https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgU7cWCS_s4
Jason Keeley back from Renegade and goes to PF II as a senior Developer. A very cool youtube chat with interesting insights.
Tom
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His words were: "Within three years we'll probably be talking about Starfinder 2nd edition"
He also said this two days after being rehired at Paizo, still setting up, and being assigned to work on Pathfinder, not Starfinder. So it's probably not a great idea to hang your hat on that.
That being said, I'm excited for the prospect of upcoming Starfinder 2 news and playtesting. Hopefully soon!
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Good to see Jason Keeley.
They start talking about Starfinder at 18 minutes.
The other keywords were that the Starfider team is currently still very small. It sounds like Paizo is putting lots of resources into the Pathfinder remaster project. My guess is once the remaster project is done Paizo will move people like Jason Keeley and John Compton back to Starfinder to help with SF2e. If Paizo going to make SF2e more like PF2r it helps if the remaster of PF2e is done. Another reason is it's not likely a good idea for marketing to have two big system changes at the same time.
I think this will be good for Starfinder it will make Stafinder the most current rule set Paizo has, we won't have a lot of I wish Starfinder was like PF2e anymore. We might even get some PF2e fixes that were too big of a change to fit into Pathfinder remaster.
With the limited info we have, my guess is real full-time work on ST2e won't start until sometime 2024, and then at least a year after that, plus time to play test. So about 3 years, give or take, seems reasonable.
Paizo Cons starts in 17 days hopefully, we hear more then.
Considering that Starfinder was released in 2017 (about 6 years ago), "[w]ithin three years we'll probably be talking about Starfinder 2nd edition" would be about 9 years from publication.
Whether the "talking" means publication or just playtesting Starfinder 2e, 9 years is still a pretty healthy RPG edition lifespan.*
*- unlike some other RPGs I could name
Considering that Starfinder was released in 2017 (about 6 years ago), "[w]ithin three years we'll probably be talking about Starfinder 2nd edition" would be about 9 years from publication.
Whether the "talking" means publication or just playtesting Starfinder 2e, 9 years is still a pretty healthy RPG edition lifespan.*
*- unlike some other RPGs I could name
A bigger issue is the ongoing fallout from the OGL fiasco. One of the primary drivers of the PF2E Remaster is the severing any connection to D&D.
Starfinder still uses a lot of OGL creatures (most prominently Drow). I'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk of an update.
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It's only been three months since we first heard Paizo is looking to address the OGL issue in Starfinder in 2 to 3 years. I'm not surprised we haven't heard anything new yet from Paizo since Starfinder Enhanced doesn't come out until October. Hard to guess what the long-term changes will be when the short-term changes have come out yet. Also, Gen Con is just a few days away if we get any new news, it will like be then, but I'm not expecting much new news until the Pathfinder remaster is done.
As for the drow issue, it's been talked about here.
So what is going to happen to Apostae? .
Altho the Starfinder Reddit has been growing a lot since the OGL disaster, the forum here seems to have slowed down a lot.
Well the first 2 remaster books are done and shipped to the printers and I would think the next 2 are now being worked on, so we are over half way there I beleave.
Once the other 2 books are done internally, then the team might get back to a Starfinder remaster. And I would assume some PF II team help for that as well (IF we get what most assume the way it will go, remaster within 2 years then a SF II in about 4 years) I think that might go a different route honestly but I'm in the minority at the moment.
I'm still sticking to a remaster = Starfinder 2nd Edition myself as I really don't want to rebuy all the books 2 times might not sit to well with the fan base, plus Erics comment on 3 action economy coming to Starfinder but nothing to annouce yet officially a few months ago, but we will see.
Hoping GENCON will shed some light, 50/50 at best though I think.
Tom
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I also think remaster = Starfinder 2nd Edition. The PF2e rules were already OGL-free. That's not the case with Starfinder, so a new version makes sense. That fits the 2 to 3-year timeline I had heard about. Being that it's still years off, I'm still excited to see what we get in Starfinder Enhanced.
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So they just announced Starfinder 2e in the GenCon keynote. It will be based on Pathfinder Remaster!
Three action economy comes to space!
Should prove to be an interesting playtest!
Goodbye, Drow. It was fun.
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Ha, toldya that SF Enhanced means SF2 is around the corner. Always bet on the bag people, always bet on the bag.
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I don't think that was quite what happened, honestly. It really feels like this is still fallout from the OGL debacle
Also, really excited to see this get built out more. I really want to see some power armor rules soon.
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Sure, OGL was the main driver, but it also means we can now have Gatling Laser Cannons in Brevoy and Leshy Kineticist in Pact Worlds, killing many birds with one stone, including the "rules for scifi items for PF2 when?" one.
I'm not really interested in a Soldier that's balanced against a Pf2E Gunslinger (why wouldn't I just play the Gunslinger?), so I hope that they don't in fact go down the route of treating Starfinder like a glorified PF2e splat. Still, I'm sure there'll be more than enough time to tell them what I think when they playtest is released.
Goodbye, Drow. It was fun.
That may not be the case for Space Drow.
There are enough differences between them and the original Lolth maternal theocracy that D&D has where they have a reasonable claim to them being their own creation. You can’t copyright a name and WotC / Hasbro never trademarked Drow.
Copyright is limited on what is protected. I feel there are a lot more differences between the D&D Drow and Starfinder Drow than there are between say Donald Duck and Daffy Duck.
Sure, OGL was the main driver, but it also means we can now have Gatling Laser Cannons in Brevoy and Leshy Kineticist in Pact Worlds, killing many birds with one stone, including the "rules for scifi items for PF2 when?" one.
This also solves many problems with converting IRON GODS. Or, more likely, enabling an sequel.
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How many times can a starship crash on Golarion, c'mon :D
Demiplane will also be hosting the Playtest and Stafinder 2nd edition when it is officially launched.
VERY NICE, now I just need Roll20 to do the same, but god knows.....
Tom
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I'm not really interested in a Soldier that's balanced against a Pf2E Gunslinger (why wouldn't I just play the Gunslinger?), so I hope that they don't in fact go down the route of treating Starfinder like a glorified PF2e splat. Still, I'm sure there'll be more than enough time to tell them what I think when they playtest is released.
Trying to be 1 to 1 compatible means this game will definitely just be a PF2e supplement line that is in Space, rather than a SF2e.
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I'm not really interested in a Soldier that's balanced against a Pf2E Gunslinger (why wouldn't I just play the Gunslinger?), so I hope that they don't in fact go down the route of treating Starfinder like a glorified PF2e splat. Still, I'm sure there'll be more than enough time to tell them what I think when they playtest is released.Trying to be 1 to 1 compatible means this game will definitely just be a PF2e supplement line that is in Space, rather than a SF2e.
There's a big difference between compatible and dependent on. As long as either PF2e or SF2e are separate games, not dependent on each other, then they are both supplements to the other. This could create a new supplement line of time travel crossover APs and adventures.
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Massively increases the value of 3rd party content, which can be marketed for two different systems.
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That may not be the case for Space Drow.
We can hope, but so far in the past 8 months Paizo has chosen a hatchet when a scalpel would do. So I'm pessimistic.
Trying to be 1 to 1 compatible means this game will definitely just be a PF2e supplement line that is in Space, rather than a SF2e.
That's my main concern. Unless they're going to change Starfinder so that its casters are "full" casters instead of the half-caster design decision they made very early on, nobody's going to play a Mystic or Technomancer when they could play a Wizard or Cloistered Cleric.
Also -- flying is reserved for levels 16-20 in Pathfinder 2e. You can buy a jetpack at level 3 in Starfinder. How they'll reconcile that, I don't know, but if the solution is to make jetpacks a high level item...again, I think I'll stick with the game where I can buy a jetpack at level 3.
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Coming from the PF2 side of the house... I honestly expect that the Mystics and Technomancers will be better designed than the Wizards and Cloistered Clerics. If anything, I expect that we'll see people wanting to poach in the other direction. Pretty much regardless of how much casting ability they have, I think we can trust that they'll look pretty good when compared to their PF2 peers.
There has been an obvious arc in PF2 classes, going from the first rigid, restricted, stumbling steps with the core classes to the much more interesting, flexible, and delightfully well-balanced psychic, thaumaturge, and kineticist. That's all about institutional knowledge. They have a game balance paradigm that they've been using this entire time, and they've now gotten to the point where they're really hitting their stride on it... and you all over in StarFinder land get to enjoy the benefits of that from the beginning.
Now, you are likely to lose some of the weird cool stuff coming from your ancestries, but you'll get at least parts of that back in ancestry feats, and... well, it's not like the Selamid have the full set of ooze immunities even now, right?
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A big part of what turned me off from pf2 was taking out the things the ancestry did , and giving it back over 10 levels as a bonus ability. Thats... not really an ability.
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I see this creating 3 options on how to play or mix SF and PF. This is really up to each table to decide.
1: Either just play Starfinder or Pathfinder.
2: Limited time travel: Create characters from one game's classes, species, tech, and magic, and then travel to the other.
3: Time travel is common, freely use anything.
Because keeping the lore straight for time travel would get complicated really fast I think Paizo will likely make it optional, and not the default way to play either game is my guess.
Hm. I wonder how the Gap would affect these time travel options.
That's my main concern. Unless they're going to change Starfinder so that its casters are "full" casters instead of the half-caster design decision they made very early on, nobody's going to play a Mystic or Technomancer when they could play a Wizard or Cloistered Cleric.
I can't see anyway to make them comptabile without making all casters full casters.
And while they are interchangeable mechanically, that doesn't mean that any given GM is going to allow you to play a wizard or cleric in his starfinder game.
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A big part of what turned me off from pf2 was taking out the things the ancestry did , and giving it back over 10 levels as a bonus ability. Thats... not really an ability.
Jenny J said that in SF2 ancestries with wings will be flying from level 1, so at least some of this stuff will be handled differently because of different setting assumptions.
Hm. I wonder how the Gap would affect these time travel options.I think the gap prevents a need for the Modrenfinder game to bridge the two. My guess is the gap also stops time travel to the time during the gap.
Time travelers traveling into the gap is how they populated absolom station after the gap?
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Time travelers traveling into the gap is how they populated absolom station after the gap?Hm. I wonder how the Gap would affect these time travel options.I think the gap prevents a need for the Modrenfinder game to bridge the two. My guess is the gap also stops time travel to the time during the gap.
If it was that information was also lost during the gap.
There's a big difference between compatible and dependent on. As long as either PF2e or SF2e are separate games, not dependent on each other, then they are both supplements to the other. This could create a new supplement line of time travel crossover APs and adventures.
To a degree, but Pathfinder 2e is already out and has been out for years and Starfinder 2e is limited in how it can configure itself if it wants to be 100% compatible with Pathfinder. There is only so many things they can change, without breaking the compatibility, so Starfinder will never be able to be designed as it's own game, it will always be designed with "Hmm will this break anything in Pathfinder" as part of the decision process.
I can't see anyway to make them comptabile without making all casters full casters.
And while they are interchangeable mechanically, that doesn't mean that any given GM is going to allow you to play a wizard or cleric in his starfinder game.
Doesn't matter if not all GMs will, they are designing assuming people will. They mention it in the field test and they already stole the knees from the soldier as a result to prevent overlap with Fighter.
But yeah, the casters will probably be either full casters now or wavecasters.
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Also -- flying is reserved for levels 16-20 in Pathfinder 2e. You can buy a jetpack at level 3 in Starfinder. How they'll reconcile that, I don't know, but if the solution is to make jetpacks a high level item...again, I think I'll stick with the game where I can buy a jetpack at level 3.
What’s there to reconcile?
You get flight early and it’s expected in Starfinder, you get it later on in Pathfinder. Just because they’re compatible systems doesn’t change that.