negotiations DCs


Kingmaker Second Edition


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(sidebar, pg. 519) wrote:

NEGOTIATION DCS

Certain Leadership activities (Establish Trade Agreement, Pledge of Fealty, Request Foreign Aid, Send Diplomatic Envoy) allow a kingdom to attempt checks to negotiate with other groups. The following list provides DCs for these checks for groups the PCs are likely to encounter. Feel free to adjust them up or down to represent the actions of the PCs: an adjustment of +2 or –2 is a good place to start if the PCs have been particularly friendly or antagonistic to a group. Should the PCs seek relations with a group not listed here, such as a new Freehold, use these DCs as examples to generate DCs of your own.

Candlemere Lizardfolk: DC 22
Fort Drelev: DC 30
Greengripe: DC 24
M’botuu: DC 32
Nomen Centaurs: DC 26
Pitax: DC 28
Rostland: DC 15
Sootscale Kobolds: DC 20
Tiger Lords: DC 36
Tok-Nikrat: DC 18
Varnhold: DC 12

I see Rostland, but I do not see an entry for Brevoy (and/or Issia/New Stetvan).

I also expected to see Mivon listed here, since they are practically a neighbor already, in addition to sharing a border with Pitax.

Also, since Drelev and Pitax are scripted to become enemies, when will they void any existing diplomatic and/or trade agreements with the PCs? Or will any such pre-existing relations change the script of the AP? ;-)

On another note...

To help other players and GMs, here is the same list from above, but in numerical order:

DC 12, Varnhold
DC 15, Rostland
DC 18, Tok-Nikrat
DC 20, Sootscale Kobolds
DC 22, Candlemere Lizardfolk
DC 24, Greengripe
DC 26, Nomen Centaurs
DC 28, Pitax
DC 30, Fort Drelev
DC 32, M’botuu
DC 36, Tiger Lords

Hope this helps.

Franklin

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We didn't include areas like Brevoy or Mivon that don't actually have strong elements in the plot of the adventure, but there's hopefully enough values and different options that ARE listed there that a GM can use those numbers as guidelines for setting negotiation DCs for other groups that, in their game, are more important.

As for those that void existing diplomatic or trade agreements, that happens when those events begin in the adventure. Timing it to a calendar forces adventures to happen earlier or later than they would, so those things need to be organic when they develop.

Sovereign Court

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I understand them being left out but I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I know I plan on including them.


VanceMadrox wrote:
... I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I'd *love* to see the results of a poll for this. ;-)

I presume that, if any one has that ability on these forums, it would be Mr. Jacobs or other staff at Paizo.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

VanceMadrox wrote:

I understand them being left out but I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I know I plan on including them.

The book was already 640 pages long. That's big... but it can't include everything. Part of creating a published adventure is deciding what not to include, and that decision is REALLY tough in a lot of cases... but not as tough as it would be without the knowledge that if a GM running the adventure wants, they can include the "missing" content. So we try to do our best to provide enough context to help.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

FWCain wrote:
VanceMadrox wrote:
... I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I'd *love* to see the results of a poll for this. ;-)

I presume that, if any one has that ability on these forums, it would be Mr. Jacobs or other staff at Paizo.

That sort of thing isn't really something I have the time or bandwidth to do or manage.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
VanceMadrox wrote:

I understand them being left out but I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I know I plan on including them.

The book was already 640 pages long. That's big... but it can't include everything. Part of creating a published adventure is deciding what not to include, and that decision is REALLY tough in a lot of cases... but not as tough as it would be without the knowledge that if a GM running the adventure wants, they can include the "missing" content. So we try to do our best to provide enough context to help.

For sure. That seems like an easy cut when the AP's focus isn't actually on Brevoy. Not every group will want Brevoy Politics in their game.

And homebrewing Negotiation DCs is easy enough.


Just for fun, if any one would care to post their thoughts on appropriate Negotiation DCs for these other groups, and why you chose those specific numbers, I would love to read your ideas.

Thanks,
Franklin


James Jacobs wrote:
That sort of thing isn't really something I have the time or bandwidth to do or manage.

Understood, sir. ;-)

Need to get new stuff printed and shipped, after all.
(Bills to pay, etc.)

Thank you for your response. ^_^
Franklin


Vance, could you share the negotiation DCs you use?
I'm not what I should use for the houses of Brevoy and the churches.
I've used your venture capital BTW. Amazing stuff :)

Sovereign Court

Glad you liked the Venture Capital stuff, It was fun to write and my group had a whole session with it that they loved.

I still haven't sat down to hash out Negotiation DCs but probably should.


We had like 3 sessions with it. Was super fun.
I have some issues with the negotiation DC - having it too high will make trading almost impossible, but having it reasonable now will make it always crit later on :/
I'm thinking about having it use the Control DC with modifiers based on the other party and their relations (easy, hard, etc.)


James Jacobs wrote:
FWCain wrote:
VanceMadrox wrote:
... I think the majority of campaigns will want negotiation DCs for at least the Brevoy houses and Mivon.

I'd *love* to see the results of a poll for this. ;-)

I presume that, if any one has that ability on these forums, it would be Mr. Jacobs or other staff at Paizo.

That sort of thing isn't really something I have the time or bandwidth to do or manage.

That’s perfectly understandable. This is by far the most fun AP I’ve ever run and I’ve definitely had to make a lot of homebrew changes. But that’s part of running an AP. Thank you for making this.

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