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2e describes the staff sling as follows:
This staff ends in a Y-shaped split that cradles a sling.
This describes a slingshot - a modern weapon whose invention was dependent upon development of elastic materials, historically vulcanized rubber - but not a staff sling, which uses a straight staff with no fork. The writer likely confused these two weapons with one another thanks to the similar name - staff sling, slingshot - but they are different weapons and do not work much like one another except in that they both throw projectiles like stones or bullets from a pouch. The slingshot uses energy stored in the tension of the elastic cords attached to the pouch when you pull the pouch back and stretch them. The staff sling, like the regular sling and unlike the slingshot, is an arm-extension tool for throwing things; and like the sling, releasing the bullet is done by releasing one of the two cords, which need not be elastic.
The Y-shaped fork that is characteristic of a slingshot would impair a staff sling; if the fork were at a large angle, it might well prevent the weapon from working at all. With a straight staff, the loose cord slips off the staff's end at a consistent point in the throwing arc that depends on the cords' length, which allows the projectile to separate from the pouch. A Y-shaped end could prevent the loop from slipping off during the throw, in which case the shot would stay in the pouch. Even if, after hypothetically redesigning the business end of a staff sling to impair the release of the projectile, you were nevertheless still able to get it to release (perhaps by using a curved-Y shape so that the ends of the Y get back towards parallel with the throw), you'd then have the additional problem that the pouch releasing the bullet is now connected to the weapon no longer by a single cord tied at the centerline, but by a single cord connected to the weapon by a fork arm that is offset from its centerline and thus possibly able to drag the projectile slightly to one side during release, making the weapon no longer throw straight and true.
I'm sure the game will promptly collapse if this pressing issue is not addressed; please reprint immediately.
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Keep ‘em coming Coriat.
The Y-shaped staff is utter nonsense, and clearly fails at least one historical, one engineering/technical and possibly two physics tests. I blame hoopaks.
How about gnomish flickmace? I feel like real gnomes wouldn’t have had the flexibility to obtain the required technique
I think you're looking at it wrong: Think of it like a lacrosse stick where instead of a pocket netting there is a sling cradle/pouch. It doesn't HAVE to be a slingshot.
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With a straight staff, the loose cord slips off the staff's end at a consistent point in the throwing arc that depends on the cords' length, which allows the projectile to separate from the pouch.
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Just thought I'd point out that this is basically the design that is illustrated in the picture of the halfling sling staff that is shown on page 280 of PC1.
There's no Y-shaped, forked end, and you can clearly see how one string is permanently attached to the staff while the other ends in a loop which has simply been slid over a thin, extended part of the end of the staff where it will easily slip off when the sling is used.
So it seems like the verbal description of the weapon just wasn't updated to match the more realistic, post-remaster design.
And it's a sling staff, not a staff sling. :)
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I think you're looking at it wrong: Think of it like a lacrosse stick where instead of a pocket netting there is a sling cradle/pouch. It doesn't HAVE to be a slingshot.
This is always what I was picturing rather than the more historical version of the staff sling. Given what I have seen people do with lacross sticks it seems a viable type option plus basically can reload it without using your hands if there are rocks around.
I have always pictured it like Tasselhoff's Hoopak where the sling is more of a big pouch and not very deep so like Graystone said it works more like a lacrosse stick. Which I think that design did exist as a hunting weapon before the sport.
Here's an interesting video on the historical staff sling.
The ones shown in the video match the illustration of the halfling sling staff in PC1 rather than the book's written description, so I still think that in the rush to do the remaster someone just forgot to update the text to match the design change.
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It is very likely the description is just a carry over and the image is more likely but honestly either way works well enough. You have the real world model which basically is basically like a trebuchet arm for how the sling works or the more lacross model of a shaped pocket. Either would be effective in combat for flinging stones/bullets at very high velocities at opponents.
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All I can say is, yes when over analyzed in a scientific way it doesn't make a lot of sense.
So don't do that.
This is fantasy game with magic.
Next are you going to tell me you can't play wizards because it's scientifically inaccurate?
And who's to say Golarion doesn't have vulcanized rubber?
They have magic and eldritch knowledge. There's even super advanced science weapons and stuff floating around. A modern style slingshot is not impossible (but would probably be uncommon).
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If you want your sword to have a zig-zag in it so it looks like a lightning bolt, that is fine.
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If you want your sword to have a zig-zag in it so it looks like a lightning bolt, that is fine.
No, that is not allowed!
I think you're looking at it wrong: Think of it like a lacrosse stick where instead of a pocket netting there is a sling cradle/pouch. It doesn't HAVE to be a slingshot.
Something like a jai alai wicker at the end of a staff could be super deadly. The ones without a stick throw balls at up to 300km/hr!
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And who's to say Golarion doesn't have vulcanized rubber?
Or an alchemically treated vine that works similarly. Between magic, alchemy and a multitude of planes with different physics, something mundane like rubber shouldn't be surprising.
It is very likely the description is just a carry over and the image is more likely but honestly either way works well enough. You have the real world model which basically is basically like a trebuchet arm for how the sling works or the more lacross model of a shaped pocket. Either would be effective in combat for flinging stones/bullets at very high velocities at opponents.
Yeah it doesn't matter game-wise. People can go with whatever style they want. I had always pictured something like graystone's lacrosse stick, but now having seen the historical version in action, I think that's more to my taste.
Keep ‘em coming Coriat.
The Y-shaped staff is utter nonsense, and clearly fails at least one historical, one engineering/technical and possibly two physics tests. I blame hoopaks.
How about gnomish flickmace? I feel like real gnomes wouldn’t have had the flexibility to obtain the required technique
I want to agree. I'm sure that we can establish that real gnomes would have had no such thing, but I'm having trouble finding reliable information about real gnome flickmaces. Help!
Also, I'm marginally too young and/or unlettered to really get the Dragonlance references, having started gaming around when 3.0 came out, but I'm happy to also blame hoopaks on the general principle of mob justice.
(or in reality, the suggestion up thread that they just forgot to coordinate the description with the art, and the artist used a reference for what staff slings are but the writer didn't)
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All I can say is, yes when over analyzed in a scientific way it doesn't make a lot of sense.
So don't do that.
This is fantasy game with magic.
Next are you going to tell me you can't play wizards because it's scientifically inaccurate?
And who's to say Golarion doesn't have vulcanized rubber?
They have magic and eldritch knowledge. There's even super advanced science weapons and stuff floating around. A modern style slingshot is not impossible (but would probably be uncommon).
If the over-the-top prediction of doom I ended the first post on didn't give it away, I'm not taking this as seriously as all that, and I would like to pause here to reassure you that I'm not going to tell you you can't play wizards and I don't actually think this issue will bring Paizo's RPG empire crashing down.
But in all honesty I do think there's some room for fixing weird descriptions, and I don't really agree with what seems to be the implied thrust, that weapon descriptions are irrelevant and pointless in general because it's all fantasy with fireballs. If Paizo had instead confused the names of longbows and crossbows, for example - which share the bow element in their names, just like slingshots and staff slings share the sling element - well, if they'd published a longbow weapon description that talked about a handled frame, a tiller, and a trigger assembly, I would also come here to post about it.
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My favorite part of reading the second Dragonlance novel to my son was where the heroes were attacked by guards in Tarsis wielding…hauberks. Now that’s mob justice. I guess it’s…bludgeoning damage?
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My favorite part of reading the second Dragonlance novel to my son was where the heroes were attacked by guards in Tarsis wielding…hauberks. Now that’s mob justice. I guess it’s…bludgeoning damage?
That sounds like a horrible way to die. :)
(I'm guessing that 'hauberks' was meant to be 'halberds.')
My favorite part of reading the second Dragonlance novel to my son was where the heroes were attacked by guards in Tarsis wielding…hauberks. Now that’s mob justice. I guess it’s…bludgeoning damage?That sounds like a horrible way to die. :)
(I'm guessing that 'hauberks' was meant to be 'halberds.')
It also sounds like a very uncomfortable "weapon" to carry. I mean, forget greatswords and stupidly long rapiers...
If you want your sword to have a zig-zag in it so it looks like a lightning bolt, that is fine.
Why does readng you saying that make me think that it is decidedly not fine?
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People wield barnyard scythes in this game.
That being said, I do pretend the staff isn't forked, personally.
It's definitely taking after the Hoopak staff, which is an odd choice. I prefer the historical sling staff because it would be much more effective from a physics perspective. I would say the Hoopak staff should be one version with a lower range and damage but faster reload and the actual sling staff should have Volley and commensurate stats.
Not the biggest deal to imagine the existing sling staff as looking historically accurate though.
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Honestly, I want a sling subclass for gunslingers. Slings need more love--they're sort of viable for rogues and thaumaturges, but only vaguely. I've thought about making the subclass myself, even. I'd call it the. Slinger. Hm. Well, it needs work.
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That'll clarify it.
If you want your sword to have a zig-zag in it so it looks like a lightning bolt, that is fine.Why does readng you saying that make me think that it is decidedly not fine?
Well, the obvious problem with your zig-zag sword is that it's going to be hard to put in a scabbard. But realistically, it's just a variant of the khopesh sword (which itself came about from wanting a battle-axe to be easier to swing.)
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Honestly, I want a sling subclass for gunslingers. Slings need more love--they're sort of viable for rogues and thaumaturges, but only vaguely. I've thought about making the subclass myself, even. I'd call it the. Slinger. Hm. Well, it needs work.
Slingslinger?
Slinggunner?
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Honestly, I want a sling subclass for gunslingers. Slings need more love--they're sort of viable for rogues and thaumaturges, but only vaguely. I've thought about making the subclass myself, even. I'd call it the. Slinger. Hm. Well, it needs work.Slingslinger?
Slinggunner?
Funny thing is I basically wanted a slingslinger. I really want a halfing focused around sling use but the feat support for it is a bit iffy. Most of the ranged features are specific to bow or cross bow with a much more limited subset stuff that could apply to slings.
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Slingmaster.
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My son and I came up with the gunflinger who…throws…guns…at you. Then, when I recently read a headline that said “German police shoot man with axe” I started developing the axe-firing gun. Taking cues from the Borderlands 2 gun that…fired…swords. Fun times in fantasy lands…
I honestly don't get the sling bullying from those feat listings. XD
Eli Shane has a title for your new class...