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Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
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I'm not sure there's value in Paizo offering a PDF subscription, since the point of the print subscription is "to help estimate how many copies of the thing we should print". They entice print subscribers by "you get the PDF version too, when it ships".
The two weeks between when the PDF goes out to subscribers and when it goes out to everybody else are quickly forgotten once everybody can get their hands on the book.
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Makes me really wish they offered a PDF subscription. I don't have the room for a hardback subscription but would pay for a PDF subscription (probably anyway - depending on exact terms).
The point of the subscription is to drive print sales.
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Makes me really wish they offered a PDF subscription. I don't have the room for a hardback subscription but would pay for a PDF subscription (probably anyway - depending on exact terms).
Somebody asks this around every book release, understandably. But Paizo does have good reasons for doing it this way.
First, why have a subscription at all?: Printing and shipping books is expensive. The more you can print, the lower the cost-per-book, but the total is still only going to go up. The unsold books also have to be stored. The thing Paizo needs to know, more than anything, is how many books are going to be sold. Print too few, and you're just leaving money on the table while giving a bad experience. Print too many, and you're throwing money away in extra book costs, valuable warehouse space taken up, etc. Having a subscription goes a long way to solving that problem- not only does it give them some mostly locked-in orders, but they can probably also gauge overall demand by how many people sign up or drop off.
Why does the subscription work the way it does?: There are a few reasons. One is that there does need to be an incentive to subscribing, and that's getting the PDF alongside the hard copy. Otherwise it's cheaper to get it from a local store (which gets its shipping costs spread across several books) or from Amazon (which is still doing shady competition-crushing monopoly building and eating losses for tax write-offs). The PDF goes out when the book ships, which is also when the card is charged, for lots of payment card industry reasons. The early book isn't a promised perk (or even one advertised by Paizo themselves); sometimes it isn't early.
Why no PDF subscription?: First off, there isn't a need for one. From Paizo's side, the consequences for underestimating the popularity of a PDF are... nothing. The consequences for overestimating the popularity are still real, but much smaller in scale than for physical books. From the customer's side, there's no benefit either. Why subscribe when you can buy the PDF instantly? You can "subscribe" by signing up for email alerts for new books, or following their twitter. Secondly, if it had a "get the PDF early incentive", it would cause problems. Sending the PDF when the physical copy ships is something of a side effect. You can still go to your local game store and get a hard copy without the shipping cost tacked on, but if Paizo started selling PDFs earlier for less, local game stores would start dropping Paizo's material because of their practices would cut into sales. It would also tank Paizo's direct physical copy sales, and the less they sell, the more each one has to cost, creating a feedback loop that crushes their ability to print physical copies.
Why does Paizo care about physical copies anyway?: A lot of people like physical copies, so it's good for business to provide for them. It's probably really handy to have versions of the material that can't be pirated practically, and that's doubly true when you're also giving the rules away for free. Plus, shelf space at local game stores is good for bringing in new people. Very few people randomly stumble on Paizo's website, and fewer end up navigating through the digital store. Game stores having the game, and equally important, providing a space to learn and play the game, does a lot for keeping the game alive and growing. (And that's only the self-interested reasons.)
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Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
I know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.
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The two weeks between when the PDF goes out to subscribers and when it goes out to everybody else are quickly forgotten once everybody can get their hands on the book.
Might be. But they are extremely frustrating. And they happen several times a year.
The worst though is being a subscriber and having your books ship after the street date.
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I know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
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There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
I think that falls under the category of "because of credit card payment industry rules". I could be off on some details, but my understanding is that the reason that Paizo doesn't bill anyone's card until the book ships is because of credit card companies rules for subscriptions. (Credit card companies meanwhile have extra rules for subscriptions because there's so much abuse by companies- saw an article that 60% of their chargebacks are related to subscription charges.) And I think it's pretty reasonable to say Paizo can't send a PDF before somebody's actually paid for it. If Paizo charged first and sent the PDF, then shipped the book off, they'd unfortunately probably have a lot of people abuse it by cancelling during that window and getting a refund through their credit card. Under the current model, Paizo could show the credit card company that it has already been shipped.
The end result is that subscribers get their PDFs as early as feasible.
No harm in asking if something you would find better is possible, of course, and maybe it is. For myself, the two-week window of getting details without having the full book yet is an enjoyable way to experience the new content over a longer period, but that's definitely not going to be universal.
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I know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
I've answered this question several time here, on Reddit, and even in Nonat1's video comments. Miscommunication happen, just wish he'd edit his video to explain. The video definitely makes it sound like the PDF is ready for purchase as of today.
I know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
IDK, it feels pretty good to get lucky and get my PDF early. :D
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IDK, it feels pretty good to get lucky and get my PDF early. :DI know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
Guess you have not yet had your books shipping (and thus free pdf becoming available) AFTER the release date and thus after everyone else get to enjoy their product.
Trust me on this, it feels REALLY bad.
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IDK, it feels pretty good to get lucky and get my PDF early. :DI know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
Guess you have not yet had your books shipping (and thus free pdf becoming available) AFTER the release date and thus after everyone else get to enjoy their product.
Trust me on this, it feels REALLY bad.
True, that does suck.
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IDK, it feels pretty good to get lucky and get my PDF early. :DI know that NoNat, mentioned in the book becoming available on the 17th. He knows all about the subscriptions and I’m sure that’s what he meant. We give the reviewers is the release date, but sometimes miscommunications occur. Sorry for that and thanks to everyone else for explaining.Thanks for the explanation. It would be nice if Paizo made sure that the reviewers gave the PDF release date (and not just the subscriber shipping date). The hype worked... until I went to actually look at the book and buy it Monday (and found I can't) - that causes disappointment which is basically the opposite of hype.Ah, the timeless Paizo confusion.
Subscribers - those with a paid subscription to a product line, like Rulebooks or Lost Omens - receive their PDFs when their hard copies ship, as a part of that subscription. Once the hard copies are out for general sale to the public, so too does the PDF go up for purchase.
There’s also a number of streamers given advance copies to drive marketing hype, which is a standard industry practice.
There is a real "feels bad" element to the current subscription model for a lot of customers.
Is there any chance in the future of having digital assets released on a set day instead of in order of shipping?
Guess you have not yet had your books shipping (and thus free pdf becoming available) AFTER the release date and thus after everyone else get to enjoy their product.
Trust me on this, it feels REALLY bad.
Over the years, I've had this happen multiple times. It's not that big of a deal.
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Over the years, I've had this happen multiple times. It's not that big of a deal.
Well, I hate it.
The "Issue" is probably more in the media sphere that surrounds these things. My youtube page starts filling with things, I see people talking about it here, Reddit, Discord, Foundry boards etc.
Some people seem to consistently get things early, I seem to consistently get things late. This is more than likely due to international shipping. I don't have an option to pay more for some sort of express or enhanced shipping, so I end up paying the same as others but consistently get things later than others.
Which is pretty damn irritating.
For local shipping, they (at least used to, I haven't heard that it has changed) rotate what regions get shipped first in order to equalize the "early"/"late" receipt.
However, I think you just identified the problem in the post above, and it's not on Paizo's end.
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Paizo are the only company I've ever had this sort of experience with.
From other subscriptions, to renewing orders, kickstarter, steam early access, digital pre-orders, etc.
There simply has to be a way to square the system so that all customers get treated equally.
Everyone is treated equally: your PDF gets sent when your book ships. This is true for everyone, and physics says they can't simultaneously ship all books at once.
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Everyone is treated equally: your PDF gets sent when your book ships. This is true for everyone, and physics says they can't simultaneously ship all books at once.Paizo are the only company I've ever had this sort of experience with.
From other subscriptions, to renewing orders, kickstarter, steam early access, digital pre-orders, etc.
There simply has to be a way to square the system so that all customers get treated equally.
The treatment is equal if it rotates equally.
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As a subscriber I have received my pdf early in the advance cycle, and I have received my pdf late in the advance cycle. I've even once received my pdf after the book was available on store shelves to the general public.
I get that this can feel frustrating to the people effected negatively by it, but I don't think that a company (any company not just Paizo) should adjust their shipping and release scheme based on what "feels good" to any specific set of customers.
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Corie Marie isn’t the one who brought up the rotation.
Back when I had subs I would get them a lot of times early and a few times after street date, this status has been stated by multiple subscribers over the years.
To be blunt you stated you’re international? Then no I would not expect to get early shipments consistently, or rather (going off a comment a few years ago) they do try to ship international orders “early” so they arrive in a similar timeframe as everyone else receiving their books, but that’s on the shipping and delivery companies.
Your option is if you want to get the PDF on street date is to buy the PDF on street date. Subs getting books “early” has NEVER been a promise or offering of subs. You get a FREE pdf as part of your subscription, that’s the enticement. Hoping for early pdf is just you playing a gamble with yourself.
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You're right, I don't know their exact process, but with 10 years of subscriptions under my belt, I do know there are times where I'm in the very first day of shipments, and months where I'm in the very last day of shipments. Most months I'm somewhere in the middle. That tells me that it's not targeted. Nobody at Paizo is going "I don't like this guy, ship his books last."
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You're right, I don't know their exact process, but with 10 years of subscriptions under my belt, I do know there are times where I'm in the very first day of shipments, and months where I'm in the very last day of shipments. Most months I'm somewhere in the middle. That tells me that it's not targeted. Nobody at Paizo is going "I don't like this guy, ship his books last."
Yeah, but no one was saying there was any sort of prejudical shipping practices going on.
This whole idea of a rotation seems purey fictional, in that its anything more than just a batch shipping process.
My entire point in this, and literally every other time this comes up, is that all subscribers should receive their digital products at the same time, on a set release.
I would like this to be the first day of shipping as that would be nice for everyone. If this is however, somehow, impossible, then I guess it would be at the end of shipping.
We all pay the same, there should not be these massive multi-week swings in the relese of digital assets.
I will also remind people that I simply asked if there was a chance in the future of digital products having a set day for release. Other arguments you are bringing to this are your own.
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I simply concur here.
The fact that a free PDF tied to a subscription can't be delivered on the release date 100% of the time for every customer because mailing a book takes longer makes absolutely zero sense and makes about as much sense as the spaghetti that keeps this entire website running, in fact, I'm convinced that the two things are interlinked, whoever put everything in place is almost certainly not around to uncook the pasta and hiring a new chef to actually do it properly this time around "isn't in the budget" no matter how good the dish turns out or the kind of ratings turnaround the restaurant would see.
That said, the whole subscription method that Paizo runs in the first place is quite unique as well, probably another noodle-type thing, and they would really be best served by offering something akin to what every other industry does these days and offering a slight discount to customers who pre-order and pay in full before they have to actually manufacture the physical product.
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They have actively said, MANY, MANY times that the reason they have to tie it to the shipping is so that people don't receive their free PDF and then cancel their order before it ships.
Setting aside, once again, that other companies solve this issue all the time.
Your point doesn't preclude the possability of having digital asset release once physical shipping has completed.
The ask is that there is a standardised release scheudle for all customers for digital assets. if for some reason Paizo can never change their current billing them, then, sure, that means there won't be "winners" anymore, but it also elimates there being "losers" as well.
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The way the current system works, they handle your whole order at once. Once your payment has cleared and the shipping is heading out the door, you get your pdf. No one has to remember to come back and check your order again later, it is done all at once. If they waited until every single subscription shipped before releasing the pdfs, they’d still have to go back and make sure that everyone who had paid for the book still has an active subscription before releasing the PDFs.
It would probably add another quality assurance check not to make pdfs available at the same time the rest of your order ships.
It is ok for someone to be at the front of the line.
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You're not a "loser" for getting the book a few days late once every couple years.
Old_Man_Robot has stated "I seem to consistently get things late": it's his actual complaint. You seem to be taking your own experience and repeatedly assumed that it's the same experience for everyone. Maybe take him at his word?
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I guess the question is, do you want to pay more ( adding a step to shipping/product release) to wait longer to get your product? Because that is probably how those other companies do it.
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I'm not sure there's value in Paizo offering a PDF subscription, since the point of the print subscription is "to help estimate how many copies of the thing we should print". They entice print subscribers by "you get the PDF version too, when it ships".
The value is that customers don't forget to buy.
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I guess the question is, do you want to pay more ( adding a step to shipping/product release) to wait longer to get your product? Because that is probably how those other companies do it.
Then everyone gets out at near the same time. Yes it would be worth it. We are waiting a long time for most of these releases as it is. It certainly would help online engagement.
Pay more? It is likely cheaper.
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I guess the question is, do you want to pay more ( adding a step to shipping/product release) to wait longer to get your product? Because that is probably how those other companies do it.Then everyone gets out at near the same time. Yes it would be worth it. We are waiting a long time for most of these releases as it is. It certainly would help online engagement.
Pay more? It is likely cheaper.
No it would probably cost more due to needing more employees in order to make sure everything gets shipped out in a smaller timeframe.
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Not having an actual release date for PDFs would mean they couldn't allow their partners to release the products until they have the subscriptions all sent out too. You're not a "loser" for getting the book a few days late once every couple years.You’re inventing things again.
There is no reason for what you said to be true.
Exactly what did I say that wasn't true. The reason they can't give subscribers the PDF earlier than they do is because the systems they use do not allow them to have a way to make sure that people don't cancel an order and still get the free PDF. So they wait for the order to ship to allow the PDF to drop. If they waited until everyone's subs shipped and then said "Okay now anyone can buy the PDF" that punishes anyone who isn't a subscriber by making them wait. It also means that the Foundry, Fantasy Grounds, and Roll20 modules can't be released until every subscriber's copy is sent out, because those also wait until the PDF release date.
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No it would probably cost more due to needing more employees in order to make sure everything gets shipped out in a smaller timeframe.I guess the question is, do you want to pay more ( adding a step to shipping/product release) to wait longer to get your product? Because that is probably how those other companies do it.Then everyone gets out at near the same time. Yes it would be worth it. We are waiting a long time for most of these releases as it is. It certainly would help online engagement.
Pay more? It is likely cheaper.
I don't think Old_Man_Robot is suggesting they change their entire shipping schedule. Dude just wants their PDF. Not something we need to tear them apart for.
Paizo has said before it's more convenient for them not to change things, but it's not unreasonable for consumers to not be super stoked with this weird RNG status quo either.
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I haven’t been given an answer.
I asked someone who worked at Paizo. As of this current moment, no one who works for Paizo have answered.
I asked about the possibility of a future change, not the rationale for the current status quo.
A surprising number of people in this thread seem to have a para-social investment with the billing and shipping methods of this company.