directional explosion without hurting you, but I find that easier to accept when it comes from armor.
3. A primary goal was to give inventors more modifications as they level up, but weapons don't really have enough diversity in mod options to support that. The initial mods have too much overlap (how many add versatile or modular?) and are too niche to base a primary class choice around.
4. I dislike how the default assumption is that your scholar who devoted their entire life to SCIENCE! is also a physical combatant with the strength of a body builder or the dexterity of a lifelong archer before you touch their class features. Thats fine for some characters, but shouldn't be the default. The class should support concepts like someone reclaiming the function of lost or paralyzed limbs (a la Curt Connors), or just nerds who want to stick it to the jocks that picked on them.

Captain Morgan |

I'm also not against boosting the overdrive damage per se, but I don't feel confident or motivated enough to crunch the numbers and see how it looks in practice. I think lagging behind the barbarian a little in damage is fine, especially with these changes, because the class gains a lot more versatility than a barbarian as they level up.
Thaumaturge has versatility in spades as well, but I'm not sure their damage lead is that significant. Until like level 8, success overdrive usually gives one damage less than personal antithesis and one point more on a crit success. The crit success merely breaks even with personal antithesis at level 8, but then at level 9 inventor gets Offensive Boost and pulls ahead even on a basic success until level 12, when you're looking at 7.5 average vs 8 damage. But then inventor has solid odds on a crit (+25 vs DC 30) which puts damage up to 10.5 on average.
Thaumaturge might be doing more damage with Mortal Weakness, but the Inventor has pretty great weakness AND resistance options through modifications, offensive boost, variable core, and so on. And this doesn't factor in things like inventor getting backstabber at level 7, or being able to apply to apply their damage at longer range with two handed weapons. (Though I guess within shorter distances implement's empowerment makes thrown weapons really strong, but thrown opens up a bunch of build considerations I don't want to get into here.) Inventor also has explosion for variety and other unstable actions further pushing their damage ahead. Have you ever taken the inventor archetype on a regular martial? It is kind of absurd how much better an inventor's feats are. Construct companions are also significant DPR boosters through flanking and the occasional successful strike.
The DPR comparison looks pretty good to me, and Inventor also gets to fly around on hyper boosters with DR and what not.

Captain Morgan |

I suppose you could go back to the 3 different innovation subclasses but it would be a significant mechanical downgrade, and remove a lot of customization.
The reaction is interesting. You're not the only person pushing back on mandatory exo-armor. It seems people feel pigeonholed with it, even though being able to choose from all three innovation paths offers much more customization. I guess there's thematic baggage, but the "body builder scientist" feels like a much worse thematic limitation to me. I wonder if people would still have this reaction if the class was initially built this way.

exequiel759 |

A thing to take into account is that thaumaturges have implement's empowerment, which passively gives you the same bonus to damage than overdrive does on a success and it scales way better. I also made a post a looong time ago (I'm on the phone and about to sleep so I can't search it now) in which I compared overdrive damage to all the barbarian's rages and I'm pretty sure besides fury and spirit the inventor was always lagging behind in damage.
I also think people wouldn't have liked exo-armor even if it came in the class. I personally don't like having an armor being shoehorned into me if I'm not building my character around that concept. I also don't think its problematic because there's classes that have good physical stats and they aren't martial warriors either. A rogue, for example, is commonly depicted as a street urchin, yet somehow they manage to start with the highest Dex possible or even Str for ruffians. Also, all the innovations have combat uses, so it kinda makes sense for the inventor to be a capable combatant since they are the ones using their stuff (other people literally can't). I feel that, much like how disabilities are up to you to RP in PF2e (because mechanically a monk in a wheelchair is as fast as a monk with two perfect legs) a disabled scientist that recovers mobility from a limb or that replaces a lost one could also be explained through flavor too (you ingested the equivalent of the super soldier serum, you made a prosthetic limb, you took a construct's eye and replaced yours, or your exo-armor).

Captain Morgan |

A thing to take into account is that thaumaturges have implement's empowerment, which passively gives you the same bonus to damage than overdrive does on a success and it scales way better.
I did take it into account, and it largely doesn't change anything. Implement's empowerment is just a patch to make up for the thaumaturge functionally being a one armed combatant. +2 damage per dice is the difference between a longsword and a greatsword. Inventors hands can use freely and can just use a greatsword. Or double slice. Or sword and board. The only time empowerment is a significant advantage is thrown weapons, which can genuinely do sick mid-range damage. But this also has significant build costs, like taking away from charisma to get both dexterity and strength, getting quick draw on a throwers bandolier, or giving up a property rune slot. Meanwhile you wind up with significantly shorter range than a two handed range weapon, especially using the new mod Reload Cycle (crossbow without reload is d8 at 120 feet) or the buffed range finder (doubles range increment while adding backstabber.)
I also made a post a looong time ago (I'm on the phone and about to sleep so I can't search it now) in which I compared overdrive damage to all the barbarian's rages and I'm pretty sure besides fury and spirit the inventor was always lagging behind in damage.
Superstition is usually equal damage to spirit, and animal has even less. At low levels most are about even with overdrive, pull ahead at 7th, but then fall behind at 9 with offensive boost. Of course, the inventor lags in strength at some of those levels, so their DPR will be lower... But as I said before, that's fine. You're comparing the highest damage striker in the game to a class with a free skill to legendary, built in AoE options, a potent but disposable minion, plus options for healing, 30 foot vertical leaps at level 1, quickening themselves, permanent see invisibility, permanent flight, legendary Disable Device with Crafting... And this is without touching the modifications, which these house rules give you 16 of instead of the base 3. There are plenty of ways to snag more damage there, including versatile damage types, backstabber, extra property runes, and what not. Expecting overdrive to overtake rage doesn't feel realistic to me.
I also think people wouldn't have liked exo-armor even if it came in the class. I personally don't like having an armor being shoehorned into me if I'm not building my character around that concept.
Every non-monk martial has armor shoehorned into their concept, though. It's a mathematical necessity, at least at low levels. All this does is combine the armor with things the inventor already has: "You have a bevy of smaller devices of your own invention, from muscle stimulants to concussive pistons. When it's necessary, you can throw them into overdrive to assist you in combat."
Am I the only one that finds overdrive vague, goofy, and a little hard to picture? Who thinks having all of these gizmos be part of the same power armor is both cooler and easier to picture? Because you could easily just remove all the exo-armor flavor and go back to the old overdrive hodgepodge. Mechanically, all the exo-armor did was let you use whatever armor you want (instead of the two models armor innovations allowed) + more room for modifications.
I also don't think its problematic because there's classes that have good physical stats and they aren't martial warriors either. A rogue, for example, is commonly depicted as a street urchin, yet somehow they manage to start with the highest Dex possible or even Str for ruffians.
Rogues are commonly depicted as a urchins because the background is associated with pickpockets and cutpurses. Ruffians are leg-breakers for the mob. No cognitive dissonance here.
Also, all the innovations have combat uses, so it kinda makes sense for the inventor to be a capable combatant since they are the ones using their stuff (other people literally can't). I feel that, much like how disabilities are up to you to RP in PF2e (because mechanically a monk in a wheelchair is as fast as a monk with two perfect legs) a disabled scientist that recovers mobility from a limb or that replaces a lost one could also be explained through flavor too (you ingested the equivalent of the super soldier serum, you made a prosthetic limb, you took a construct's eye and replaced yours, or your exo-armor).
The thing is, you can still be a muscle boy beefcake scientist with exo-armor. Thematically and mechanically, it doesn't make that guy stronger than the shrimpy nerd in exo-armor, it just puts them both on even footing. Like how the super soldier serum makes whoever ingests it peak human-- it didn't matter that Steve Rodgers was a walking Kleenex before taking it.
You're right that all of this stuff could just be handled by flavor, though. All I was hoping to do was create a little more mechanical support for that flavor, with a little prompting to get creative juices flowing. And to hopefully have a better foundation for inclusivity, honestly.
A friend of mine told me about a wheelchair bound fellow playing in my friend's near future TTRPG campaign. The fellow wanted his disability reflected in his character, but also knew that a wheelchair wouldn't be practical for the adventure at hand. (And didn't want to use wheelchairs that could climb ladders like Paizo built in.) He landed on a set of power armor that gave him a full range of motion, but with a limited battery life. Without ample opportunity to plug in and recharge, he would be at risk of the armor dying and having a very challenging situation ahead of himself.
I had that fellow in mind when I wrote the exo-armor entry and the disability sidebar. I wanted something that could provide a similar solution to what he came up with, but open-ended enough to be flexible with how constantly one could wear the suit and how much assistance (if any) they might need outside of it.
That, and power armor is cool and we have a shockingly small amount of it for a game with clockwork constructs and whatnot.