Please help me make sense of the Scorched Hand

[Red Heat]

See the title. I'm gearing up for running Mummy’s Mask and overall I like what I see. Fun dungeon-tombs and all the sand drenched fantasy-Egypt flavour a GM can ask for. It’s good stuff, far better than might be anticipated for one of Paizo’s lesser played APs. Kudos to the authors.

But I’m having trouble with the Scorched Hand, the rival adventuring group in the first part. Specifically the trouble is with the finale, and more specifically how they are the finale. The AP proposes a big ol’ fight to the death as the climax and I cannot for the life of me imagine how this is supposed to go down. The problem I’m having is the discrepancy between how the SH is portrayed vs their actions vs how the AP assumes the PCs will act.

Why oh why would the SH try to kill the PCs in the finale or indeed any part of the game? As portrayed, these are not battle hardened murder-hobos for whom violence is the first solution to any problem. On the contrary, the AP does a wonderful job of humanizing the group! Several pages are dedicated to exploring the members, even specifying that some might very well turn rogue and help the PCs. On the whole the SH consist of just college kids out on their sabbatical year, traveling about to explore their one very niche, very nerdy pet topic. Never mind murder-hobos, the SH are one animal companion short of being the Scooby-Doo gang! Alright, so their Velma is a bit cold, but I still can’t see how to justify them attempting murder. Especially over exploration rights to the already ransacked temple to a god half of them don’t even follow.

And this is where their bizarre motivation intersects with the bizarre motivation the AP expects of the PCs. Why would the PCs fight them? Not only does the SH fighting the PCs not make sense to me, the opposite holds true too. All the SH wants to do is check out this one temple. Take some etchings of hieroglyphs, write down some texts, utterly harmless academic stuff. Why would the PCs oppose this? Even if we assume the PCs to be uncharitable, I can’t imagine my own players (nor most players) denying the SH this if they just got some cold hard dosh for their trouble. Heck, money is even largely what the AP assumes the PCs are here for. The entire finale of the AP is invalidated by a 45 second conversation. “Hey, Mr/Ms PC, could we maybe look through your exploration site? Heck, we’ll forego to right to our own site and hand it to you.”

Would this be against the rules for the venture as set out by the Pharasmins? Yes, but seeing as they have seemingly no way to enforce these rules, I can’t imagine player and non-player characters having a problem with it. What am I missing here? How did you justify the PCs vs SH finale in your own game? And thanks in advance for any insight.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

I ran it like this:

SH motivation is religious righteousness, the end justifies the means. They believe the thing they are after belongs to their god (or at least their church) and they are entitled to it, whatever the law of the land says. Their leader is definitely the cold-hearted one and I ran the rest as going along with what she says despite their misgivings. Vel has no qualms lying to the others to make them do what she wants in the manner so while the rest of the SH and the PCs might have been able to come to an agreement, Vel thinks the most expedient thing to do is just try to sneak in either before or after the PCs and take the Mask as quickly and quietly as possible, eliminating the PCs if necessary. (and technically only one of the SH isn't Nethysian, though the level of devotion of the other three was varied)

In my game the PC assumed the SH were up to no good when he found them sneaking around 'his' dungeon and started blasting without trying to talk first, which is rather unusual for the player.

The AP obviously assumes that the PCs will turn down Vel when she asks to swap with them, for whatever reason. I suspect most players would do so because they are canny enough to understand a plot hook when it's dangled in front of their face in that manner, and so would hopefully go along with the story to make things easier for the GM. I may be spoiled by my players in this regard, however.

[Warped Savant]

Velriana had already petitioned the Grand Mausoleum to explore the Erudite Eye and had been denied. After the first sites had been assigned to the many groups there she started asking anyone and everyone around if they had heard of it or had it assigned to them, which would make the PCs think it's at least somewhat important or that it possibly holds something valuable. (See top of page 21)
The Eurdite Eye is important to the Scorched Hand and therefore they likely think that whichever group gets it will want to keep it for themselves, because, really, in real life when something is important to someone they often think it's important to everyone.
If you play through the group being asked about the Erudite Eye before it's assigned to them, and have Velriana come across as a bit aggressive / entitled / unlikable they likely (hopefully) won't want to trade it to the Scorched Hand when it's assigned to them, especially if the PCs hype themselves up that there must be something important there since this NPC wants it so badly and believe that it's her's by right.
Maybe after it's assigned to the group have Velriana approach them again but have her demand that the group changes sites with her. She's too spoiled / entitled to think that the group would willingly trade with her.
Velriana has worked herself up so much that the Grand Mausoleum didn't give her the site, and that the PCs refused to give it to her, she believes that it's hers and that it must hold something important to her god... she sees no other way to keep it for herself other than attacking the group and killing them because, if they survive, the PCs could just go to the Grand Mausoleum and have her locked up and then officials would thoroughly go through the site on their own. (Remember, NPCs don't know what the rest of the world is doing and can therefore act on false information.)
As for the rest of the Scorched Hand, Velriana has either worked them up to this point as well by having them slowly break more and more rules (trying to get access to the site after the Grand Mausoleum already said no, hiring thugs to attack the group, breaking into the Euridite Eye). So they're caught up in the storm of it all, and the emotions of Velriana (and possibly afraid of her), so then when the PCs show up they feel like attacking is the only option, not really realizing that it could become a fight to the death.

That all being said, the PCs could 100% befriend the Scorched Hand, let them take what they want, and then you can do what you want with the Scorched Hand in book 2. Do they survive? Do they get in over their heads and the PCs have to save them? Are the PCs saved by the Scorched Hand?

BOOK 3 & 4 SPOILERS:

Do the Scorched Hand and the PCs work together only to have Velriana turn on all of them when she finds out about the heart in Sothis in book 3, go there via a scroll of teleport and have her become the villain of book 4? (Wait, no, the cultists have been around for too long for that to work.... Change that to "...only to have Velriana turn on all of them when she finds out about the heart in Sothis in book 3, go there via a scroll of teleport and have her chasing a dead end?")

It's all up to you!

EDIT: Velriana is LE, she thinks the temple is hers by right and won't let anyone stand in her way of that.

[Red Heat]

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen, well put and well meant as they are. I admit to still be struggling a bit, but the notion of playing up the importance of the temple early on so that the PCs won't hand it over is a good one. Heck, I can see some fun in the PCs and the SH actually getting on fine initially right up until the latter finds out that they drew the temple, whereupon Velriana turns antagonistic. Might deepen the PCs' curiosity about the place.

[Warped Savant]

And remember, players don't often notice plotholes like "why would these people sneak in and then try to kill us instead of asking us to trade it to them?"
But when they do, "because it's a better story that way" is a perfectly suitable answer, assuming people are playing in order to have fun.

[FamiliarMask]

Red Heat wrote:

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen, well put and well meant as they are. I admit to still be struggling a bit, but the notion of playing up the importance of the temple early on so that the PCs won't hand it over is a good one. Heck, I can see some fun in the PCs and the SH actually getting on fine initially right up until the latter finds out that they drew the temple, whereupon Velriana turns antagonistic. Might deepen the PCs' curiosity about the place.

IMO, Velriana is presented as an arrogant, entitled noblewoman and religious zealot from the moment the PCs meet her, vocally criticizing the Church of Pharasma for not giving her group the site they want, and trying to get other groups to give it to her anyway, despite being officially refused.

The others are more pleasant, but clearly follow her lead. Khelru is even more devout and a true believer that the site should be rightfully theirs. Azaz doesn't care as much, but he loves Khelru and will do what makes him happy. Idorii doesn't really care at all, but she's Velriana's hireling and is paid to protect her and do her bidding.

When Velriana decides to poach the site anyway, she hires thugs to ambush whoever is rightfully assigned the site. Assuming the PCs find this out from their attackers, they should probably not be feeling friendly when they confront the Scorched Hand.

And the thing is, the Hand don't want to just explore the site. They want to claim it and its knowledge and treasures. They've already looted much of the place before the PCs get there. All those scrolls and wands and such in their equipment likely came from the Sanctum.

And Velriana, at least, isn't willing to share. She should turn any encounter into a fight, unless the PCs totally capitulate and just leave.

I just ran through this with my current group, and they took a dislike to Velriana early, discovered she'd set people to ambush them, reported the ambush to the Church of Pharasma, and went in looking to bring the claim-jumpers to justice.

In the end, the PCs dominated the fight, Idorii surrendered rather than dying, and when Khelru went down Azaz surrendered as well to try to save his life. Velriana cursed them all for traitors and fought to the death, and after she was down the PCs accepted the surrender of the others and decided to explore the rest of the place with their aid, before taking their stuff and letting them go.

If your group is the type that would approach the Scorched Hand and offer to trade sites when they get the Sanctum, you could have the Church of Pharasma step in and prevent it.

Alternately, you could let them take the Hand's site, which you would have to invent for yourself, and then you'd have to figure out some way to get your PCs reconnected with the rest of the adventure path. Maybe in book 2 the Hand approach the PCs asking for help and presenting the info needed to connect the undead uprising with the missing Mask from the Sanctum.

Doesn't seem worth the extra work to me, though...

[Morhek]

When my players interacted with the Scorched Hand in the Tooth and Hookah, they initially didn't think they were any different from the other adventurers in the bar. I ran a side-quest that briefly involved them where the players tried to persuade them to help out, but their reluctance left a lasting impression. When they finally ran into the Scorched Hand in the catacombs, they'd already used a bit of divination to be warned that they were waiting, and when they ambushed I made the mistake of splitting them up. I should have had them bunched together, Khelru and Idorii in the frontlines - Idorii as the DPS, Khelru as the tank healing himself and Idorii, with Azaz and Velriana supporting from behind with ranged spells. But because I split them, the party were able to take them apart fairly easily. The Scorched Hand aren't interested in murdering the party, though Velriana would be happy if some of them died as "self-defence," but they need them contained until they can find what they came for and leave town, where the Grand Mausoleum can't reach them. Ideally they would retreat to Tephu, where they assume the Nethysians in charge will be unlikely to be sympathetic to having to hand over some of their own for recovering Nethysian artefacts from looters (not knowing Deka An-Keret would also be horrified at the mask being found, and confiscate it if she could).

What I wish I had done was try to explore the non-combat avenues of negotiating with them. The AP presents ways to get into their good graces through conversation and persuasion, but not much opportunity to figure those out. I would have made the party stay at the Tooth and Hookah rather than let them choose their own places, and had them be neighbours before they got the Sanctum of the Sacrosanct Eye, with the occasional interaction - Azaz confiding his concerns about Velriana, Idorii at the bar confiding she's just a hired hand after a few drinks, etc. - and then when the party encountered them they could have a basis to talk it out.