Overun combat maneuver versus phalanx troop subtype

[Rick McAdams]

I have spent several hours searching a very specific answer to indictae whether or not you can use Improved overrun against a phalanx troop, 16 hobgoblins in a 4 x 4 formation in most cases. Troop traits apply, which are very similar to swarm rules.

All of the discussion "hints" that you cannot use improved overrun agains the phalanx. Reasons are; that it can't be used against swarms, and it can only be used against creatures up to one size larger. The phalanx, taking up space as a garganutan creature is more than one size larger. Also, the trooop subtype rules specifically prohibit some combat maneuvers, but it doesn't call out overrun.

Rationally I cannot envision a single medium character using improved overrun to knock a single entity prone (consisting of 16 or more shield locked troop members).

Q: In short, can improved overrun be used against the phalanx troop subtype? I'd appreciate any assistance with this question.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

The troop rules specify what combat maneuvers a troop cannot be subject to, and Overrun isn’t one of them. A huge creature could Overrun a troop of small or medium creatures. Anything smaller could not.

[Diego Rossi]

AoN - Troop subtype wrote:

A single troop occupies a 20-foot-by-20-foot square, equal in size to a Gargantuan creature, though the actual size category of the troop is the same as that of the component creatures. The area occupied by a troop is completely shapeable, though the troop must remain in contiguous squares to accurately reflect the teamwork of trained military units.

As I read it, size doesn't stop you from making an overrun maneuver against a troop, as long as the components creatures have a size that will allow it.

The troops published in the bestiaries have all a size of M o S: troop.

Hobgoblin troop:
LE Medium humanoid (goblinoid, troop)
Space 20 ft., Reach 10 ft.

There is instead a "legs" problem.

AoN - Overrun wrote:

If the target has more than two legs, add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each additional leg it has.

How many legs has a troop? As the single unit or as the whole troop? The monster description doesn't say how many single creatures make it up. A goblin troop has 8 hd, but it is made by, probably, 16-30 goblins.

Not a rule, but considering how RL cavalry charges work, the willingness to allow PCs to do scenographic maneuvers, and the incomplete rules for troops, I would allow the overrun maneuver (as long as the single creature is a valid target) at the standard CMD of the troop, but will not allow the target to be knocked prone.
Essentially, you will be able to pass through the troop, but will not knock down enough people to count the whole troop as knocked down.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

Duh, good catch Diego, insert facepalm emoji here.

[Diego Rossi]

Phoebus Alexandros wrote:

Duh, good catch Diego, insert facepalm emoji here.

This thread has been a good inspiration for me. In the near future, I will play some mass battle scenes, and it was a good start to read again the troop template as I want to change it so that it is more to my taste.

Checking what I want to change I noticed that tidbit.
I too was thinking they are gargantuan-sized before reading it.

[Mysterious Stranger]

One thing to consider about the Phalanx troop type is they have an addition 5 feet of reach. That means that even with improved overrun the attacker will still provoke an AoO for moving out of a threatened square.