Hello PF Nation!
My crew has just finished chapter 3 and is headed to the Storval pleateau to meet with Thousand Bones and try to learn more about Midnight's Teeth. I cant quite put my finger on why, but Chapter 4 isnt really resonating with me. It feels somehow disjointed and lacking connection to the broader story.
Has anyone re-written this chapter or done anything different. Ideas I've had are a quest on the spirit plane to witness Karzavon in the past, or finding another artifact of Karzavon that can teach them more about whats really going on with Ileosa.
Or did you really love HoA as written and can sell me on it?
Thanks!
So I am very much not sold on the Remaster version of History of Ashes, but I think the layout of the original printing if you can get access to those books is a much better throughline of a quest. It may still have the feel of "okay we're completing 5 quests in a row just to get something we need from one person" but it does a good job to get the party invested in a new community that is outside but still ultimately tied to their own.
Assuming you don't have the book, the party goes first to the Kallow Mounds to seek out their old but one time acquaintance Thousand Bones (from the end of book 1) who had previously expressed some wisdom and importance of himself to Korvosa, and likely simply knows more based on the information Neolandus Kalepopolis dug up for the party in book 3. Thousand Bones knows enough to point the party in the right direction, the Sklar Quah (the ancestral main clan that his clan broke off of), but they are xenophobic like Korvosa and would not just share the information with the party.
Instead, there is a gambit to shed off their outsider status, to follow in a tradition of a previously disgraced Shoanti who was eaten by a god-like monster known as Cindermaw and escaped its gullet alive. However, even if the party were to truly recreate this feat, they would not simply be believed as outsiders either. Instead they need the help of someone who has never told a lie in their life, a thruthsayer. They are rare even among the Shoanti, and Thousand Bones only knows of one, Akram of the Lyrune Quah.
The Lyrune Quah are still xenophobic like the Sklar Quah, but far less militaristic. Even better, they venerate Desna as a guiding part of their nomadic travels instead of the usual ancestor spirits the Shoanti worship, meaning there can be some common ground. Whether there is or isn't a Desnan in the party (though I always have Trinia be a Desnan and she almost always goes along with the party), the party would need another feat, albeit a less deadly one, to potentially garner the trust of the Lyrune Quah, or at least their Truthsayer. So the party should set out to first one pilgrimage site of the Lyrune Quah's Desna worship, a hidden prayer spot in the depths of an acropolis where they can receive a mark of Desna and then quickly to where the Lyrune Quah are likely to be soon: the House of the Moon, holy site that allows faithful of Desna to commune with her herald once a year.
This plays out in order as the party meeting Thousand Bones and chancing upon Krojun who acts as a verbal antagonist showing the task the party has in proving themselves. Then they are to visit the acropolis and where they realize they are both being stalked not just by their antagonist, but the mantis and something possibly even worse (Sial acts as a way to hint at grave importance of their line of quests). Having earned the mark of Desna by exploring the old sphere of Golarion, they can go to the house of the moon, and help the battle sisters there, further cementing their goal to aid the Shoanti and also seeing more and more of their culture. Finally, they will meet and recruit Akram to help them in their quest, find Cindermaw and hopeful escape alive (note, normally I buff Cindermaw to be far stronger than just modified purple worm, mainly so A the party doesn't accidentally kill her, but also B so the idea that she is a godlike being has more credibility when you read the Sun Shamman later is a druid 17). However, even having successfully done all of this, they have only come so far, they are no longer outsiders to all Shoanti, but they are not worthy of knowing the Sklar Quah's personal history, especially given how central the story of Kazavon is to their entire identity.
This is of course not the end of the road, now they may if they request attempt a coming of age trial to become a Sklar Quah and earn their place as a grown member of that tribe, and for the fact that they are not just young adults (or level 1-3) anymore, they are given the most grueling of the trials. Should at least one of the party succeed, they become Sklar Quah and the party may learn the information. In order to prepare, the Sun Shamman departs for the Kallow Mounds to commune with his ancestors, which is when the Mantis that have still been stalking the party think it the best time to strike. This is where I deviate a bit from strictly the original printing's path, but should the party be successful, they can finally learn the Sklar Quah history, influence their decision to go to war with Korvosa, and otherwise have made possible the chance for peaceful relations between the Shoanti and Korvosa. That connection of culture is not just important for having a good outcome for Korvosa, but should be seen as a moral good along the same lines of why the Sklar Quah ancestor went with Mandravious to defeat Kazavon in the first place.
Hopefully that convinces you to run it, with the old or new version (but in a stricter order of events). It's not that the new version is impossible to make work, and it does to a better job to show the party's progress in learning and becoming one with Shoanti culture, but it does obfuscate the most logical order of events with no real guidance for where to go.
As for how I deviate from the old books, I do genuinely like what they added with a return trip to Korvosa to deal with the growing Grey Maiden threat. In order to prompt the party to return of their own accord, when the midnight Mantis raid strikes, I usually have a team of mantis quickly dispatch and kidnap Krojun (invulnerable rager no Imp Uncanny Dodge rip) once they realize the fight isn't going their way. A few mantis, the gargoyles that survive and haven't yet fled, and the Cinderlander stay, but after a short skirmish, Cinnabar flees with the rest of the mantis and Krojun's unconscious body in tow, inviting them back to Korvosa if they wish to save him. Of course by now the party should have plenty of reason to be interested in saving Krojun (from his personal turnabout to the fact he is now their brother), but the Shaman won't give the information citing as above that he is their brother, and it was their fault he was captured, thus necessitating the party track him down. Cinnabar has given Krojun to the Mother of Thorns to act as bait should they use magic to try and find him, but if the party reaches out to Kroft, she can give them the necessary information to go to the Deathshead Vault and that quest line. Additionally, if you want to run Academy of Secrets, which now is a good time level wise to do so, you can have the Breaching Festival be the reason and cover story, and source of their diplomatic immunity for the party to be operating in Korvosa again without directly landing into a fight with Ileosa. Once the party has won the festival, they can use the time they have afterwards to collect their (mishandled) earnings to strike at the Vault, escape with Krojun and anyone else they rescue, and return to get their informtion. (Note, I also usually have Krojun decide to stay and support the rebelion under Kroft.)
It's been a few years since I've had a chance to run this one, but I could throw in a few things that I did. Some of my CotCT advice has been considered pretty good on this forum in the past, so maybe I can help. I'm going off the dome so forgive me if I'm fuzzy on the details.
I have the escape from Korvosa seem like a real escape. I have the Red Mantis ravage Harse if the PCs so much as talk with a townsperson or buy a drink there on the way to Blackbird Ranch. They will see the smoke on the horizon and a survivor can tell the PCs what the attackers were looking for. I harass them with Red Mantis all the way to the Kaer Maga--at least two attacks to show that the queen is serious.
If there isn't a Skar-Klah? (whatever the moon clan with the truthspeakers is) Shoanti PC, I emphasize the need to find a good native scout in Kaer Maga. Feel free to borrow my inn run by a Korvosan expat, The Crimson House, complete with sassy gargoyle above the entrance making fun of everyone in a bad Boston accent. The best scout, the Cinderlander, is currently out on assignment, but they don't want him anyway because he kills Shoanti instead of helping people drop in to say hi. They are going to need an actual Shoanti scout. So far the three times I have run this campaign, Rolth is still alive at this point (if he isn't, you can still bring him back for fun--necromancy being what it is), so I have him try to get his revenge on the party in Kaer Maga as well, celebrating the weirdness of the city along the way.
I like to get them into some deep trouble with a Kaer Maga faction and/or Rolth so that Sial can bail them out. This is a much better meeting than originally written, so that the party has SOME reason to not just kill the evil cleric guy. Sial needs them if he wants to recover the fangs, and he knows it. So he will play nice with the heroes so that he can get what he wants in the long term. I like to use the Havero encounter in the depths of Kaer Maga, since it fits there so well. Usually not with Sial unless they need him to show up and save teh day. I hate Deus Ex Machina in most situations, but if it sets up a questionable alliance with a villain I make exceptions. Normally, I use it as a mission to sooth a faction or to right a wrong or the creature is being awoken from its slumber by Rolth or to get an actual Shoanti scout to help them find the Shoanti truthspeaker clan. Either way, I spend half of this book in Kaer Maga because I love Kaer Maga. City of Strangers is a great book. There are a couple adventures set in Kaer Maga as well to pull from. If you aren't planning on running the Shattered Star AP, there is a Kaer Maga book there to get ideas from for sure.
As they travel the plateau, I have them find signs of the Cinderlander (Shoanti heads on sticks with crossbow bolts in the eyes iirc), whom their scout will speak of the devil tshamek with fear and respect. It makes the last encounter at least a little interesting, at least. I also like a distant red dragon sighting just to get their minds working.
With all of this extra stuff in the beginning, I cut out most of the Shoanti chain quest (well, I move up the havero so that isn't "skipped"). I have them going straight to the moon temple to find a truthseeker and use the Red Reaver encounter as enough to get the Shoanti to be friendly. Because it is cool, I have them do the Cindermaw quest to solidify their worthiness. I skip the other test with the bulettes. So, to get the truthspeaker to help, they just have to kill the Red Reaver and do the Cindermaw thing. I still have Cinnabar show up to die in a few rounds without the players ever learning any of the bajillion words of text written about her (classic Paizo). This way, even if they fail the Cindermaw test, fighting admirably and helping save the Shaonti from a Red Mantis assault get them the assistance anyway and keep the plot moving.
I know the newer version has a disjointed return to Korvosa to free the Grey Maiden dropouts, but I do not like how it was hamfisted in (wasn't there in the original version). I have that event happen in Book 6 when the heroes get back to Korvosa and need to help lead a rebellion against Ileosa. Seems weird to learn of the weapon that will save Korvosa and then go all the way back to the city without it so they can go all the way back to Belkzen.
Anyway, that is what I've got off the top of my head. Hope it inspires!
It's been a few years with me as well, but I rewrote a lot of stuff.
I had a PC who was searching for her sister, so I had her sister be a powerful medium that was taken as a slave across the Storval Plateau and freed by the Shoanti. They recognized her as a blessed of Desna and took her to that Desna temple.
I had the PCs do a couple of sessions in Kaer Maga because it's a fun setting. There I had them meet with Sial and Laori, because I wanted to introduce them before Scarwall.
The PCs then travel to the Plateau to free their friend's sister, who they know is there because of a harrow reading (I think? I forget).
There they get accosted by the Shoanti. They find out that the Sun Shaman has been murdered by the Cinderlander and the Mantis. I wanted to do this because I thought the Red Mantis were cool and I wanted to portray them as dangerous. The Red Mantis has also heard that there was a powerful medium who could channel the spirits of Shoanti ancestors, and wanted to kill her as well. This was, of course, the PC's sister.
I ran most of the rest of the book as normal, except they had to find her sister, then bring her to the end Shoanti town area. I didn't bother with the reputation gain, and cut a few encounters like the wurm and the bullettes.
For the attack on the Gray Maiden dungeon, I did something different too. I thought it was weird that the PCs were expected to teleport back to Korvosa from the Storval Plateau, do this dungeon, and then to back. So I decided that it would make much more sense if the Korvosan rebels did it. I ran it as a side session where I built versions of Cressida Croft, Blackjack, and Trinia Sabor to attack the place, rescue Marcus Endrin (who joined the party) and cleared that dungeon.
In all, my group has a great time with Book 4 and we thought it was one of the better modules in the AP. It was the first one that I made substantial modifications to though.